The Dome was empty...again. Where are the fans?

[sufan59]

You say negligence, I say due diligence.

If I was on a local school board, my priorities would be teachers salaries and building maintenance.

Making sure the football team had new jerseys every year would be at the bottom of the list.

At every job interview I ever had I was asked about my education and degree.

Nobody gave a crap that JB went to 5 Final Fours, and nobody cared if we missed the tournament for 5 straight years either.

Feel free to disagree with me.

For Syracuse University, it’s always has been and will continue to be the case that successful athletics is a main factor for the schools prestige, reputation, and attractiveness. You may say that it’s messed up, but it’s always been the identity of what makes Syracuse, Syracuse. Even the most prestigious colleges within the university directly benefit via successful athletics providing more opportunity and national visibility to the work they are doing for the establishment of there careers. Just because athletics isn’t good doesn’t mean this stops completely, but it makes things that much more difficult and hurts the brand of the university.

 

[OCESIP]

You say negligence, I say due diligence.

If I was on a local school board, my priorities would be teachers salaries and building maintenance.

Making sure the football team had new jerseys every year would be at the bottom of the list.

At every job interview I ever had I was asked about my education and degree.

Nobody gave a crap that JB went to 5 Final Fours, and nobody cared if we missed the tournament for 5 straight years either.

Feel free to disagree with me.

I would have to disagree from the standpoint of name recognition and image, especially for people outside the geographic area. Every college or university wants a fundamentally high level academic program. That priority is very important, but it doesn't translate to
identity and name recognition. I'm part-time in SC, and I can tell you Clemson has benefited significantly from a successful product on the football field. I'm guessing SU did as well at the height of it's Big East basketball success.

 

[OburgOrange]

For the most part, everyone here is a hardcore Basketball fan. That’s why we post here. To see what everyone is saying about their reasons for not attending games, how is there any chance to get casual fans to go?
Saying that, I’m going to the Mercyhurst game tomorrow. Scored a 5$ ticket on stub hub!

 

[Bill Orange]

I have tickets to the game vs Mount St Mary's on 1/11/26 - so I will probably make more Siena games this year than Syracuse.

Got mine as well.

 

[Cusefan95]

You say negligence, I say due diligence.

If I was on a local school board, my priorities would be teachers salaries and building maintenance.

Making sure the football team had new jerseys every year would be at the bottom of the list.

At every job interview I ever had I was asked about my education and degree.

Nobody gave a crap that JB went to 5 Final Fours, and nobody cared if we missed the tournament for 5 straight years either.

Feel free to disagree with me.

I'll disagree with both of you...or conditionally agree. However you want to frame it.

The BOT has a responsibility to the entire school. But they've also said that the athletic department needs to be self-funding - revenues generated by athletics needs to cover expenses. Syracuse isn't a Rutgers or UConn that will run a massive deficit every year. So they are in a tough situation of trying to balance minimizing expenses and maximizing revenues - and the actions needed for each of those two goals are often opposites. The tendency has been to minimize expenses and hope it doesn't have a significant negative impact on revenue - often while taking some money other schools spend on athletics and allocating it to the general fund. Considering how many colleges are closing and/or struggling financially - that may be the only viable option.

I could even sort of defend hiring Red if it was viewed as a favor to JB for giving the school a hometown discount for many, many years. JB did his part to help minimize expenses for sure.

Here's where I don't think we can lay blame at this BOT specifically - but the cultural history at the school isn't one which gives me much hope we'll attempt anything resembling a reasonable path forward. When the school tried this approach with football in the 90s and it started to impact on field success leading to fan dissatisfaction - the reaction WAS NOT to decide to change course. They could have opted to spend more, they could have opted to commit to accepting lower revenue...instead the option was to have Shaw tell fans to get a life and Jake tell people Syracuse was a one-horse town with no other options, so just suck up mediocrity and keep coming because we want your money. Yes, Shaw and Jake are long gone - but is the culture that led to that reaction any different today that it was in 2002? I 100% get that the BOT has a really hard task here - but history tells me the reaction to the current situation is more likely to be blaming the fans rather than living in reality and making decisions accordingly.

