The coaching staff deserves some blame but...

[AZOrange]

You don't think that what the opposing coaches were doing didn't vastly contribute to the confusion we saw? Pen st has much more then average talent and depth isn't a factor in game one as we saw. Obrien is highly regarded as a top notch coach. 3 To 1 pen st to SU fan ratio 5 hrs away from Syracuse is a road game. The offense couldn't hear a thing.

Not really no. Signaling from the sideline is not difficult. Again if we can't get plays in on the road and at neutral sites we should just give up. It's poor prep plain and simple. And its not like we played Bama and Michigan...

 

[CuseLegacy]

Forget the SEC scheduling cupcakes just look around the ACC. With the exception of a handful of teams most of the schools have played cupcakes the first week and some two weeks. Presbyterian, Middle TN, Memphis, SC State, Wofford, ODU, and that powerhouse Elon just to name a few. Now most of the conference is at least 1-1 if not 2-0 . Syracuse definitely needs to rethink how they schedule.

 

[tbonezone]

i'm not buying a ticket to watch elon. ever.

 

[SaltineWar]

Read this: http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2013/08/frazier_trying_to_get_syracuse.html

 

[Alsacs]

I am not upset we lost I am more upset at how we have looked. The offense has talent and has looked like crap for the Penn State game and the first of the NU game. The defense played really well versus a true Freshman QB making his first start and was completely dismantled by NU. This schedule isn't ridiculous it may not be advantageous for a program in transition but its not like Georgia playing @Clemson and South Carolina the first two weeks. I realize we aren't UGA and not even in the same league, but the team has looked like crap in the first two games and I think that falls on the coaching staff as this team isn't barren of talent. I realize the QB situation isn't what you would want, but that doesn't mean we should look so disorganized on offense.

 

[sufandu]

I'm just not sure about that. I think the "fans" do show up regardless of the opponent. The other folks are not fans. We need more fans.

It all depends on how you define fans. The biggest difference between CNY and the south is that people that know nothing about sports care about "their team", especially football. It's a culture that doesn't exist in the north east, and you can't understand it unless you live amongst it. Btw, I don't necessarily think it's a good thing.

 

[All4SU]

It all depends on how you define fans. The biggest difference between CNY and the south is that people that know nothing about sports care about "their team", especially football. It's a culture that doesn't exist in the north east, and you can't understand it unless you live amongst it. Btw, I don't necessarily think it's a good thing.

I understand it perfectly. We don't have 50,000 "fans" in close proximity of syracuse who are willing to go to the games win or lose. We have 25,000 to 35,000 of those fans. The others who show up from time to time are not fans. They may BECOME fans. But at present they are not.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I am not upset we lost I am more upset at how we have looked. The offense has talent and has looked like crap for the Penn State game and the first of the NU game. The defense played really well versus a true Freshman QB making his first start and was completely dismantled by NU. This schedule isn't ridiculous it may not be advantageous for a program in transition but its not like Georgia playing @Clemson and South Carolina the first two weeks. I realize we aren't UGA and not even in the same league, but the team has looked like crap in the first two games and I think that falls on the coaching staff as this team isn't barren of talent. I realize the QB situation isn't what you would want, but that doesn't mean we should look so disorganized on offense.

But that is part of the reason for scheduling cupcakes. It gives the team a chance to work out the problems, to see what does and doesn't work and still win games.

 

[sufandu]

I understand it perfectly. We don't have 50,000 "fans" in close proximity of syracuse who are willing to go to the games win or lose. We have 25,000 to 35,000 of those fans. The others who show up from time to time are not fans. They may BECOME fans. But at present they are not.

