The future of the Dome...

[midloviking]

Flat roof on the Dome = tons of tailgating space. BAM! Problem solved. 1 giant escalator to get up and a few fireman's poles to get down.

 

[CuseOnly]

Alex Dunbar ‏@AlexDunbarNews 6m
AEG Live rep : current Carrier Dome roof can not handle lighting rigging for some major acts & SU considering upgrade

Fantastic, instead of Football they have found a reason to redo the Dome roof. Thank God for Billy Joel.

 

[Noexcuse]

The Master Plan is being done by Sasaki Associates in Boston. They have done a lot of large scale master plans and also specialize in sports venues. They did the Bejing Olympics, and a BC mater plan recently to name a few. That said, there is a new master plan created about every 5-8 years. There was recently one done by Ayers Saint Gross of Baltimore (Gross is an SU grad) and Bohlin Cywinski Jackson, done about the same time they designed Eggers Hall. It is pretty frequent that very little actual building comes out of these. One building and some landscape projects at most. This is where the Grove and the new Slocum bus stop came from and eventually the new science building. As to research, this is typically scientific/medical research. SU really has no substantial science facilities compared to most other major universities.

Syverud is from Wash.U in St.Louis, where research and federal funding make that university. Wash U also has great programs in things like Architecture, but their academic prowess is from their research and med. programs. Many high academic universities have separate "research" or "science" quads. It seems feasible that without the real estate to do this en mass on the main campus, this could easily take the land at Skytop, especially if the Dome stays. The "Center For Excellence" on Erie was primarily state funded and is indicative of the type of growth the state wants to invest in and is willing to incentivize. This facility focuses on environmental and building technology research to advance green design and building techniques. I assume there is a "lease agreement" that the state funds lower rent on the research, but gets a piece of any product or patent that comes out of it. The true intent is to keep high tech jobs in NY and specifically in the "upstate" regions.

The hard roof on the Dome is a BIG challenge, no matter how appropriate. There is no room to add substantial structure for that roof. Wind uploads and snow live loads are likely ot be immense in that area, and with the "surprise" Buffalo storm, those requirements are likely ot increase, as we tend to be very reactionary. I believe the Gov. has already said he wants to create a NY weather service independent of the National Weather Service, and twice its currnet NY footprint (2x the weather reporting stations).

SU broke ground on the Syracuse University Research Park up at Skytop about 15 or 20 years ago. The brick gateway to the park is still there. SU was going to be in the forefront of chip research and development and was involved with plasma chip research. Somehow we missed out though. Global Foundaries built their first unit in Malta and are planning a chip corridor with their second unit slated for the Utica area. Congel wanted to get a "Green Energy"research park started about 10 years ago but that ran into roadblocks with the County. Maybe that's a direction the University could go in.

 

[CuseOnly]

The Master Plan is being done by Sasaki Associates in Boston. They have done a lot of large scale master plans and also specialize in sports venues. They did the Bejing Olympics, and a BC mater plan recently to name a few. That said, there is a new master plan created about every 5-8 years. There was recently one done by Ayers Saint Gross of Baltimore (Gross is an SU grad) and Bohlin Cywinski Jackson, done about the same time they designed Eggers Hall. It is pretty frequent that very little actual building comes out of these. One building and some landscape projects at most. This is where the Grove and the new Slocum bus stop came from and eventually the new science building. As to research, this is typically scientific/medical research. SU really has no substantial science facilities compared to most other major universities.

Syverud is from Wash.U in St.Louis, where research and federal funding make that university. Wash U also has great programs in things like Architecture, but their academic prowess is from their research and med. programs. Many high academic universities have separate "research" or "science" quads. It seems feasible that without the real estate to do this en mass on the main campus, this could easily take the land at Skytop, especially if the Dome stays. The "Center For Excellence" on Erie was primarily state funded and is indicative of the type of growth the state wants to invest in and is willing to incentivize. This facility focuses on environmental and building technology research to advance green design and building techniques. I assume there is a "lease agreement" that the state funds lower rent on the research, but gets a piece of any product or patent that comes out of it. The true intent is to keep high tech jobs in NY and specifically in the "upstate" regions.

