The old Big East | Syracusefan.com

The old Big East

FloridaFan

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So I was discussing football with friends and we got to talking about the old big east and penn state and whether or not it would have saved the BE from poaching. We ended up figuring that we would lose Miami and VT but we would end up keeping temple leaving us with. Pitt,BC,WVU,Cinci,Us,PSU,Louisville,Temple,Uconn and Rutgers. We figured we would be similar to the Pac12 in terms of relevance today with this conference:

What is everyone’s take on the possibility?
 
So I was discussing football with friends and we got to talking about the old big east and penn state and whether or not it would have saved the BE from poaching. We ended up figuring that we would lose Miami and VT but we would end up keeping temple leaving us with. Pitt,BC,WVU,Cinci,Us,PSU,Louisville,Temple,Uconn and Rutgers. We figured we would be similar to the Pac12 in terms of relevance today with this conference:

What is everyone’s take on the possibility?
I don’t see how adding PSU would save Temple.
 
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So I was discussing football with friends and we got to talking about the old big east and penn state and whether or not it would have saved the BE from poaching. We ended up figuring that we would lose Miami and VT but we would end up keeping temple leaving us with. Pitt,BC,WVU,Cinci,Us,PSU,Louisville,Temple,Uconn and Rutgers. We figured we would be similar to the Pac12 in terms of relevance today with this conference:

What is everyone’s take on the possibility?
The idea of adding UConn or Rutgers to anything worthwhile is nauseating
Psu adds the cache
Louisville just reminds me of road rash, cincy eh idk. Wvu is such a horrendous demo but history I guess
 
So I was discussing football with friends and we got to talking about the old big east and penn state and whether or not it would have saved the BE from poaching. We ended up figuring that we would lose Miami and VT but we would end up keeping temple leaving us with. Pitt,BC,WVU,Cinci,Us,PSU,Louisville,Temple,Uconn and Rutgers. We figured we would be similar to the Pac12 in terms of relevance today with this conference:

What is everyone’s take on the possibility?

Wasn’t Temple ousted from Big East football? From what I recall they didn’t leave. My memory may be playing tricks on me but Temple back then wasn’t the same program it became after Al Golden became coach which was already after BC, VT etc had already left the Big East for the ACC.
 
PSU would have been poached by the B1G at the earliest possibility.

Besides, there's no way that JoePa would have ever allowed his football team to play in a conference controlled by Gavitt in the first place. He always wanted to run his own football league.
 
A league with Miami and Ped St doesn't get poached by the ACC for FB reasons at any point. Shalala did it more for academics so they might have still left. I think Ped St turns down the B1G and sticks to their east coast roots where they can get almost any kid and where their alums tend to live. It would have been great apart from the fact that uconn would still be in a major conference. So what we have now is better them.

Remember with no Ped St the B1G might not have been able to convince Nebby to turn their back on their historic rivals and the recruiting grounds that made them a super power.
 
Wasn’t Temple ousted from Big East football? From what I recall they didn’t leave. My memory may be playing tricks on me but Temple back then wasn’t the same program it became after Al Golden became coach which was already after BC, VT etc had already left the Big East for the ACC.

Temple was booted in 2004 for failure to meet attendance requirements. They were replaced by UConn.

Ironic that the Old BE begged Temple to return in 2012 when the mass defections began.
 
Would’ve loved a conference like us, psu, bc, Pitt, Maryland, va tech and (fill in the blank bs 2 schools)

blanks with Miami, Florida State, and West Virginia. Keep those historic rivalaries (Miami vs. FSU; Pitt vs. WVU; Syracuse vs. State Penn
 
I’ve pondered this kind of question a lot over the years, because I’ve always longed for a true, northeastern, all sports conference. Ultimately I’m not sure that could have been a long term thing, since there just aren’t enough large-fan-base teams in our region to insulate a potential conference from being picked apart. Plus, as others have said, JoePa was a jerk who wanted to keep every other NE program under his thumb.

I suppose there could have been an alternate reality where a football conference comprised of these teams existed: SU, PSU, BC, Pitt, Rutgers, Temple, Army, Navy, WVU. But not all of them could have been part of the BE hoops conference (service academies wouldn’t have wanted in, Temple was a no-go for Nova, etc).

I’ve read that around 1990 there was an effort by a media company (I think Jefferson Pilot) to create a mega league from the independents that ran up and down the east coast. Something like: Florida State, Miami, South Carolina, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, Syracuse, BC, Pitt, etc. I believe it was 16 teams. Obviously it never came to be.

All things considered we ended up in the best place for us given the consolidated environment. I’d have preferred that Maryland stayed so we’d have 4 northern teams instead of 3. But the ACC is a pretty great home for us given the alternatives. Still would ideally prefer a true northeastern league but what can you do. That dream probably died in the 50s and 60s when the private school football “powers” de-prioritized their programs (Holy Cross, Colgate, Fordham, and the like).
 
Let's take a trip in the wayback machine...

The Original Founding Fathers of the BE were Providence, St Johns, Georgetown, and Syracuse in 1979.