Knoxville, Tennessee doesn't have 100,000 fans that show up to every game either. They have around 50,000 that are diehard 20,000-30,000 that aren't diehards but still go on a regular basis and another 30,000 that couldn't tell you who 5 starters are on offense but go because it's what you do here. They had over 97,000 for the Austin Peay game after finishing with a losing record last year, 1 win in the SEC, losing there starting QB and having their top two receivers drafted high in the NFL draft. Oh, and I know people that bought the pay-per-view broadcast for $40. People in CNY wouldn't pay $40 for the Wagner game if SU opened with them.

Last year in their second to last game of the year having already lost 8 games and being winless in the SEC, Auburn drew over 74,000 people when they played Alabama A&M. Not Alabama, that was the next week. Alabama A&M. The population of Auburn, Alabama is only 54,000 and they play second fiddle in their own state.

The fact that you're even debating this proves you don't understand the culture down here.

 

[All4SU]

Knoxville, Tennessee doesn't have 100,000 fans that show up to every game either. They have around 50,000 that are diehard 20,000-30,000 that aren't diehards but still go on a regular basis and another 30,000 that couldn't tell you who 5 starters are on offense but go because it's what you do here. They had over 97,000 for the Austin Peay game after finishing with a losing record last year, 1 win in the SEC, losing there starting QB and having their top two receivers drafted high in the NFL draft. Oh, and I know people that bought the pay-per-view broadcast for $40. People in CNY wouldn't pay $40 for the Wagner game if SU opened with them.

Last year in their second to last game of the year having already lost 8 games and being winless in the SEC, Auburn drew over 74,000 people when they played Alabama A&M. Not Alabama, that was the next week. Alabama A&M. The population of Auburn, Alabama is only 54,000 and they play second fiddle in their own state.

The fact that you're even debating this proves you don't understand the culture down here.

For some reason you want to argue with someone who is agreeing with you. Maybe that's a southern thing too.

 

[wfschrec]

The majority of the SEC schedules fluff for the first week or two 3 out of 4 years. We schedule legit teams the first two games 3 out of 4 years. Hard to recruit when we have a half empty Dome every year on display because of this scheduling philosophy.

Yet Bama opens with VT and UGA goes back to back with top 10s in Clemson and SC ... the problem is and will always be a very weak minded fan base. And for a team like UGA or even a Kentucky they sell out ... hell UK sold out their Kent St game last year ... as far as I am concerned we can schedule the heavies or the cupcakes it doesn't matter ... our fan base is as fickle as the day is long.

 

[wfschrec]

Knoxville, Tennessee doesn't have 100,000 fans that show up to every game either. They have around 50,000 that are diehard 20,000-30,000 that aren't diehards but still go on a regular basis and another 30,000 that couldn't tell you who 5 starters are on offense but go because it's what you do here. They had over 97,000 for the Austin Peay game after finishing with a losing record last year, 1 win in the SEC, losing there starting QB and having their top two receivers drafted high in the NFL draft. Oh, and I know people that bought the pay-per-view broadcast for $40. People in CNY wouldn't pay $40 for the Wagner game if SU opened with them.

Last year in their second to last game of the year having already lost 8 games and being winless in the SEC, Auburn drew over 74,000 people when they played Alabama A&M. Not Alabama, that was the next week. Alabama A&M. The population of Auburn, Alabama is only 54,000 and they play second fiddle in their own state.

The fact that you're even debating this proves you don't understand the culture down here.

Dude I now live 30 mins from Athens, GA and you are right on!

 

[Upstate]

I can't believe no one's started a "Fire Will Hicks!" thread yet.

 

[Alsacs]

But that is part of the reason for scheduling cupcakes. It gives the team a chance to work out the problems, to see what does and doesn't work and still win games.

We could have played Northwestern the 2nd game, 3rd game, or 4th game and they would have housed us any week. It wasn't talent why we lost our team was completely out-prepared and was dissected during the first half and then NU shut it down and coasted in the 2nd half. Our best chance to beat Penn State was week 1. They were starting a true Freshman QB in a neutral field game. Our defense looked great against a true freshman making his first start and if the coaching staff could get the freaking plays calls we could have and should have won that game. If we played Penn State week 2, week 3, week 4 and Hackenberg has more experience we had less of a chance to win. In college football you are suppose to see the most improvement from week 1 to week 2 and we did not show improvement. If we started with Wagner, Tulane we still end up 2-2.