The hard roof on the Dome is a BIG challenge, no matter how appropriate. There is no room to add substantial structure for that roof. Wind uploads and snow live loads are likely ot be immense in that area, and with the "surprise" Buffalo storm, those requirements are likely ot increase, as we tend to be very reactionary. I believe the Gov. has already said he wants to create a NY weather service independent of the National Weather Service, and twice its currnet NY footprint (2x the weather reporting stations).

No offense/disrespect intended but why is it such a huge undertaking that the Dome can't handle a Rigid roof structure?

There are hundreds of new materials in the last 10-15 years that are now available, translucent and otherwise. Much lighter than anything used in the past. So much so that Minnesota, another Northern city with cold and snowfall is placing a rigid roof on it's new Dome seeing the obvious folly of the type of roof structure that we are still using.

Seems engineers for the Vikings figured out something translucent that can handle the weight of snow, that naturally heats the structure to keep snow off/melted. It is angled differently than most domes to contribute to keeping the weight off the roof as well as keeping it clean.

http://www.vikings.com/stadium/new-stadium/

Looks to me like they are placing trusses to support the roof on concrete and rebar just like the Dome is made of.

Why can't SU just hire the same design and engineering firm.

 

[AZOrange]

I expect news on that front by the end of the spring semester. Buh-bye, current SUCOL administration.

Really? What's shakin? I u don't mind me askin

 

[OttoMets]

Really? What's shakin? I u don't mind me askin

The current administration worked hard to raise funds for the new building but they've done a poor job running the school. It's my understanding that Hannah Arterian and those around her were to be given a year to bask in the glow of opening the new school, then be put out.

Many faculty, staff, and alumni are anxiously counting down the days. Some of SUCOL's top administrators are the most miserable people I've ever met. A black mark on the university. Syverud knows how to do a better job and he'll bring in the right people to carry that out. I'm optimistic.

 

[xc84]

No offense/disrespect intended but why is it such a huge undertaking that the Dome can't handle a Rigid roof structure?

There are hundreds of new materials in the last 10-15 years that are now available, translucent and otherwise. Much lighter than anything used in the past. So much so that Minnesota, another Northern city with cold and snowfall is placing a rigid roof on it's new Dome seeing the obvious folly of the type of roof structure that we are still using.

Seems engineers for the Vikings figured out something translucent that can handle the weight of snow, that naturally heats the structure to keep snow off/melted. It is angled differently than most domes to contribute to keeping the weight off the roof as well as keeping it clean.

http://www.vikings.com/stadium/new-stadium/

Looks to me like they are placing trusses to support the roof on concrete and rebar just like the Dome is made of.

Why can't SU just hire the same design and engineering firm.

The Carrier dome was not built to hold a rigid roof and it won't. That is well-established. The new Minnesota dome is built to support one. See BC Place for the cost of conversion (>$500M). True, that one has a lot of bells and whistles but figure about $200M for the trusses and roof. The Carrier Dome at $26M was hardly folly.

 

[CuseOnly]

The Carrier dome was not built to hold a rigid roof and it won't. That is well-established. The new Minnesota dome is built to support one. See BC Place for the cost of conversion (>$500M). True, that one has a lot of bells and whistles but figure about $200M for the trusses and roof. The Carrier Dome at $26M was hardly folly.

The Minnesota Vikings will not be a hard roof, it will not be air supported. It will be a Polymer/Fabric called ETFE, not anywhere near rigid. Same Polymer as the Allianz stadium and the Water Cube in China. You should look it up, see below.

http://www.vikings.com/news/article...ear-Roof/dff31d45-bc82-41ec-b768-2ef03827bbe7

http://www.britishplastics.co.uk/blogs/guest-blog/my-first-week-in-plastics-efte/

http://blogs.mprnews.org/stadium-wa...stadium-take-a-cue-from-the-beijing-olympics/

 

[KellySyracuse]

So if people think that SU is cheap when investing in the football team what makes anyone think they'll invest significant dollars in the dome? I don't think any big upgrades happen without state money invested, just like when it was built in the 1980's. I just don't see it happening without a new structure and I'm not sure SU wants to keep setting money aside to pay for a roof on a stadium using technology that was outdated by the mid 90's.

