The Coyle decision

[CousCuse]

ha

it'll be a tall order for us to go down there and win on the road but we're more than capable. really no different than the uva game. but at this point, this is a game Shafer absolutely needs to win.

Hopefully a incomplete forward pass won't be ruled a fumble in that game, which cost the win.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

This program does not need some 0ld geezer retread.

And GRob had FAR, FAR, FAR from an impeccable resume.

They just need to do a good search, an offensive guy first, hopefully with HC experience, make sure he can hire a decent staff. It's not that difficult. Like I said, there are guys at the FCS level more than capable of the task at hand. if you can't get a good name great, if not dig a bit more. It can't get much worse. Shafer only has 1 year on his contract, getting rid of him is easy. Hiring the right coach while not simple, isn't splitting the atom as some like to make it. It's almost as if some don't want to get rid of him because the next guy may not be great either, but how much worse can it get? 2 win seasons? BFD

Cut bait and try again. It happens. Safer hires sometimes work, sometimes don't. Hot candidates sometimes work, sometimes don't. There are no guarantees even if COYLE gets "his" guy which people seem to be so hung up on.

 

[elimunelson]

This is not the easy decision that some on here suggest. HCSS has not been an unmitigated failure, ala GROB. This year’s team has some talent and they certainly play hard both of which reflect well on the coaching staff.

So in order to fire HCSS --- given the several year disruption that coaching changes always seem to entail --- you have to be pretty sure that you are going to be able to both identify and hire someone who will be a significant upgrade.

I have little patience for those on here who just assume this is going to be easy. I see it as a very high risk proposition for SU.

If HCSS is replaced, my solution would be for the school to show some real imagination and real courage

Getting SU into the upper echelon of the ACC is going to be a very difficult job. We just will be unable to do it without a really superior head coach and coaching staff.

SU isn't going to get any of the top obvious, low-risk, “hot” candidates. There are too many current openings and other schools with more resources and fewer innate challenges facing a new coach

Think of O'Leary at CFL or Bobby Knight at TTU. Or Larry Brown at SMU. These guys were highly-likely to be successful at some level. And in even in these schools, the dissenting voices --- and I'm sure there must have been many --- have to be told to . Why not “The Vest”, who also was an Asst Coach at SU previously.

Under Cantor there would be no chance that any one with any controversy would be selected. But if the new crew is really serious about this ….

The more people involved in the decision, the less likely there will be any controversy what-so-ever. And the more likely this safe, consensus choice will not be as imaginative as it has to be to be successful. GRob is the perfect example ... impeccable resume, great recommendations and "looked the part".

Great post and I agree with pretty much all of it. I remember when UMass sniffed around at Bobby Knight and decided against it b/c the State School, run by those who want the safe choice, couldn't stomach it.

The school has to make a bold move here when the move is made. I've advocated for the Vest or an Orgeron b/c both guys would without a doubt supercharge our recruiting efforts and have been part of top 10 operations. Both come with HUGE risks too but Syracuse can't play for a bunt single, it has to think 3 run home run or a strike out. It's called a gamble.

The safe move is to retain a guy with no top 25 wins, no top 25 appearances and a blah resume.

Coyle only knows what type of program he wants to shoot for.

 

[Townie72]

This program does not need some 0ld geezer retread.

And GRob had FAR, FAR, FAR from an impeccable resume.

Well we disagree than.

I doubt SU can attract and hire the best hot, new talent. If we try it and fail, we are going to get embarrassed.

This isn't SU basketball or lacrosse. This is a football program that has been wallowing in mediocrity or worse for 15 years.

Heck, I'd take the Maryland job before the SU one. Better weather, better recruiting areas. Washington DC vs. Syracuse, NY., etc,. etc.

 

[rrlbees]

This program does not need some 0ld geezer retread. And GRob had FAR, FAR, FAR from an impeccable resume.

I could make an argument that Marrones resume, except for having been an SU player, was no better and probably weaker.

 

[Townie72]

They just need to do a good search, an offensive guy first, hopefully with HC experience, make sure he can hire a decent staff. It's not that difficult. Like I said, there are guys at the FCS level more than capable of the task at hand. if you can't get a good name great, if not dig a bit more. It can't get much worse. Shafer only has 1 year on his contract, getting rid of him is easy. Hiring the right coach while not simple, isn't splitting the atom as some like to make it. It's almost as if some don't want to get rid of him because the next guy may not be great either, but how much worse can it get? 2 win seasons? BFD

Cut bait and try again. It happens. Safer hires sometimes work, sometimes don't. Hot candidates sometimes work, sometimes don't. There are no guarantees even if COYLE gets "his" guy which people seem to be so hung up on.

"It can't get much worse"? Oh, yes it can.

You seem to be trying to have it both ways.

That is, "It can't be that hard", and "candidates sometimes work and sometimes they don't".

Are you suggesting the strategy ought to be to make the best hire you can and then fire him after 3 or 4 years if it doesn't work out?