 

[CuseOnly]

Yet Bama opens with VT and UGA goes back to back with top 10s in Clemson and SC ... the problem is and will always be a very weak minded fan base. And for a team like UGA or even a Kentucky they sell out ... hell UK sold out their Kent St game last year ... as far as I am concerned we can schedule the heavies or the cupcakes it doesn't matter ... our fan base is as fickle as the day is long.

Big difference here is that Bama is in the race for the National Championship and needs that strength of schedule. Are we in the same position? Not anywhere near, and until we are, the schedule should not include top 20 teams. Sign me up for 1 FCS and 2 MAC and 1 lower tier FBS (AAC, Vandy, etc.) Until we consistently are in bowl games and getting recruiting back to where we should be. We are playing Clemson and FSU every year now for Pete's sake, that is enough top tier teams to play every year.

Fans will come with wins and the casual fan does not know or care who they played to get them because most of them (casual fans) don't have any idea how bad/not bad the teams we play are.

Will be a very hard sell to get them to the dome with an 0-2 record even if we lost to Alabama and LSU. 2-0 against Ohio University and Temple look way better, looks like undefeated to me.

 

[wfschrec]

Big difference here is that Bama is in the race for the National Championship and needs that strength of schedule. Are we in the same position? Not anywhere near, and until we are, the schedule should not include top 20 teams. Sign me up for 1 FCS and 2 MAC and 1 lower tier FBS (AAC, Vandy, etc.) Until we consistently are in bowl games and getting recruiting back to where we should be. We are playing Clemson and FSU every year now for Pete's sake, that is enough top tier teams to play every year.

Fans will come with wins and the casual fan does not know or care who they played to get them because most of them (casual fans) don't have any idea how bad/not bad the teams we play are.

Will be a very hard sell to get them to the dome with an 0-2 record even if we lost to Alabama and LSU. 2-0 against Ohio University and Temple look way better, looks like undefeated to me.

And per my example Kentucky is not in the title hunt ... ever ... and they pack the house for their games ... the only SEC team that doesn't is Vandy ... I would rather watch SU play PSU tight and run the risk of losing by 6 to a name program then pull the same crap RU does and pound on Norfolk St. every year ... because even when Cuse is winning no one shows up to watch games against Maine, Wagner or Colgate. Which brings me back to my original point ... our fan base is a joke. So what we play Clemson and FSU each year ... win the rest you are 10-2 (if you lose two tough OOC you are 8-4) and there is no reason what so ever that we can't put a competitive product out there with respect to the rest of the division. And that is assuming there are years you are not good enough to beat a Clemson or FSU when in the past we have been so I really don't buy that argument.

And believe me an SEC team that has title hopes doesn't need to schedule for a tough OOC ... you do realize their in-conference slate plus winning an SEC title game is more than enough ... frankly it is a bigger risk for them to play those games like a Clemson or VT. You guys want to sit here on this board and paste them and say they don't play anyone then complain when we actually play a viable OOC slate ... we aren't a selector school ... we have to take the games we can get ... its not like teams are lining up throwing their hands in the air saying ... "Play us ... Play us" we aren't a big revenue draw ... I am not sure why you cannot figure that out.

 

[Lou_C]

You can argue whether you LIKE the fact, but it's not an open question...scheduling so difficult is NOT a road to success. Scheduling 3 near-sure wins, and one challenge-but-winnable game is the formula. It's been proven that's what works over and over again in the last 25 years, and the opposite hasn't worked for anyone trying to build their program to the next level.