 

[CuseOnly]

So if people think that SU is cheap when investing in the football team what makes anyone think they'll invest significant dollars in the dome? I don't think any big upgrades happen without state money invested, just like when it was built in the 1980's. I just don't see it happening without a new structure and I'm not sure SU wants to keep setting money aside to pay for a roof on a stadium using technology that was outdated by the mid 90's.

IMO the Dome being partially funded by the state in 1980 was the perfect storm and won't happen again, just saying. If Mayor (dolt) Miner can so easily scrap a half billion dollar investment in the city of Syracuse, then that is reason enough to believe it won't happen.

Refurbishing the Dome is pretty much the only avenue.

When was the last time the State invested in a private venture that they had no stake in or that had the ability of any return on their investment? That would be like me and you buying our neighbors and addition on their house...what is the point?

In this day and age, that doesn't exist.

 

[Moontan]

When was the last time the State invested in a private venture that they had no stake in or that had the ability of any return on their investment? That would be like me and you buying our neighbors and addition on their house...what is the point?

Allowing the state to use the Dome X times per year with split concessions could work if they had enough (3-4 annual?) large events to be hosted.

Just like you helping your neighbor's addition which includes a night club... which you could use 4-6 nights per year. Your wife won't let you build a nightclub in your house, but you so much want one.

 

[KellySyracuse]

IMO the Dome being partially funded by the state in 1980 was the perfect storm and won't happen again, just saying. If Mayor (dolt) Miner can so easily scrap a half billion dollar investment in the city of Syracuse, then that is reason enough to believe it won't happen.

Refurbishing the Dome is pretty much the only avenue.

When was the last time the State invested in a private venture that they had no stake in or that had the ability of any return on their investment? That would be like me and you buying our neighbors and addition on their house...what is the point?

In this day and age, that doesn't exist.

valid point but why would the university invest money into a facility that is using a structurally outdated and inefficient roof? There are only so many times you can put a band aid on a wound and an air supported roof is a that so to speak. I'm not saying it won't happen but I have to venture a guess that the university is looking at other options.

 

[CuseOnly]

Allowing the state to use the Dome X times per year with split concessions could work if they had enough (3-4 annual?) large events to be hosted.

Just like you helping your neighbor's addition which includes a night club... which you could use 4-6 nights per year. Your wife won't let you build a nightclub in your house, but you so much want one.

If I was going to build an addition with a night club, I would build it on my own house complete with stripper poles and such.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Allowing the state to use the Dome X times per year with split concessions could work if they had enough (3-4 annual?) large events to be hosted.

Just like you helping your neighbor's addition which includes a night club... which you could use 4-6 nights per year. Your wife won't let you build a nightclub in your house, but you so much want one.

is that why they booked the Billy Joel concert? There has to be a reason considering the university hasn't been inclined to host any major concerts for the past decade or two

 

[CuseOnly]

valid point but why would the university invest money into a facility that is using a structurally outdated and inefficient roof? There are only so many times you can put a band aid on a wound and an air supported roof is a that so to speak. I'm not saying it won't happen but I have to venture a guess that the university is looking at other options.

Other options being a different roof that won't need replacing or a different roof that needs replacing less often you mean. They still own the building, they just need to bring it into the modern era. The other option (which was shot down) is to rent from the state, own nothing and have zero control over the facility.

 

[CuseOnly]

is that why they booked the Billy Joel concert? There has to be a reason considering the university hasn't been inclined to host any major concerts for the past decade or two

Billy Joel wants a record (most performance or some such nonsense) and loves NY and Syracuse, that is why he is playing here.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Billy Joel wants a record (most performance or some such nonsense) and loves NY and Syracuse, that is why he is playing here.

really, I didn't read that anywhere. I know that he holds a record at MSG and can probably sell out just about anywhere else he plays but I guess it probably is for some record setting thing

 

[Moontan]

really, I didn't read that anywhere. I know that he holds a record at MSG and can probably sell out just about anywhere else he plays but I guess it probably is for some record setting thing

They may even move the court(err, stage) to the center of the Dome for this one.

* I saw his concert in the Dome in 1989/90 ... yes, I'm old.

 

[Toga]

They may even move the court(err, stage) to the center of the Dome for this one.

