The Dome was empty...again. Where are the fans?

[ClamOtto]

There are so many things, including going to games, that were part of my routine pre-Covid that I never went back to afterward. New routines take their place. And, as bballbeadle said, the players meant a lot in the old days. Seeing guys like Scoop, Ricky Jackson, CJ Fair, Southerland, etc. grow over four years made me want to go root for them. Even short-timers like Wes, Dion and MCW made huge impressions and became lottery picks. We just don't have that anymore, partly because of the portal and partly because we're mostly not getting that kind of talent. Combine that with bad coaching and lots of losing and you have, to use the cliche, a perfect storm of bad attendance.

The weather's always sucked, the food's always been garbage and traffic's always been bad, but we still drew huge crowds even against cupcakes.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

i just got lazy. was a season ticketholder from 1995-2020. By then had 2 in college, team sucked, cold as hell and the fan base at the games drove me crazy. People showing up late, up and down the aisles, armchair referees screaming every possession. Its warmer, more comfortable, i dont have to listen to johnny jerkoff screaming every possession and the beer is cheaper to stay home and watch on TV. I still attend 2-3 games a season if someone invites me and everytime I attend I swear I wont go back. Maybe i'm just getting too old and cranky.

I think Johnny participates in the game threads now.

 

[Marsh01]

I think Johnny participates in the game threads now.

we have a ton of johnnys on this board

 

[ScriptCuse]

I'm jumping in late and I am sure this has already been addressed. I have always been a huge go to the game and support the team guy. I still go. But... why would people want to go? The product is horrible and hasn't been good for a decade. You can't keep putting a crap product out there and just assume people should show up.

Not to mention (And I know this is a choice I made, but a reality for many). I got my son French fries and a water and I got 2 beers... It was $40. Not to mention the tickets to see a bad opponent are $10-20 a piece.

For a family of 4 Just to walk in the door it's $50-$80? Or so? And for conference games you're looking $100-200. That's not chump change for most people. Sure they can eat and drink before hand, fine - but if you do want to take your family to a game, grab some food while you're there its a $200-$300 ordeal against a bad opponent for a team who isn't good and hasn't been for a decade. It's a lot.

I'm officially off the go to the game train until this program gives the community a reason to spend their hard earned money on that program.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I'm jumping in late and I am sure this has already been addressed. I have always been a huge go to the game and support the team guy. I still go. But... why would people want to go? The product is horrible and hasn't been good for a decade. You can't keep putting a crap product out there and just assume people should show up.

Not to mention (And I know this is a choice I made, but a reality for many). I got my son French fries and a water and I got 2 beers... It was $40. Not to mention the tickets to see a bad opponent are $10-20 a piece.

For a family of 4 Just to walk in the door it's $50-$80? Or so? And for conference games you're looking $100-200. That's not chump change for most people. Sure they can eat and drink before hand, fine - but if you do want to take your family to a game, grab some food while you're there its a $200-$300 ordeal against a bad opponent for a team who isn't good and hasn't been for a decade. It's a lot.

I'm officially off the go to the game train until this program gives the community a reason to spend their hard earned money on that program.

Post Covid IMO they went all in on trying to max profits. College sports IMO are supposed to be communal and do not exist to nickel and dime your fanbase. The Dome concession prices used to be reasonable. Now it is over $5 for a bottle of water.

 

[Trueblue25]

Historically the reason for the AD at Syracuse has been to provide cover for the administration and take the bullets for the decisions they crammed down the athletic department’s throat. The ADs role was to take the bullets and keep his pie hole shut about the fact he was getting screwed. That’s why we had the “unique” accounting in the 90s where funds almost all other schools allocated to the AD were going to the general fund, causing Syracuse to fall further and further behind when the spending arms race was in full swing.

The AD is also supposed to handle all the hard questions from the media, because we’ve seen what happens when the media goes around the AD. We get Shaw telling the fans to get a life…not good. I guarantee nobody on the BOT wants to give a presser explaining why they wanted Red so badly right now - they’ll let John handle those questions instead.