Pretty much every school that has cupcaked their way to a consistent top-20 level has seen a big increase in attendence. Scheduling yourself for 4-6 win seasons every year, and hoping people come out to see the opponent is a philosophy, but it's not a philosophy that leads to winning teams. It just isn't.

Belief that Syracuse is somehow the magic program that defies the physics of the modern game is just silly.

At least those of you who say you'd rather schedule like this and win five games than schedule realistically and win 8-9 games, ok. You're realistic.

But those of you who think you can schedule like this and take Syracuse back to the glory days, you're banking on something that is just shown not to happen that way.

Give up five-six years of this kind of scheduling, build yourself into a top-25 program, and start adding some of these games back. You really think people aren't going to turn out of a game against NC State in November when you are 7-1 and ranked, because you played University of Buffalo back in the first game of the year?

Winning drive attendence.

 

[SaltineWar]

You can argue whether you LIKE the fact, but it's not an open question...scheduling so difficult is NOT a road to success. Scheduling 3 near-sure wins, and one challenge-but-winnable game is the formula. It's been proven that's what works over and over again in the last 25 years, and the opposite hasn't worked for anyone trying to build their program to the next level.

Pretty much every school that has cupcaked their way to a consistent top-20 level has seen a big increase in attendence. Scheduling yourself for 4-6 win seasons every year, and hoping people come out to see the opponent is a philosophy, but it's not a philosophy that leads to winning teams. It just isn't.

Belief that Syracuse is somehow the magic program that defies the physics of the modern game is just silly.

At least those of you who say you'd rather schedule like this and win five games than schedule realistically and win 8-9 games, ok. You're realistic.

But those of you who think you can schedule like this and take Syracuse back to the glory days, you're banking on something that is just shown not to happen that way.

Give up five-six years of this kind of scheduling, build yourself into a top-25 program, and start adding some of these games back. You really think people aren't going to turn out of a game against NC State in November when you are 7-1 and ranked, because you played University of Buffalo back in the first game of the year?

Winning drive attendence.

This is spot on. Unfortunately our athletic department has dollars signs in their eyes, which leads them to serve us up to power opponents in "home" games at "neutral" sites for a big payday.

 

[Alsacs]

I have no problem with the schedule I am more upset at the coaching philosophy. We had enough talent to beat Penn State breaking in a true Freshman QB in a neutral site game. The coaching was sub-par and hurt us that game IMO. I don't think losing at Northwestern was unexpected I predicted we would lose I just didn't expect to see a clown show the first half. We aren't scheduling Alabama, LSU, Ohio State each year outside of USC the previous years and Penn State we have played programs we should beat in the Dome. Northwestern, Illinois, Minnesota, Washington, Iowa, Virginia, Boston College, but most of them were during the disastrous GROB era. Doug Marrone brought us from a 2 star program nationally to a 3 star program. We may schedule like a 4 star program, but its not the problem IMO. Lou Syracuse will be 2-2 in its non-conference schedule which was worst case scenario for the program fans are frustrated we should be 1-1 against the B1G instead of 0-2. Tulane and Wagner were always going to be wins we could run every down and beat these teams. I am more frustrated that first year coach has an offense that looks like garbage against decent defenses.

 

[SmilinBob]

What's also annoying is even if SU went 2-0 they would have been #23 or worse while Texas can get their butt kicked by BYU and yet still garner more votes in the AP poll then who? BYU. To add to that...Virginia the team that beat BYU received zero votes in both polls. Why? They got their butts crushed by possibly the best team in the country Oregon. It's a completely moronic system and SU HAS TO LEARN TO PLAY THIS GAME.

 

[Lou_C]

And per my example Kentucky is not in the title hunt ... ever ... and they pack the house for their games ... the only SEC team that doesn't is Vandy ... I would rather watch SU play PSU tight and run the risk of losing by 6 to a name program then pull the same crap RU does and pound on Norfolk St. every year ... because even when Cuse is winning no one shows up to watch games against Maine, Wagner or Colgate. Which brings me back to my original point ... our fan base is a joke. So what we play Clemson and FSU each year ... win the rest you are 10-2 (if you lose two tough OOC you are 8-4) and there is no reason what so ever that we can't put a competitive product out there with respect to the rest of the division. And that is assuming there are years you are not good enough to beat a Clemson or FSU when in the past we have been so I really don't buy that argument.