If I had to make a prediction, it will be that we'll continue to spend less than peers on athletics, attendance for football and basketball will suffer, eventually Syracuse will be kicked to the curb as college football continues to consolidate and won't be a major college program anymore...and the Dome will be a big white elephant in prime real estate. And - what we'll hear from the school is that its the fans fault it all went to hell. I'm not sure anything but the very last part is anything the BOT can control.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

For the most part, everyone here is a hardcore Basketball fan. That’s why we post here. To see what everyone is saying about their reasons for not attending games, how is there any chance to get casual fans to go?
Saying that, I’m going to the Mercyhurst game tomorrow. Scored a 5$ ticket on stub hub!

Also factor in that many of us are long term fans (read old). We aren’t drawing the attention of youth sufficient to replace us. My kid is 22, has played hoops his entire life and has been subject to my brain washing since he was 3, and he’s got zero interest in college hoops in general or SU hoops specifically. We don’t get the types of stars with social media followers that would change his, or many young people’s minds.

If you aren’t growing new interest every year, you’re losing another generation of fans.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'll disagree with both of you...or conditionally agree. However you want to frame it.

The BOT has a responsibility to the entire school. But they've also said that the athletic department needs to be self-funding - revenues generated by athletics needs to cover expenses. Syracuse isn't a Rutgers or UConn that will run a massive deficit every year. So they are in a tough situation of trying to balance minimizing expenses and maximizing revenues - and the actions needed for each of those two goals are often opposites. The tendency has been to minimize expenses and hope it doesn't have a significant negative impact on revenue - often while taking some money other schools spend on athletics and allocating it to the general fund. Considering how many colleges are closing and/or struggling financially - that may be the only viable option.

I could even sort of defend hiring Red if it was viewed as a favor to JB for giving the school a hometown discount for many, many years. JB did his part to help minimize expenses for sure.

Here's where I don't think we can lay blame at this BOT specifically - but the cultural history at the school isn't one which gives me much hope we'll attempt anything resembling a reasonable path forward. When the school tried this approach with football in the 90s and it started to impact on field success leading to fan dissatisfaction - the reaction WAS NOT to decide to change course. They could have opted to spend more, they could have opted to commit to accepting lower revenue...instead the option was to have Shaw tell fans to get a life and Jake tell people Syracuse was a one-horse town with no other options, so just suck up mediocrity and keep coming because we want your money. Yes, Shaw and Jake are long gone - but is the culture that led to that reaction any different today that it was in 2002? I 100% get that the BOT has a really hard task here - but history tells me the reaction to the current situation is more likely to be blaming the fans rather than living in reality and making decisions accordingly.

If I had to make a prediction, it will be that we'll continue to spend less than peers on athletics, attendance for football and basketball will suffer, eventually Syracuse will be kicked to the curb as college football continues to consolidate and won't be a major college program anymore...and the Dome will be a big white elephant in prime real estate. And - what we'll hear from the school is that its the fans fault it all went to hell. I'm not sure anything but the very last part is anything the BOT can control.

This isn't the Buzz and Jake administration of the 90's. One walk around campus should be able to tell you that. A lot of the BOT are big boosters and sports fans themselves. Red needs to win in March or he's getting fired period. Everything else is just noise at this point.

 

[djorange1989]

I would have to disagree from the standpoint of name recognition and image, especially for people outside the geographic area. Every college or university wants a fundamentally high level academic program. That priority is very important, but it doesn't translate to
identity and name recognition. I'm part-time in SC, and I can tell you Clemson has benefited significantly from a successful product on the football field. I'm guessing SU did as well at the height of it's Big East basketball success.

No doubt. I clearly remember after we went to the Finals in 1987, applications went WAY up, with the 11-0 football team of Fall 1987 helping that too. A lot more applications equals a college being able to be more selective with admissions

 

[hoopsupstate]

I was in 123 pre new seating and moved to 122 for $60 more per seat. I didn’t renew this year.