This really isn’t that hard to understand - if Wildhack were to get fired, what it communicates to everyone relevant is that the role of AD at Syracuse is to deal with whatever decisions the BOT crams down your throat, deal with the horrible PR mess that is created as a result, and ultimately get fired if the PR is too negative for the school to stomach anymore. Does that sound like a job opportunity a lot of highly qualified upwardly mobile individuals are going to sign up for? (Hint: the answer is no).

Looking at all the empty seats at basketball games, it’s obvious the Red experiment has failed. I have no idea how this entire process played out - but if Wildhack was expressing concerns with the approach to the administration/BOT as we moved on from JB and hired Red - he’s in a FANTASTIC position to say “I told you so” (although it needs to be more diplomatic than that) and start to leverage this trainwreck into more decision-making power than the AD at Syracuse has typically had. It’s realistically the only shot for athletics at Syracuse getting sustainably better. If he gets fired, it means the BOT is on the hunt for another figurehead to raise funds and take the bullets when their imposed decisions fail. I think a lot of people on here would celebrate Wildhack getting fired, oblivious to the fact that effectively dooms Syracuse athletics for generations at minimum, possibly forever.

Accountability is absolutely needed. But accountability without authority - which is what you are advocating for - is catastrophically bad. I’ve seen in the corporate world instances where people leveraged a disaster into more authority for themselves that they should have had in the first place - so I’m hopeful JW can run the same playbook here and help lead Syracuse out of the current mess.

(PS - If Wildhack wasn’t expressing concerns with the process that led to Red - then we’re screwed regardless. I highly doubt that is the case though).

Makes total sense, thanks.


Sometimes its just hard to be a fan of Cuse. Especially as a non-Alum. But here we are..

 

[Starman]

Other fanbases like to say that the dome can seat 35k, and there's not a good seat in the house. Tons of seats are great, but there's more truth to it than I'd like. Any seat that's halfway decent costs more than I want to spend, plus how they charge you a premium on anything and everything. The ticket prices at least make sense if the seats are full and people are buying them. When it costs $50 a seat for spots in the 300s, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[LAorange44]

The fans have left because Syracuse broke its promise and lost trust of the ticket paying public. A brand is something that reliably and consistently delivers on a promise. For 40 years, the Syracuse basketball brand and promise has been high level, competitive, and winning basketball. And unsurprisingly, people packed the dome because the school delivered on that promise. For the last 10 years, the basketball product has shifted away from that consistent deliverable, where now a competitive, high level, and winning game is a fluke, not the consistent deliverable. With premium ticket pricing and messaging that we are ready to compete, it’s not surprising that people have deserted the dome en masse when the product hasn’t lived up to expectations. Folks have bought tickets for decades, but it was the school who broke its promise, not the fans.

 

[pattycuse]

The fans have left because Syracuse broke its promise and lost trust of the ticket paying public. A brand is something that reliably and consistently delivers on a promise. For 40 years, the Syracuse basketball brand and promise has been high level, competitive, and winning basketball. And unsurprisingly, people packed the dome because the school delivered on that promise. For the last 10 years, the basketball product has shifted away from that consistent deliverable, where now a competitive, high level, and winning game is a fluke, not the consistent deliverable. With premium ticket pricing and messaging that we are ready to compete, it’s not surprising that people have deserted the dome en masse when the product hasn’t lived up to expectations. Folks have bought tickets for decades, but it was the school who broke its promise, not the fans.

Great post. Simply put, the product deteriorated and to quote my wife “it’s no longer fun”. Combine that with IMO inflated pricing (Last game I bought one chicken tenders, a lemonade and a Diet Coke for my daughter and me- it was $28) and the university is reaping what it’s sown- poor attendance. It won’t improve until the product improves.

