The Coyle decision

[Chip]

Me too. There are absolutely 0 good reasons for keeping him. Keeping him and extending him is the opposite of safe. It could be detrimental to the program. Bringing a lame duck HC back will only set us back further. Let's bring in an offensive minded HC that can grow with this current Freshman class. A good HC can win NEXT year, and then start recruiting fresh. Just imagine Shafer trying to recruit next season if he is brought back. He thought coaches were negative recruiting against him last year? Just imagine if he's brought back.

This is the easiest decision Coyle will have in his career. I am sure he already has a list and is going through an extensive vetting process.

You can't hindsight this next hire like you could with Pasqualoni. If the next hire struggles, are people going to say we should have stuck with the guy who, on the last play of the last game of 2013 became bowl eligible and then had 2 losing seasons?

Coyle would get scrutinized for the hire not working out, but not the decision itself. We're going to host the #1 team in the country at 3:30 on ABC with about 20,000 empty seats. Risk? Ha.

 

[Ottoble]

this isnt Coyle in a vacuum. i am sure he has enough contacts that he has people better informed than us as to whether regardless of wins/losses it looks./feels like the team is going in the right direction. honestly if the Virg game doesnt get blown down the stretch are we really having this conversation now at 4-5? fans get frustrated and what instant changes, not always for the better good of the teams. it will suck if we somehow got to 5-7 and really should have been looking at a 6-7 win season. it will suck more if we finish 3-9 and both of those games are misplayed down the stretch like the Virg/Pitt games were.

Virginia and Pitt games are a big swing from 3-6 to 5-4. 3OT and last second field goal after a fake punt on 4th down.

 

[MadNY3]

Does he bet his young career on a coach that he would not have hired?

Coyle has proven himself. And if for some reason he keeps Shafer another year (sans extension), he is playing a longer game than we would anticipate...or probably appreciate.

 

[Crusty]

Just curious how do you know that feelers have already been sent out... besides rumors posted on here. And It isn't like Shafer doesn't have some influential people supporting him either.

Coaches who want the job are starting to lobby with SU contacts they know. It's out there.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Yes and so are former players advocating who they think should be the HC. Doesn't mean that any of those are real candidates.

 

[Crusty]

Coyle has proven himself. And if for some reason he keeps Shafer another year (sans extension), he is playing a longer game than we would anticipate...or probably appreciate.

To do that he would have to think that this staff can get us into the top 25. Doubt he will envision that.

 

[Chip]

Virginia and Pitt games are a big swing from 3-6 to 5-4. 3OT and last second field goal after a fake punt on 4th down.

Counter that with Central Michigan. And if we beat BC, I'd bet it's something last second or overtime.

These things tend to work themselves out.

 

[Crusty]

Yes and so are former players advocating who they think should be the HC. Doesn't mean that any of those are real candidates.

Well, believe that if you choose.

 

[Chip]

Yes and so are former players advocating who they think should be the HC. Doesn't mean that any of those are real candidates.

Is Konrad starting up the Addazio campaign again?

 

[orangeinjersey]

Virginia and Pitt games are a big swing from 3-6 to 5-4. 3OT and last second field goal after a fake punt on 4th down.

And if Shafer doesnt beat BC at the last second his first year, we're 5-7 with no bowl. And what about a bounce going CMU's way in that 3OT thriller? Please stop with this, we're only two plays away

 

[djorange1989]

Me too. There are absolutely 0 good reasons for keeping him. Keeping him and extending him is the opposite of safe. It could be detrimental to the program. Bringing a lame duck HC back will only set us back further. Let's bring in an offensive minded HC that can grow with this current Freshman class. A good HC can win NEXT year, and then start recruiting fresh. Just imagine Shafer trying to recruit next season if he is brought back. He thought coaches were negative recruiting against him last year? Just imagine if he's brought back.

This is the easiest decision Coyle will have in his career. I am sure he already has a list and is going through an extensive vetting process.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I will be stunned if Coyle doesn't let SS go

 

[Chris02M]

You can't hindsight this next hire like you could with Pasqualoni. If the next hire struggles, are people going to say we should have stuck with the guy who, on the last play of the last game of 2013 became bowl eligible and then had 2 losing seasons?

Coyle would get scrutinized for the hire not working out, but not the decision itself. We're going to host the #1 team in the country at 3:30 on ABC with about 20,000 empty seats. Risk? Ha.

must mean a bunch of no shows off tickets sold/available as on ticketmaster, it doesnt look that bad attendence wise well over 30 for sure could be close to 40 even

 

[Chris02M]

i like shafer and can see giving him another year but 3 things need to happen:
1-not getting blown out by clemson by more than 35
2- beat nc state and bc as they are our peers and only beating wake is not acceptible
3- staff changes especially Db and/ or OL coaches

if that all happens i give him next year but tell him its 7 wins or bust regardless of injuries or bad reffing and we need to beat a top tier team talent wise

 

[Crusty]

The common practice when coming in from the outside to take charge of a turn around situation is to make your changes early. It is more important to get people you trust and to change the culture than it is to get every decision right. Also, if you wait the people get human to you making it harder to fire them.

It is also important to get the angst of change behind as soon as possible. For that reason indecision is the enemy. Leaving major decisions in limbo is the worst thing to do. In Shafer's case that means extend him or fire him.

