The Head Coach has been the issue since Day 1

[DoctahLexus]

We had exquisite talent…but you can’t tell me that historically jbs team didn’t suffer from effort, focus work ethic type issues.

I'll put it this way - there is a reason there are still die hard fans in here dissecting a team that has been asz for 10 years. There is a reason I live and breathe this sheeit to this day despite how bad it has been. Because we had a freaking standard and left it all out on the floor in an elite conference that took no prisoners. Holy crap I cannot believe that people are here throwing the past under the bus because the present is terrible. Here is one. Maybe I need to post some more to refresh some peoples memory. I'm sure a pile of rocks coaching would have got the same result. Take a look at all the lack of focus effort and work ethic:

 

[AZOrange]

That's why they only won 75% of the time, instead of 100%, which we all know they should have.

I think looking at it overall is one way. But JB also filled up with cupcakes too. I would look more at league records and such. It was a consistent pattern amongst our best teams talent wise. Anything else is revisionist

 

[AZOrange]

I'll put it this way - there is a reason there are still die hard fans in here dissecting a team that has been asz for 10 years. There is a reason I live and breathe this sheeit to this day despite how bad it has been. Because we had a freaking standard and left it all out on the floor in an elite conference that took no prisoners. Holy crap I cannot believe that people are here throwing the past under the bus because the present is terrible. Here is one. Maybe I need to post some more to refresh some peoples memory. I'm sure a pile of rocks coaching would have got the same result. Take a look at all the lack of focus effort and work ethic:

How about we just let the year play out. Red clearly has talent and if he doesn’t perform it will work out accordingly. I have more hope here than others.

 

[DoctahLexus]

How about we just let the year play out. Red clearly has talent and if he doesn’t perform it will work out accordingly. I have more hope here than others.

Gladly. But I will say with my chest that our effort was not an issue under JB. I strongly disagree with that. This fanbase does not exist without the effort he demanded of his players.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Gladly. But I will say with my chest that our effort was not an issue under JB. I strongly disagree with that. This fanbase does not exist without the effort he demanded of his players.

They slept walked through many exhibition games. I remember a total snooze against LeMoyne. I remember not showing up against Cleveland State and losing at the buzzer. People are just conveniently forgetting some horrible efforts under JB.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I think looking at it overall is one way. But JB also filled up with cupcakes too. I would look more at league records and such. It was a consistent pattern amongst our best teams talent wise. Anything else is revisionist

10 big east regular season titles under JB by the way. All without effort focus and a plan. We must have produced a record number of allstar NBA players in that time. Oh wait.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I'll put it this way - there is a reason there are still die hard fans in here dissecting a team that has been asz for 10 years. There is a reason I live and breathe this sheeit to this day despite how bad it has been. Because we had a freaking standard and left it all out on the floor in an elite conference that took no prisoners. Holy crap I cannot believe that people are here throwing the past under the bus because the present is terrible. Here is one. Maybe I need to post some more to refresh some peoples memory. I'm sure a pile of rocks coaching would have got the same result. Take a look at all the lack of focus effort and work ethic:

It’s ironic that people complain about coaching and they said Louisville “melted” down the stretch. I thought they were coached by the greatest of all time, Rick Pitino. I’m sure Rick coached them to turn it over down the stretch. Players have to play and execute. Red’s team has not played a regular season game yet and people are already trashing him and his team. Let’s see what they look like in a month or so before we pass judgment. I have questions, but it’s too early to jump off a cliff.

 

[Cusefan0307]

They slept walked through many exhibition games. I remember a total snooze against LeMoyne. I remember not showing up against Cleveland State and losing at the buzzer. People are just conveniently forgetting some horrible efforts under JB.

I understand the Lemoyne example, but that Cleveland State team was KP# 66 and it still took a ridiculously lucky shot to beat us. I think it’s fair to be concerned about the product the coach put out last night. It’s probably or most talented squad since the 2016 FF team.

 

[Eric15]

Hypothetical question: let’s say we are majorly improved this year, but we are one of the first teams that miss the NCAA tourney and we are a #1 seed in the NIT. Does Red deserve Year 4 in this scenario?

 

[hoopsupstate]

I understand the Lemoyne example, but that Cleveland State team was KP# 66 and it still took a ridiculously lucky shot to beat us. I think it’s fair to be concerned about the product the coach put out last night. It’s probably or most talented squad since the 2016 FF team.

I remember that was after Arinze just gave us our first lead and they chucked up a three quarter shot. Very depressing finish. They were pretty good and well coached. After our first two games, my biggest concern is the poor guard play from all of our guards. Poor shooting and poor decision making. What gives me hope is they are proven players at this level and will eventually get it together.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Hypothetical question: let’s say we are majorly improved this year, but we are one of the first teams that miss the NCAA tourney and we are a #1 seed in the NIT. Does Red deserve Year 4 in this scenario?

JW will say “yes”

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Some people aren't meant for a leadership role. That goes for Corp America, College Hoops and on and on.

 

[RedtheGOB]

Hypothetical question: let’s say we are majorly improved this year, but we are one of the first teams that miss the NCAA tourney and we are a #1 seed in the NIT. Does Red deserve Year 4 in this scenario?