Mine too. Went up quite a bit. From old 123 to new 123.

 

[310Pigpen]

I have had seasons in 104 since 2012 and going to games used to be the highlight of the week. For the past 5ish seasons it’s felt more and more like a chore to drag myself to the Dome for a bball game.

The entire event is just extremely stale and boring. The students aren’t into the games as much or as creative as they used to be. The entire crowd isn’t as into the games as much as they were 8 years ago. It’s so obvious the entire program needs a refresher and new life pumped into it.

 

[Cusefan95]

This isn't the Buzz and Jake administration of the 90's. One walk around campus should be able to tell you that. A lot of the BOT are big boosters and sports fans themselves. Red needs to win in March or he's getting fired period. Everything else is just noise at this point.

A nearly empty Dome to watch Red coach a team to a loss to a mid major after a 19 loss season last year is decent evidence there’s not enough difference from Buzz/Jake to actually matter.

Red even still being here after last year is as well. Maybe we had some BOT jock sniffers excited Melo would be in the fold and delusional enough to think that was going to matter. I’m not sure that’s really a point in their favor though. Frankly I’d rather know they were trying to pinch pennies due to budgetary constraints and hoping against hope it worked out compared to thinking they were out of touch enough to believe bringing Red back this year was actually going to work. At least the former option shows some discipline and fiscal intelligence. The latter is a fireable offense by people who can’t be fired.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A nearly empty Dome to watch Red coach a team to a loss to a mid major after a 19 loss season last year is decent evidence there’s not enough difference from Buzz/Jake to actually matter.

Red even still being here after last year is as well. Maybe we had some BOT jock sniffers excited Melo would be in the fold and delusional enough to think that was going to matter. I’m not sure that’s really a point in their favor though. Frankly I’d rather know they were trying to pinch pennies due to budgetary constraints and hoping against hope it worked out compared to thinking they were out of touch enough to believe bringing Red back this year was actually going to work. At least the former option shows some discipline and fiscal intelligence. The latter is a fireable offense by people who can’t be fired.

The reason Red was hired has been discussed for multiple years and had nothing to do with pinching pennies.

 

[Bayside44]

Also factor in that many of us are long term fans (read old). We aren’t drawing the attention of youth sufficient to replace us. My kid is 22, has played hoops his entire life and has been subject to my brain washing since he was 3, and he’s got zero interest in college hoops in general or SU hoops specifically. We don’t get the types of stars with social media followers that would change his, or many young people’s minds.

If you aren’t growing new interest every year, you’re losing another generation of fans.

Kiyan Anthony has 1.2 million Instagram followers. That part works.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Kiyan Anthony has 1.2 million Instagram followers. That part works.

It’s a step in the right direction

 

[richmondcuse03]

$13 ticket offer for the rest of the games this month...says a lot.

 

[Cusefan95]

The reason Red was hired has been discussed for multiple years and had nothing to do with pinching pennies.

Exactly! But it points to the inconsistent in your position.

I’m astonished you could see the actual decisions which affect the athletic programs and conclude there’s a monumental difference between the Buzz/Jake era and now culturally. Somehow even though we’re making the exact same types of decisions to retain failing coaches that we’ve been making for 30 years, a walk around the campus is going to demonstrate the culture is totally different? Absurd.

As I said, I’d be far more willing to entertain the idea the BOT is constrained financially and the investment and hiring decisions are impacted by that. I think that’s leaning towards the position OrangeXtreme was expressing - they need to keep the entire university in mind with where dollars flow. That’s not what you’re pushing as a narrative though - your position is closer to saying the BoT are die hard superfans making the absolute best decisions they can for the sustained success of the athletic programs. That is absolute nonsense - if this is their best, they are terrible at it.

 

[orangecuse]

Agreed. Obviously, winning is the cure.