* I saw his concert in the Dome in 1989/90 ... yes, I'm old.

Yeah well ... 1977 in Tucson.

 

[Toga]

really, I didn't read that anywhere. I know that he holds a record at MSG and can probably sell out just about anywhere else he plays but I guess it probably is for some record setting thing

Holds the record at the Times Union Center in Albany.

 

[nccusefan]

I expect news on that front by the end of the spring semester.

Buh-bye, current SUCOL administration.

I was at Chapel Hill on Saturday, really no different than us.

Chapel Hill is terrible for tailgating. When I've gone to games we have parked in a garage and walked to a college bar before going to the game.

Personally I hope we look to replace the Dome. It was great in the 80s and 90s but it is extremely outdated. For the cost and time it would take to make it a first rate facility we could get a new state of the art stadium that would help with recruiting.

 

[Ottoble]

I hope the University at least makes an effort to investigate the possibility of integrating Upstate and ESF into SU as Statutory Colleges, much like Alfred and Cornell have. It certainly helps both the perception of the institutions and the bottom lines. An entirely different topic, but SUNY should seriously investigate some consolidation moves, but political pressure will make sure that never happens...

One of a few things I have heard over the years... oh I really liked Syracuse but I was thinking I wanted to do premed and its not really a clear program and there's no med or even nursing school for med classes...I wholeheartedly agree upstarted and ESF should be statutory inclusions it would grow campus deversify major offerings improve the alumni base. SUNY Upstate Medical center at Syracuse University. We want doctors and nurses as a part of our alumni base it is a lifetime career and healthcare is a huge industry that we are neglecting as a university.

For ESF there should be a combined SUESF Green Engineering and Buisness degree Mech/ Civil/ environmental Science/ entrepreneurship and a green buisness incubator run through the tech garden downtown.

 

[DoubleDee]

This Joel show will be his 7th, which is a record. Zac brown band played about a year or so ago as well, but shows have been few and far between.

 

[Ottoble]

No offense/disrespect intended but why is it such a huge undertaking that the Dome can't handle a Rigid roof structure?

There are hundreds of new materials in the last 10-15 years that are now available, translucent and otherwise. Much lighter than anything used in the past. So much so that Minnesota, another Northern city with cold and snowfall is placing a rigid roof on it's new Dome seeing the obvious folly of the type of roof structure that we are still using.

Seems engineers for the Vikings figured out something translucent that can handle the weight of snow, that naturally heats the structure to keep snow off/melted. It is angled differently than most domes to contribute to keeping the weight off the roof as well as keeping it clean.

http://www.vikings.com/stadium/new-stadium/

Looks to me like they are placing trusses to support the roof on concrete and rebar just like the Dome is made of.

Why can't SU just hire the same design and engineering firm.

Current dome is air supported so the air pressure acts as the columns and beams holding the roof and spreading the roof load evenly down to the floor structure if you remove the pressure all the weight of the roof and snow sits concentrated on the existing perimeter columns and foundations, not designed for it. Added to this providing a new structure, like a large arched truss, to carry the roof at +130ft spans adds additional structure self weight to these columns and foundations.

One poster noted an external frame would be the most likely approach and he was on the right track. Now if they are expanding concessions and services, that external frame could be integrated into the expansion.

 

[xc84]

The Minnesota Vikings will not be a hard roof, it will not be air supported. It will be a Polymer/Fabric called ETFE, not anywhere near rigid. Same Polymer as the Allianz stadium and the Water Cube in China. You should look it up, see below.

http://www.vikings.com/news/article...ear-Roof/dff31d45-bc82-41ec-b768-2ef03827bbe7

http://www.britishplastics.co.uk/blogs/guest-blog/my-first-week-in-plastics-efte/

http://blogs.mprnews.org/stadium-wa...stadium-take-a-cue-from-the-beijing-olympics/

Of course it won't be a "hard roof". Neither is the BC Place roof. They still need rigid support that the Carrier dome structure can't provide at the moment. I am well aware of the Minnesota dome which is being built (at a cost of $1B) to support such a roof.

Just look at the Vikings dome. Pay particular attention to the massive structure that supports the roof that needs to be supported by the stadium walls.
http://www.newminnesotastadium.com/