 

[KaiserUEO]

if coyle brings back SS, he will need to extend him.

cant have a lame duck coach, kills recruiting.

SS is fired by dec 1.

 

[Crusty]

The calendar is important. If there is a change, it needs to be made by the end of December. That argues for firing right after the BC game.

Since it will take a few weeks to interview, conduct due diligence, negotiate a contract and have it approved by the BOT, having an understanding of the field would require feelers going out now.

 

[Chip]

must mean a bunch of no shows off tickets sold/available as on ticketmaster, it doesnt look that bad attendence wise well over 30 for sure could be close to 40 even

So take my comment, edit it safely by saying 10,000 empty seats.

Same point. (and thanks Clemson fans for buying).

 

[Chip]

The calendar is important. If there is a change, it needs to be made by the end of December. That argues for firing right after the BC game.

Since it will take a few weeks to interview, conduct due diligence, negotiate a contract and have it approved by the BOT, having an understanding of the field would require feelers going out now.

If the next 2 games look anything like the last 2 games, there's no sense denying the inevitable. Announce it after NC State. Get the process in full gear.

The program's success is bigger than people's feelings.

 

[SUFan44]

Gross was forced into hiring a coach after being on the job for less than a month. He even admitted that he wished he had another year to "survey the landscape" before making a hire.

Coyle has been on the job for less than 5 months. I wonder how his survey is going?

Different scenario completely this time around.

 

[DocFlanders]

It is counter intuitive but keeping Shafer for another year is the safe call by Coyle. The reasons are simple. The guy has one more year on his contract, He was not Coyles hire, It is easy to extend him with a very small buy out, Coyle buys time to find his coach, If Shafer does great next year Coyle is a genius. If not no big deal Coyle makes his move. If im Coyle unless i can hire my home run pick the safe move is to stay the course as he has zero downside in doing so.

But what if the guy Coyle wants is ready to step up, and waiting a year means he gets hired by another team. Not a chance I'm willing to take if I am Coyle.

 

[kcsu]

The common practice when coming in from the outside to take charge of a turn around situation is to make your changes early. It is more important to get people you trust and to change the culture than it is to get every decision right. Also, if you wait the people get human to you making it harder to fire them.

It is also important to get the angst of change behind as soon as possible. For that reason indecision is the enemy. Leaving major decisions in limbo is the worst thing to do. In Shafer's case that means extend him or fire him.

This is a very good post. I agree. My point is simple if he gets his guy he makes the change but not if he has to stretch. At that point play the current card and make sure that you are able to bring in your choice. A few years ago i need to make a change in one of our operating units. I had two individuals in mind. One didnt want the position because he had young children and didnt want to make the move to Europe. The other was provided a great promotion and stayed with his current company. I didnt make the change. A year later my first choice re considered and accepted the position and moved his family. It ended up being a good move waiting, painful for sure but a good long term move. Change for change alone can end up being a disaster.

 

[Crusty]

This is a very good post. I agree. My point is simple if he gets his guy he makes the change but not if he has to stretch. At that point play the current card and make sure that you are able to bring in your choice. A few years ago i need to make a change in one of our operating units. I had two individuals in mind. One didnt want the position because he had young children and didnt want to make the move to Europe. The other was provided a great promotion and stayed with his current company. I didnt make the change. A year later my first choice re considered and accepted the position and moved his family. It ended up being a good move waiting, painful for sure but a good long term move. Change for change alone can end up being a disaster.

I don't know why the change for change sake argument is relevant here. There are many coaching options available to us if we are willing to pay market value. If we are not then this entire board is irrelevant.

I would add that the bar is now so low that the odds of a change improving the program are pretty high.

Sometimes I think we are so bad we have forgotten what good is.

 

[kcsu]

I don't know why the change for change sake argument is relevant here. There are many coaching options available to us if we are willing to pay market value. If we are not then this entire board is irrelevant.

I would add that the bar is now so low that the odds of a change improving the program are pretty high.

Sometimes I think we are so bad we have forgotten what good is.

Having been through a few dark periods i just want to make sure that Coyle is provided with the time and resources to make a great hire. If for some reason he wiffs on his first two choices do you think we should settle for a third or possible fourth pick or wait a year? My point is simple. Get your guy pull the trigger if not waiting is better in my opinion.

 

[Crusty]

i like shafer and can see giving him another year but 3 things need to happen:
1-not getting blown out by clemson by more than 35
2- beat nc state and bc as they are our peers and only beating wake is not acceptible
3- staff changes especially Db and/ or OL coaches

if that all happens i give him next year but tell him its 7 wins or bust regardless of injuries or bad reffing and we need to beat a top tier team talent wise

That is the problem, we all like Shafer. However, he has made enough bad decisions to reasonably conclude he will never get us to the too 25 AND to conclude there are many better options. Time to let go.

 

[Crusty]

Having been through a few dark periods i just want to make sure that Coyle is provided with the time and resources to make a great hire. If for some reason he wiffs on his first two choices do you think we should settle for a third or possible fourth pick or wait a year? My point is simple. Get your guy pull the trigger if not waiting is better in my opinion.

Can you really do that in CFB? I think you have to create the opening first and then go get your guy. I also think there are many choices better than what we have - so much so that I don't think there is any real risk of doing worse.