Unfortunately, we spent a lot of time and energy excusing the clear downturn in the program post-2014. It was probation, and when that ended it was facilities, and when those were improved it was that JB gets to go out on his own terms, and when he left it was NIL… The rationalizations never end.

SU is a basketball school. We’ll never have the institutional advantages necessary to be consistently good at football. But hoops? We’re uniquely positioned to be great at hoops.

For some reason, SU’s administration and too many close to the program would rather explain why we can’t be great than try to pursue it. I really don’t get it. We seem to have a disproportionate amount of cranky, middle aged dudes who get off on being cynical about SU hoops. I live in CT and I sure as hell don’t see that attitude when it comes to UConn. They expect to be great.

If we can’t make hoops work, SU can’t make any sport work.

Bam! To a T!

A few excellent posters here, IMO, who got the boot because of rubbing a certain, let's just say, folk's feathers wrong while debating the slide in an objective, constructive and spirited manner, etc. was just too critical of a truth to handle. Ironically, such closeness, etc. to JB caused a linked hindrance in an inability to operate non subjectively.

A none greater EXCUSE than the scholarship deduction (cut to 3 from intial 4 for that duration) and ignoring all of the swings and misses at landing our top prospects, especially at point guard and the 5 spot. Not to mention, giving unfulfilled schollies to walk-ons, etc.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Exactly! But it points to the inconsistent in your position.

I’m astonished you could see the actual decisions which affect the athletic programs and conclude there’s a monumental difference between the Buzz/Jake era and now culturally. Somehow even though we’re making the exact same types of decisions to retain failing coaches that we’ve been making for 30 years, a walk around the campus is going to demonstrate the culture is totally different? Absurd.

As I said, I’d be far more willing to entertain the idea the BOT is constrained financially and the investment and hiring decisions are impacted by that. I think that’s leaning towards the position OrangeXtreme was expressing - they need to keep the entire university in mind with where dollars flow. That’s not what you’re pushing as a narrative though - your position is closer to saying the BoT are die hard superfans making the absolute best decisions they can for the sustained success of the athletic programs. That is absolute nonsense - if this is their best, they are terrible at it.

Let them keep penny pinching. They’ll end up with an empty concrete dome on campus that fans will not be on the hook to pay for regardless of how much they want to blame us.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Exactly! But it points to the inconsistent in your position.

I’m astonished you could see the actual decisions which affect the athletic programs and conclude there’s a monumental difference between the Buzz/Jake era and now culturally. Somehow even though we’re making the exact same types of decisions to retain failing coaches that we’ve been making for 30 years, a walk around the campus is going to demonstrate the culture is totally different? Absurd.

As I said, I’d be far more willing to entertain the idea the BOT is constrained financially and the investment and hiring decisions are impacted by that. I think that’s leaning towards the position OrangeXtreme was expressing - they need to keep the entire university in mind with where dollars flow. That’s not what you’re pushing as a narrative though - your position is closer to saying the BoT are die hard superfans making the absolute best decisions they can for the sustained success of the athletic programs. That is absolute nonsense - if this is their best, they are terrible at it.

The entire move was based on taking the easiest route to move away from JB.

 

[Scooch]

Exactly! But it points to the inconsistent in your position.

I’m astonished you could see the actual decisions which affect the athletic programs and conclude there’s a monumental difference between the Buzz/Jake era and now culturally. Somehow even though we’re making the exact same types of decisions to retain failing coaches that we’ve been making for 30 years, a walk around the campus is going to demonstrate the culture is totally different? Absurd.

As I said, I’d be far more willing to entertain the idea the BOT is constrained financially and the investment and hiring decisions are impacted by that. I think that’s leaning towards the position OrangeXtreme was expressing - they need to keep the entire university in mind with where dollars flow. That’s not what you’re pushing as a narrative though - your position is closer to saying the BoT are die hard superfans making the absolute best decisions they can for the sustained success of the athletic programs. That is absolute nonsense - if this is their best, they are terrible at it.