Never.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Hypothetical question: let’s say we are majorly improved this year, but we are one of the first teams that miss the NCAA tourney and we are a #1 seed in the NIT. Does Red deserve Year 4 in this scenario?

Hell no. There’s 5 former top 45 HS players on this roster. It would still be underachieving.

 

[AngryOtto]

Unfortunately I think you are right, and Red will be gone as a coach. There is no way JJ should have played 30 minutes last night. 15 minutes might have been too much.

This is also something I did not understand. The first two games it seems Kingz was getting limited minutes. Can in towards the end of the game and did well. From what I saw I would have him at sg but you have JJ and Anthony.

 

[Sherman20]

I hate to break it to ya but it’s exactly Syracuse basketball historically

JB didn’t lack focus, intensity, a plan or system. He had all of those things in spades—until his final years when he got lackadaisical about recruiting and didn’t want to make bigger changes to the offense and defense. His offense wasn’t innovative but it did the job. He got the ball in the best players hands and we created turnovers and transition points out of the zone, traps, and pressure defense. He’s a HOF coach and one of the greatest and most consistent to ever do it. I have my issues with JB, but what you’re saying isn’t true at all, until his final few years.

 

[Sherman20]

That’s not what he said.

What he said was true, at least since I started watching in ‘85. Boeheim teams took a lot for granted, seemingly were unmotivated until ‘provoked,’ and won on sheer talent disparity. As for the “system,” JB hisself [sic] said a few times something like SU ‘had only about ten plays, because players couldn’t remember more than that.’

When we were in the BE, every year, we were in the top three in terms of talent. The results were unsurprisingly commensurate.

Ah, I see, you’re one of those longtime fans who always complained about JB, even after all his decades of success, and just chalked it up to us having more talent than most teams. Duly noted. Nearly every one of JB’s peers in the coaching profession would disagree with you.

 

[Sherman20]

Used to be an asst at UBuffalo before becoming the HC at Arkansas St.

Hodgson was also one of the top recruiters in the country under Nate Oats at Alabama.

 

[Sherman20]

I'll put it this way - there is a reason there are still die hard fans in here dissecting a team that has been asz for 10 years. There is a reason I live and breathe this sheeit to this day despite how bad it has been. Because we had a freaking standard and left it all out on the floor in an elite conference that took no prisoners. Holy crap I cannot believe that people are here throwing the past under the bus because the present is terrible. Here is one. Maybe I need to post some more to refresh some peoples memory. I'm sure a pile of rocks coaching would have got the same result. Take a look at all the lack of focus effort and work ethic:

That game (taking down #1 on the road) is one of my all time favorites. Crazy that we won it without Southerland, who was almost like a 6th starter on that team. I had forgotten that. We should have beaten Michigan in the Final Four and been playing another rematch with Louisville in the National title game.

 

[baggerbob]

We had exquisite talent…but you can’t tell me that historically jbs team didn’t suffer from effort, focus work ethic type issues.

The Orr , Bouie, and the DC years effort, focus, and work ethic were fine. Wallace senior year was fine. A lot of the rest JB just rolled the ball out and let them play.

 

[Eric15]

They slept walked through many exhibition games. I remember a total snooze against LeMoyne. I remember not showing up against Cleveland State and losing at the buzzer. People are just conveniently forgetting some horrible efforts under JB.

I wouldn't take much away from that one weird game. It's basketball -- sometimes you lose. We started 16-1 that year including three Top 25 wins away from the Dome.

 

[Surfan06001]

I wouldn't take much away from that one weird game. It's basketball -- sometimes you lose. We started 16-1 that year including three Top 25 wins away from the Dome.

This one I have no recollection of

Syracuse 72-65 Memphis (Dec 20, 2008) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Syracuse Orange vs. Memphis Tigers NCAAM game from December 20, 2008 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.

www.espn.com

 

[OmahaCuse]

I wouldn't take much away from that one weird game. It's basketball -- sometimes you lose. We started 16-1 that year including three Top 25 wins away from the Dome.

Agree and you are playing a bunch of “small players” which creates strange matchups. We won by almost 20 and shot poorly from 3 thats mostly a good sign

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Ah, I see, you’re one of those longtime fans who always complained about JB, even after all his decades of success, and just chalked it up to us having more talent than most teams. Duly noted. Nearly every one of JB’s peers in the coaching profession would disagree with you.

I’m one of those longtime fans capable of objectivity.

Not sure why you would take peers’ public statements about one of their own at face value. What would you expect them to say? But maybe you’re one of ‘those people.’

Meanwhile, you haven’t actually contradicted the assertion that we had top three talent. “Decades of success” were appreciated, which is why it’s easy to contrast the current state of affairs. If they hadn’t been observed, do you think there would be much rationale or justification in ‘demanding’ better performance now?

I’m not a simple person. I have a great deal of mixed feelings about the program. Trying to paint me as singleminded (defending someone else’s position!) is really just a reflection of yourself.

 

[phil77]

Hypothetical question: let’s say we are majorly improved this year, but we are one of the first teams that miss the NCAA tourney and we are a #1 seed in the NIT. Does Red deserve Year 4 in this scenario?

It has been said tournament or bust many times over; it doesn't matter how close you get if you don't make it.