 

[OCESIP]

Bottom line is sporting events (college and pro) are just another form of entertainment, and the $$ you spend on entertainment generally depends on the enjoyment factor it provides. While it might be fun just to watch the athleticism on the court, the bottom line is WINNING is the ultimate determinate. Once that's been reestablished on the hill, the marginal fans will show up. Simple problem to identify, much more complicated to achieve.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

There are so many things, including going to games, that were part of my routine pre-Covid that I never went back to afterward. New routines take their place. And, as bballbeadle said, the players meant a lot in the old days. Seeing guys like Scoop, Ricky Jackson, CJ Fair, Southerland, etc. grow over four years made me want to go root for them. Even short-timers like Wes, Dion and MCW made huge impressions and became lottery picks. We just don't have that anymore, partly because of the portal and partly because we're mostly not getting that kind of talent. Combine that with bad coaching and lots of losing and you have, to use the cliche, a perfect storm of bad attendance.

The weather's always sucked, the food's always been garbage and traffic's always been bad, but we still drew huge crowds even against cupcakes.

I think you make a great point about the lack of consistency with players. NIL and unlimited transfers has destroyed the consistency we all were accustomed to. And being able to see the kids grow and improve year over year was part of the fun. Now they’re mercenaries changing more often than all other professional sports. Hard to be loyal to the name on the front of the jersey when you have no clue what name is on the back.

 

[baggerbob]

It’s been 12 years since SU was a top 4 seed. The last 9 seasons of JB were very mediocre. He got the most out of the Cinderella 11 seed final four run in 2016.

And that's why this program isn't relevant anymore, because the BOT let JB destroy the program on his way out the door. As long as JB is still around and their isn't a big overhaul in the people on the BOT, things will not get a lot better.
Any good coach isn't coming here with the shadow of JB still around, and the current BOT.

 

[Cusefan95]

Post Covid IMO they went all in on trying to max profits. College sports IMO are supposed to be communal and do not exist to nickel and dime your fanbase. The Dome concession prices used to be reasonable. Now it is over $5 for a bottle of water.

Post-Covid we saw high inflation which has started pricing people out of goods and services they previously purchased. The solution a lot of businesses have tried is raising prices and decreasing quality - effectively trying to sell a commodity-level item as a premium product. It’s working out roughly as well - or poorly - for everyone trying it, save for a random outlier here or there.

Weirdly, I have been inundated this last week with some solid ticket deals for teams I have bought tickets from in the past. The two exceptions (I think) are the New York Mets (who are offering some deals on autographed and game used memorabilia to remember the good ol’ days, not giving me any reason to delude myself into thinking 2026 will be anything other than an unmitigated disaster) and Syracuse anything. I’m interpreting that as Syracuse being really committed to a strategy that isn’t working.

 

[hoopsupstate]

SU should be offering huge discounts for the remaining games during the holidays. Buy two adult tickets get two children free. Cheap family packs. Buy regular price ticket for these games and get a free or half off ACC game. Do something to get people in the stands. The crowds are embarrassing by SU standards. It’s time the AD steps up and not waiting for something to happen. Maybe he should get outside after games and direct traffic too. That’s another nightmare.

 

[LAorange44]

Dollar beers and dollar dome dogs will bring a rowdy crowd

 

[hoopsupstate]

Let’s hope Donnie gets back soon and Red rights the ship and finishes with a great year! That would be great for everyone.

 

[Cuse4455]

I swear there was more fans at the Lax games last year, than ive seen at MBB games this year...

 

[Eric15]

Football has shown us that if you win, the fans will come back quickly. For example in 2022, coming off three straight losing seasons, for the opener against Louisville we drew 37k. Midseason when we were ranked, we drew 49k for two games against NC State and Notre Dame.

I'm confident the same will apply to basketball. We just have to generate some momentum that creates local buzz. IMO the last home game that had genuine buzz was the Duke game in 2019 (Zion year).