And believe me an SEC team that has title hopes doesn't need to schedule for a tough OOC ... you do realize their in-conference slate plus winning an SEC title game is more than enough ... frankly it is a bigger risk for them to play those games like a Clemson or VT. You guys want to sit here on this board and paste them and say they don't play anyone then complain when we actually play a viable OOC slate ... we aren't a selector school ... we have to take the games we can get ... its not like teams are lining up throwing their hands in the air saying ... "Play us ... Play us" we aren't a big revenue draw ... I am not sure why you cannot figure that out.

The reason it doesn't work this way is because there is no way you should believe right now that you are good enough to beat the other teams not named FSU and Clemson. How are you going to get better? Most are recruiting better than you guys, and they will continue to do so because they will be able to point to a winning trajectory for their program. And most of them are already closer to the talent than you. You cannot get the kids you need to run the ACC slate (minus FSU/CU) unless you show you are a team that wins and is one the right track. Baby steps.

The way you get to the place you are describing is by scheduling three sure wins, and one higher profile game that you have a good chance to win. Go into the Clemson game 4-0 and play on prime time on ESPN, instead of on Raycom at 12:30. Have all your recruiting targets at that game and a packed dome. Lose that game, maybe bad, and tell your recruits "This is the kind of atmosphere you guys can play in at Syracuse. But you can see we need you, and now. You could have started this game." Hell, play that Clemson game close or win, and its just gravy.

Lose to FSU, lose two other ACC games, and finish 8-4. Play in a bowl game close to New Years against an SEC or B1G school. Get your kids and coach and extra month of practices. Win that game, and you've won 9 games.

Now, instead you'll be 2-2, enthusiasm for the Clemson game will be muted considerably, and if you play out the season exactly the same way, you are 6-6 at best and playing in the Birmingham bowl against UConn or something.

I know it's hard to wrap your head around and it's against what we grew up with, but that's just how it works.

As for SOS, Syracuse is a long way from that mattering. Worry about that when you get to where FSU and Clemson are, and they're taking on big games. You adjust your philosophy with the state of the program obviously.

And if everyone took this philosophy the conference schedule would more than make up for it. Hell, if UVA had been satisfied with BYU, that win would look tremendous today and UVA would probably be ranked. Instead, they insisted on taking on Oregon on one week's prep, after Oregon had a warm up game.

 

[Lou_C]

What's also annoying is even if SU went 2-0 they would have been #23 or worse while Texas can get their butt kicked by BYU and yet still garner more votes in the AP poll then who? BYU. To add to that...Virginia the team that beat BYU received zero votes in both polls. Why? They got their butts crushed by possibly the best team in the country Oregon. It's a completely moronic system and SU HAS TO LEARN TO PLAY THIS GAME.

Yes, that's probably the best way to put it. If my posts imply that I think the way it works is right or appropriate, sorry. It kind of sucks. But the ACC has to learn to play this game, because everyone else is.

 

[orangeinjersey]

The reason it doesn't work this way is because there is no way you should believe right now that you are good enough to beat the other teams not named FSU and Clemson. How are you going to get better? Most are recruiting better than you guys, and they will continue to do so because they will be able to point to a winning trajectory for their program. And most of them are already closer to the talent than you. You cannot get the kids you need to run the ACC slate (minus FSU/CU) unless you show you are a team that wins and is one the right track. Baby steps.