Nine or 12 more years of what we have seen for the last 15 or so will have SU at such a level, we will be interviewing high school coaches for the HC job.

 

[Crusty]

So, just to clarify here: this is coaches lobbying for the SU job, and not necessarily Coyle reaching out to anyone, right? That's the way it sounds from the last couple posts.

That is not the way it was phrased to me, but I did not ask that specific question. I suppose every AD with a HC on the Hot Seat gets calls from agents. However, there has been no apparent attempt to discourage anyone either.

We all view these things through our own prisms. Is their fire where there is smoke? Who knows?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

"It can't get much worse"? Oh, yes it can.

You seem to be trying to have it both ways.

That is, "It can't be that hard", and "candidates sometimes work and sometimes they don't".

Are you suggesting the strategy ought to be to make the best hire you can and then fire him after 3 or 4 years if it doesn't work out?

Nine or 12 more years of what we have seen for the last 15 or so will have SU at such a level, we will be interviewing high school coaches for the HC job.

How much worse can it get? 1-2 win seasons versus 3?

Yes, I am suggesting fire him and give the new guy 3-4 years to prove he's worth the check he's cashing as every other program seems to do. That is plenty of time. Marrone had 4 years and looked like he was moving in the right direction, sure he had some ups and downs but after year 4, it was evident he could coach.

Don't understand the nonsense about hiring high school coaches, again over dramatic about the whole process.

What should we give Shafer 10 years?

Hire a new coach, give him 3-4 years, if he stinks fire him and move on to the next. This isn't 1982 townie. Times have changed. Programs hire and fire until they get it right. We aren't talking about hiring mid level managers here.

I am willing to deal with it getting worse because I don't see a huge downside, already been there with GERG. He was a 0 out of 10 hire, Shafer is a 2 out of 10.

I would like to think Coyle can do his job and get this done if he chooses to do so. I assure you I don't want it both ways, I think he should be fire ASAP and move on. I Also wont guarantee the next guy will be great either but its a risk I would be willing to take

 

[CuseLegacy]

As a former hiring agent I can say that any time there is even a rumor that an opening might come available you are bombarded by inquiries. I doubt that it is any different in this situation.

 

[GoSU96]

I could make an argument that Marrones resume, except for having been an SU player, was no better and probably weaker.

Respectfully, you're nuts.

Robinson had been outright fired from TWO NFL DC jobs, by two friends no less, the second guy cried, for being an abject horrible coordinator within FIVE years of being hired as SU's HC.

Doug Marrone to this day has NEVER been fired, he done well at every step before and since he was hired here.

For Gerg since he left, doing well, not so much.

 

[orange79]

Nice recap. I have often thought, "what about the vest?" His show cause situation is concluded and he obviously has a strong name. However, he currently is the president of YSU, and lives a fairly relaxed lifestyle with a good salary in the cheapest of all places, Youngstown, OH. Does he have a burning desire to get back into coaching, I doubt it. He is also gotta be late 50's, early 60's, by now. I'm just too disinterested to look it up.

I hope we don't go anywhere near him, for a ton of reasons. But to correct one point, his show-cause situation is NOT concluded. It is in effect until the end of 2016.

 

[Crusty]

As a former hiring agent I can say that any time there is even a rumor that an opening might come available you are bombarded by inquiries. I doubt that it is any different in this situation.

Yes, I think that is right.

 

[PhatOrange]

Hopefully a incomplete forward pass won't be ruled a fumble in that game, which cost the win.

geezus. i'd forgotten about that, thanks for reminding me. just when you think you've seen it all with bad calls against us we get Saturday's game. makes me forget about the others.

I’d love to know how many calls Syracuse submitted to the league office this week.

 

[rrlbees]

Respectfully, you're nuts. Robinson had been outright fired from TWO NFL DC jobs, by two friends no less, the second guy cried, for being an abject horrible coordinator within FIVE years of being hired as SU's HC. Doug Marrone to this day has NEVER been fired, he done well at every step before and since he was hired here. For Gerg since he left, doing well, not so much.

Being fired in the NFL doesn't mean diddly. A lot of coaches get fired left and right. And one coach admitted he was the fall guy. And his long resume and accomplishments are far more than those 2 years and as good or better than Marrone over their full careers prior to taking the SU job.

 

[Crusty]

Any physics majors out there? How does a ball go 1o yards forward unless the QB's arm is going forward?

Is their some law of prolate spheroid motion I missed?

 

[Townie72]

How much worse can it get? 1-2 win seasons versus 3?

Yes, I am suggesting fire him and give the new guy 3-4 years to prove he's worth the check he's cashing as every other program seems to do. That is plenty of time. Marrone had 4 years and looked like he was moving in the right direction, sure he had some ups and downs but after year 4, it was evident he could coach.

Don't understand the nonsense about hiring high school coaches, again over dramatic about the whole process.