I don’t think SU makes the kind of financial investments into the Dome renovation, football facility, coaches salary increases, etc. if the school isn’t serious about appropriately funding a P4 athletics department.

I firmly believe that one of Red’s biggest failings is his lackadaisical attitude toward fundraising. By many accounts he had little interest in it until he was dragged into doing it more. Last year’s roster debacle was a direct consequence of that indifference. He thought he had enough money, he was wrong, and we got outbid for several players.

If we have financial issues with hoops I lay a lot of it at his feet. I mean, our AD said he was free to hire an additional assistant coach and Red apparently decided not to. What the hell is that?! Like there isn’t work another staff member could be doing to make the team better?! Fran is shaking the money tree 24/7 but Red is all good with staff? It’s unreal.

I’m suggesting that we should be careful conflating university issues when it come to financing, and issues specific to the way Autry is running this program.

 

[Blanko97]

I don’t think SU makes the kind of financial investments into the Dome renovation, football facility, coaches salary increases, etc. if the school isn’t serious about appropriately funding a P4 athletics department.

I firmly believe that one of Red’s biggest failings is his lackadaisical attitude toward fundraising. By many accounts he had little interest in it until he was dragged into doing it more. Last year’s roster debacle was a direct consequence of that indifference. He thought he had enough money, he was wrong, and we got outbid for several players.

If we have financial issues with hoops I lay a lot of it at his feet. I mean, our AD said he was free to hire an additional assistant coach and Red apparently decided not to. What the hell is that?! Like there isn’t work another staff member could be doing to make the team better?! Fran is shaking the money tree 24/7 but Red is all good with staff? It’s unreal.

I’m suggesting that we should be careful conflating university issues when it come to financing, and issues specific to the way Autry is running this program.

This is a really good point, if we were as poor as some claimed you likely don't do a 150M+ renovation. Attendance definitely wasn't being limited by the setup of the dome.

 

[Cusefan95]

I don’t think SU makes the kind of financial investments into the Dome renovation, football facility, coaches salary increases, etc. if the school isn’t serious about appropriately funding a P4 athletics department.

I firmly believe that one of Red’s biggest failings is his lackadaisical attitude toward fundraising. By many accounts he had little interest in it until he was dragged into doing it more. Last year’s roster debacle was a direct consequence of that indifference. He thought he had enough money, he was wrong, and we got outbid for several players.

If we have financial issues with hoops I lay a lot of it at his feet. I mean, our AD said he was free to hire an additional assistant coach and Red apparently decided not to. What the hell is that?! Like there isn’t work another staff member could be doing to make the team better?! Fran is shaking the money tree 24/7 but Red is all good with staff? It’s unreal.

I’m suggesting that we should be careful conflating university issues when it come to financing, and issues specific to the way Autry is running this program.

I mean...I guess. But if the issue is that Red lacks a critical skill (or skills) for a college basketball head coach, and we had people in positions of power advocating for him to get one last chance - doesn't it have to lay at their feet also? Or we're just going to lay it all at Red's feet and not address the elephant in the room that he's still here well past the point it was clear this wasn't going to work long-term?

I had a boss once who used to say "its you or me...until its you or me". The whole point was he could be as long as people reporting to him were getting the job done. If they weren't, he couldn't prioritize friendship over business results because it was his neck on the line then. OrangeXtreme pushed back on the idea that the BOT messed up here, because they need to look wholistically at the entire university. But that defense starts to fall apart if the facts are we had a coach who has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not have the skills needed to succeed, but he's still here anyway. If he's here because we couldn't afford to handle the costs associated with replacing him - so be it. Then OrangeXtreme has a point. But if we're saying the BOT is super committed to investing in the athletic department but a guy who we know can't coach or fundraise is still here - why? Is it because the BOT folks who are friends with Red couldn't make the hard decision to move on?

Then we have people who can't be fired, and whose attitude deep down is NOT committed to success. It wasn't preordained by God that Red would be the coach this year - the people who allowed that to happen are on the hook here just as much as Red is. Because there was no chance this was going to work.