 

[dollarbill44]

Dollar beers and dollar dome dogs will bring a rowdy crowd

Dollar Dome dogs aren't enough incentive. Every home football game this year they announced early on that students who stayed to the 4th quarter could get $1 dogs. It didnt matter. They were mostly gone midway through the 3rd quarter.

Dollar beers on the other hand...

 

[dollarbill44]

This program needs a coach with enthusiasm and charisma to rally the fans until the product improves significantly.

I want Red to succeed, we all should, but i don't have a ton of optimism of late.

 

[hoopsupstate]

This program needs a coach with enthusiasm and charisma to rally the fans until the product improves significantly.

I want Red to succeed, we all should, but i don't have a ton of optimism of late.

A big time recruit or portal addition would charge up the fan base too. Although, I thought Anthony might generate more interest especially with Melo coming to games.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Dollar Dome dogs aren't enough incentive. Every home football game this year they announced early on that students who stayed to the 4th quarter could get $1 dogs. It didnt matter. They were mostly gone midway through the 3rd quarter.

Dollar beers on the other hand...

I don't think concession deals with bring anyone to games. But I do think high prices can keep people away.

Beer I get having high prices as you want a deterrent to people getting wasted. But the rest IMO we should be doing what the Falcons do and not what the Yankees do.


Edit
Or better yet, why not have a STH 25% discount. It gives people incentive to have season tickets. Now instead of that $28 family meal mentioned before it is $21. That $5 water is now a more reasonable $3.75. Both are still overpriced but it makes you feel a little better.

 

[Scooch]

i just got lazy. was a season ticketholder from 1995-2020. By then had 2 in college, team sucked, cold as hell and the fan base at the games drove me crazy. People showing up late, up and down the aisles, armchair referees screaming every possession. Its warmer, more comfortable, i dont have to listen to johnny jerkoff screaming every possession and the beer is cheaper to stay home and watch on TV. I still attend 2-3 games a season if someone invites me and everytime I attend I swear I wont go back. Maybe i'm just getting too old and cranky.

Maybe?

 

[Scooch]

Football has shown us that if you win, the fans will come back quickly. For example in 2022, coming off three straight losing seasons, for the opener against Louisville we drew 37k. Midseason when we were ranked, we drew 49k for two games against NC State and Notre Dame.

I'm confident the same will apply to basketball. We just have to generate some momentum that creates local buzz. IMO the last home game that had genuine buzz was the Duke game in 2019 (Zion year).

Agreed. Obviously, winning is the cure.

Unfortunately, we spent a lot of time and energy excusing the clear downturn in the program post-2014. It was probation, and when that ended it was facilities, and when those were improved it was that JB gets to go out on his own terms, and when he left it was NIL… The rationalizations never end.

SU is a basketball school. We’ll never have the institutional advantages necessary to be consistently good at football. But hoops? We’re uniquely positioned to be great at hoops.

For some reason, SU’s administration and too many close to the program would rather explain why we can’t be great than try to pursue it. I really don’t get it. We seem to have a disproportionate amount of cranky, middle aged dudes who get off on being cynical about SU hoops. I live in CT and I sure as hell don’t see that attitude when it comes to UConn. They expect to be great.

If we can’t make hoops work, SU can’t make any sport work.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Post-Covid we saw high inflation which has started pricing people out of goods and services they previously purchased. The solution a lot of businesses have tried is raising prices and decreasing quality - effectively trying to sell a commodity-level item as a premium product. It’s working out roughly as well - or poorly - for everyone trying it, save for a random outlier here or there.

Weirdly, I have been inundated this last week with some solid ticket deals for teams I have bought tickets from in the past. The two exceptions (I think) are the New York Mets (who are offering some deals on autographed and game used memorabilia to remember the good ol’ days, not giving me any reason to delude myself into thinking 2026 will be anything other than an unmitigated disaster) and Syracuse anything. I’m interpreting that as Syracuse being really committed to a strategy that isn’t working.

I’ll say this. I don’t remember a ticket increase for me in at least 5 years. That has not been the problem here.