What should we give Shafer 10 years?

Hire a new coach, give him 3-4 years, if he stinks fire him and move on to the next. This isn't 1982 townie. Times have changed. Programs hire and fire until they get it right. We aren't talking about hiring mid level managers here.

I am willing to deal with it getting worse because I don't see a huge downside, already been there with GERG. He was a 0 out of 10 hire, Shafer is a 2 out of 10.

I would like to think Coyle can do his job and get this done if he chooses to do so. I assure you I don't want it both ways, I think he should be fire ASAP and move on. I Also wont guarantee the next guy will be great either but its a risk I would be willing to take

Well, I agree you strategy is internally consistent. And it may resemble what happens. (I think of it as the "It couldn't hurt" or Why not?"strategy.

It wouldn't be mine, however. Before agreeing to fire the guy, I'd want to see a clear-eyed assessment of who his replacement is likely to be. Or at least a list of who is available and what our likelihood of getting them is likely to be.

I just don't think we can risk a couple of coaching mis-fires and remain relevant in college football.We aren't there yet, but we are approaching the precipice.

 

[Millhouse]

Well, I agree you strategy is internally consistent. And it may resemble what happens. (I think of it as the "It couldn't hurt" or Why not?"strategy.

It wouldn't be mine, however. Before agreeing to fire the guy, I'd want to see a clear-eyed assessment of who his replacement is likely to be. Or at least a list of who is available and what our likelihood of getting them is likely to be.

I just don't think we can risk a couple of coaching mis-fires and remain relevant in college football.We aren't there yet, but we are approaching the precipice.

we're always approaching this precipice. it never ends. it's always some silly make believe tipping point

if we hire someone bad, we'll be bad, someday we'll hire someone good and we'll be good

 

[Townie72]

Any physics majors out there? How does a ball go 1o yards forward unless the QB's arm is going forward?

Is their some law of prolate spheroid motion I missed?

Is there a possibility that there always was this what seems like high level of officiating errors and we just never knew it.

And all the new cameras, and angles, etc are just showing us what has been there all along?

I know in baseball, some of these managers are batting .500 on challenges.

 

[Townie72]

we're always approaching this precipice. it never ends. it's always some silly make believe tipping point

if we hire someone bad, we'll be bad, someday we'll hire someone good and we'll be good

When was the last time Indiana was good?

 

[jekelish]

Any physics majors out there? How does a ball go 1o yards forward unless the QB's arm is going forward?

Is their some law of prolate spheroid motion I missed?

Particularly when the arm is being hit from the front, not the back.

 

[Crusty]

Well, I agree you strategy is internally consistent. And it may resemble what happens. (I think of it as the "It couldn't hurt" or Why not?"strategy.

It wouldn't be mine, however. Before agreeing to fire the guy, I'd want to see a clear-eyed assessment of who his replacement is likely to be. Or at least a list of who is available and what our likelihood of getting them is likely to be.

I just don't think we can risk a couple of coaching mis-fires and remain relevant in college football.We aren't there yet, but we are approaching the precipice.

I think you can be sure that Coyle knows what his options are at this point - at least to a reasonable degree of certainty.

1. He has not made up his mind in which case the last two games will confirm the way he is leaning or give him pause to reevaluate.
2. He has made up his mind and the last two don't matter.

I would be concerned about his decision making if it is #1. He knows enough already to make a decision that should rest on more than the results of games against two marginal teams.

One thing is certain - we need to end this teeter-totter and get behind whatever decision Coyle makes. Some of us won't be happy but, so what. After all, its our team and we will all start next season with the same hopes that we had this September.

 

[Crusty]

When was the last time Indiana was good?

Geez, I am not THAT old.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

we're always approaching this precipice. it never ends. it's always some silly make believe tipping point

if we hire someone bad, we'll be bad, someday we'll hire someone good and we'll be good

My outlook as well. People act as if Coyle doesn't get his #1 choice who proves to be the best coach we have had in 30 years than the program will no longer exist or we will be hiring HS Coaches in 2 years. Like you said, it's a make believe tipping point. Sensationalizing the hire/fire process way too much.

Coyle just needs to do his job and like I said, there are guys out there that will want the job. Look at hires from FCS level as well, some good coaches out there who would love to have the job. Whether he gets his #1 choice is crazy talk, guys don't get their #1 hire ALL the time, doesn't mean you should keep Shafer, there are plenty of good coaches out there that will want the job, I firmly believe that. Some are up and comers, some may have a bit of luggage, some may need another shot, some may need to be HC, etc I don't know, not my job Yes, we may get turned down by a couple but happens.

 

[Millhouse]

When was the last time Indiana was good?

when was the last time they hired someone good? was there one or two pivotal coaching misfires that doomed them? indiana is always terrible. i don't think any coaching move there has every been that pivotal

 

[IthacaBarrel]

When was the last time Indiana was good?

Never but they aren't interviewing HS coaches yet either.