 

[sweetpea]

You say negligence, I say due diligence.

If I was on a local school board, my priorities would be teachers salaries and building maintenance.

Making sure the football team had new jerseys every year would be at the bottom of the list.

At every job interview I ever had I was asked about my education and degree.

Nobody gave a crap that JB went to 5 Final Fours, and nobody cared if we missed the tournament for 5 straight years either.

Feel free to disagree with me.

It has a huge impact on the amount of incoming students who apply. Obviously, the more students who apply the better it is for the school. More students, possibly more wealthy parents, more research money etc. My daughter has been on the hill for the past 7 years as an undergrad/grad student. She has relayed many times how palpable the buzz is on campus when football and basketball is doing well. How Dino often came into the Schine and got all the kids fired up. She sees very little of this anymore. We were a top ten basketball program for almost 40 years. Only way for a chance to bring that back is to win. Successful athletics are a huge part of the financial and academic picture at Syracuse.

 

[Scooch]

I mean...I guess. But if the issue is that Red lacks a critical skill (or skills) for a college basketball head coach, and we had people in positions of power advocating for him to get one last chance - doesn't it have to lay at their feet also? Or we're just going to lay it all at Red's feet and not address the elephant in the room that he's still here well past the point it was clear this wasn't going to work long-term?

I had a boss once who used to say "its you or me...until its you or me". The whole point was he could be as long as people reporting to him were getting the job done. If they weren't, he couldn't prioritize friendship over business results because it was his neck on the line then. OrangeXtreme pushed back on the idea that the BOT messed up here, because they need to look wholistically at the entire university. But that defense starts to fall apart if the facts are we had a coach who has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not have the skills needed to succeed, but he's still here anyway. If he's here because we couldn't afford to handle the costs associated with replacing him - so be it. Then OrangeXtreme has a point. But if we're saying the BOT is super committed to investing in the athletic department but a guy who we know can't coach or fundraise is still here - why? Is it because the BOT folks who are friends with Red couldn't make the hard decision to move on?

Then we have people who can't be fired, and whose attitude deep down is NOT committed to success. It wasn't preordained by God that Red would be the coach this year - the people who allowed that to happen are on the hook here just as much as Red is. Because there was no chance this was going to work.

I think a lot of work is being done by you being adamant that everyone should have known last season that Autry wasn’t salvageable.

His first season, while far from great, was an OK-ish job of him digging his way out of the mess that JB left behind on multiple fronts. Last season stunk, hands down, flat out.

But apparently Red was shaken from his fundraising slumber after last spring’s NIL and roster debacle. Everyone who’s anyone claimed we had all the NIL we needed this offseason. Hence the roster we have.

You disagree, but I don’t think it’s outrageous to have given him this year to sink or swim. It doesn’t look good at the moment but things can change.

Blame whomever you want. Red, or a sprawling cast of hundreds. But it’s simply untrue that SU is intentionally sabotaging the financial aspect of athletics. The school has invested at a far higher rate than it ever has before. Maybe that’s not enough, but it’s not nothing.

 

[Blanko97]

I think a lot of work is being done by you being adamant that everyone should have known last season that Autry wasn’t salvageable.

His first season, while far from great, was an OK-ish job of him digging his way out of the mess that JB left behind on multiple fronts. Last season stunk, hands down, flat out.

But apparently Red was shaken from his fundraising slumber after last spring’s NIL and roster debacle. Everyone who’s anyone claimed we had all the NIL we needed this offseason. Hence the roster we have.

You disagree, but I don’t think it’s outrageous to have given him this year to sink or swim. It doesn’t look good at the moment but things can change.

Blame whomever you want. Red, or a sprawling cast of hundreds. But it’s simply untrue that SU is intentionally sabotaging the financial aspect of athletics. The school has invested at a far higher rate than it ever has before. Maybe that’s not enough, but it’s not nothing.

Spot on again.