The way you get to the place you are describing is by scheduling three sure wins, and one higher profile game that you have a good chance to win. Go into the Clemson game 4-0 and play on prime time on ESPN, instead of on Raycom at 12:30. Have all your recruiting targets at that game and a packed dome. Lose that game, maybe bad, and tell your recruits "This is the kind of atmosphere you guys can play in at Syracuse. But you can see we need you, and now. You could have started this game." Hell, play that Clemson game close or win, and its just gravy.

Lose to FSU, lose two other ACC games, and finish 8-4. Play in a bowl game close to New Years against an SEC or B1G school. Get your kids and coach and extra month of practices. Win that game, and you've won 9 games.

Now, instead you'll be 2-2, enthusiasm for the Clemson game will be muted considerably, and if you play out the season exactly the same way, you are 6-6 at best and playing in the Birmingham bowl against UConn or something.

I know it's hard to wrap your head around and it's against what we grew up with, but that's just how it works.

As for SOS, Syracuse is a long way from that mattering. Worry about that when you get to where FSU and Clemson are, and they're taking on big games. You adjust your philosophy with the state of the program obviously.

And if everyone took this philosophy the conference schedule would more than make up for it. Hell, if UVA had been satisfied with BYU, that win would look tremendous today and UVA would probably be ranked. Instead, they insisted on taking on Oregon on one week's prep, after Oregon had a warm up game.

This post is just full of win. Excellent post.

 

[SmilinBob]

Yes, that's probably the best way to put it. If my posts imply that I think the way it works is right or appropriate, sorry. It kind of sucks. But the ACC has to learn to play this game, because everyone else is.

No I think you are right. Until everybody schedules basically the same it's just a fools errand to schedule like SU does.

 

[SaltineWar]

The reason it doesn't work this way is because there is no way you should believe right now that you are good enough to beat the other teams not named FSU and Clemson. How are you going to get better? Most are recruiting better than you guys, and they will continue to do so because they will be able to point to a winning trajectory for their program. And most of them are already closer to the talent than you. You cannot get the kids you need to run the ACC slate (minus FSU/CU) unless you show you are a team that wins and is one the right track. Baby steps.

The way you get to the place you are describing is by scheduling three sure wins, and one higher profile game that you have a good chance to win. Go into the Clemson game 4-0 and play on prime time on ESPN, instead of on Raycom at 12:30. Have all your recruiting targets at that game and a packed dome. Lose that game, maybe bad, and tell your recruits "This is the kind of atmosphere you guys can play in at Syracuse. But you can see we need you, and now. You could have started this game." Hell, play that Clemson game close or win, and its just gravy.

Lose to FSU, lose two other ACC games, and finish 8-4. Play in a bowl game close to New Years against an SEC or B1G school. Get your kids and coach and extra month of practices. Win that game, and you've won 9 games.

Now, instead you'll be 2-2, enthusiasm for the Clemson game will be muted considerably, and if you play out the season exactly the same way, you are 6-6 at best and playing in the Birmingham bowl against UConn or something.

I know it's hard to wrap your head around and it's against what we grew up with, but that's just how it works.

As for SOS, Syracuse is a long way from that mattering. Worry about that when you get to where FSU and Clemson are, and they're taking on big games. You adjust your philosophy with the state of the program obviously.

And if everyone took this philosophy the conference schedule would more than make up for it. Hell, if UVA had been satisfied with BYU, that win would look tremendous today and UVA would probably be ranked. Instead, they insisted on taking on Oregon on one week's prep, after Oregon had a warm up game.

This man speaks the truth. I read some posts the other day saying, "well when we scheduled NW we didn't think they would be good." Are you kidding me? We're not good; not good at all in fact, and haven't been for nearly 15 years. Yet we still think we can schedule the likes of NW or Minnesota for auto-wins.

Just because Jim Brown used to suit up for us doesn't mean we have a birthright to go out and kick the bottom half of the Big Ten's @s$ every year.

Our program is in the toilet, and at this point there's no light at the end of the tunnel. We need to retool this mess with a new scheduling philosophy.