They wanted two teams along the Amtrak Corridor between NYC and DC and they originally approached both Temple and Rutgers. Both school declined, because they wanted to be aligned with PSU. Penn State was never approached (maybe Gavitt didn't want to butt heads with JoePa on every single little issue). Villanova and Seton Hall ended up being Plan B.

The Original BE might have looked like this:
Boston College
UConn
Providence
Syracuse
St Johns
Rutgers
Temple
Penn St
Georgetown.

5 of the 8 had D1 football teams. There are no guarantees that this group would have made the leap into FBS football (remember, Gavitt was strictly a basketball guy). Pitt and WV would have been no-brainer additions, and there was chatter that JoePa might have convinced Maryland to come aboard.

IMO, the BE avoids getting into the football business for a long as possible, and JoePa jumps at the best offer to leave.

That's Alternative History #1.

Alternative History #2: PSU gets voted into the BE in 1982 for basketball and olympic sports. Again, the BE still doesn't do football, and PSU leaves anyways.
 
Let's take a trip in the wayback machine...

The Original Founding Fathers of the BE were Providence, St Johns, Georgetown, and Syracuse in 1979.

They wanted two teams along the Amtrak Corridor between NYC and DC and they originally approached both Temple and Rutgers. Both school declined, because they wanted to be aligned with PSU. Penn State was never approached (maybe Gavitt didn't want to butt heads with JoePa on every single little issue). Villanova and Seton Hall ended up being Plan B.

The Original BE might have looked like this:
Boston College
UConn
Providence
Syracuse
St Johns
Rutgers
Temple
Penn St
Georgetown.

5 of the 8 had D1 football teams. There are no guarantees that this group would have made the leap into FBS football (remember, Gavitt was strictly a basketball guy). Pitt and WV would have been no-brainer additions, and there was chatter that JoePa might have convinced Maryland to come aboard.

IMO, the BE avoids getting into the football business for a long as possible, and JoePa jumps at the best offer to leave.

That's Alternative History #1.

Alternative History #2: PSU gets voted into the BE in 1982 for basketball and olympic sports. Again, the BE still doesn't do football, and PSU leaves anyways.
I dont believe Penn St doesn't even entertain the idea of joining with out some kinda commitment on the BE's part to football.
 
I dont believe Penn St doesn't even entertain the idea of joining with out some kinda commitment on the BE's part to football.
The idea that was always mentioned was that JoePa wanted an all-sports conference for the old Eastern Independents to join and not just a basketball conference that also sponsored the minimum number of sports to be considered a conference under NCAA rules. That pretty much would have shut out the urban Catholic schools that are in the present Big East.

I will not vouch for the veracity of that in any way, shape, or form. I will also not claim that he didn't have a hidden agenda to exploit that conference for the greater glory of PSU. It just was what was constantly mentioned as his view of the Big East.
 
The idea that was always mentioned was that JoePa wanted an all-sports conference for the old Eastern Independents to join and not just a basketball conference that also sponsored the minimum number of sports to be considered a conference under NCAA rules. That pretty much would have shut out the urban Catholic schools that are in the present Big East.

I will not vouch for the veracity of that in any way, shape, or form. I will also not claim that he didn't have a hidden agenda to exploit that conference for the greater glory of PSU. It just was what was constantly mentioned as his view of the Big East.

JoePa's conference would have included BC, SU, Temple, Rutgers, Pitt, WV, and either Maryland or Va Tech.

He had some strange ideas about revenue sharing. He wanted all the teams in his conference to share revenue for all sports ... except football.

When Syracuse sold 20,000 tickets to a basketball game, we'd have to share ticket and concession revenue with the rest of the conference. However, when PSU sold 110,000 football tickets, JoePa wanted to keep every dime for himself.

Such a deal. :rolleyes:
 
The old Big What? Good riddance. We are soooooooooooooo much better off now. Don't recall ever selling out single game seats to Miami or VT in May prior to the start of the season. Sat night prime game? We are proving we have a legitimate place in the ACC. No reason to look back.
 
Don't miss the Big East. We are in a great situation for the future. Great schools great footprint.

Indeed! Forward thinking...we couldn't have landed in a better and more fortunate spot. Let the UConn's of the world spin and stay stuck in the rear view mud.
 
The idea that was always mentioned was that JoePa wanted an all-sports conference for the old Eastern Independents to join and not just a basketball conference that also sponsored the minimum number of sports to be considered a conference under NCAA rules. That pretty much would have shut out the urban Catholic schools that are in the present Big East.

I will not vouch for the veracity of that in any way, shape, or form. I will also not claim that he didn't have a hidden agenda to exploit that conference for the greater glory of PSU. It just was what was constantly mentioned as his view of the Big East.
Yes, Paterno wanted an all sports conference for the East. This was what the region needed. Given his position and power, Paterno was well positioned to make it happen. Unfortunately, Paterno was a highly flawed man who thought he could railroad the rest of the schools in the East to agree to a conference where Penn State got highly preferential treatment, made all the decisions and kept most of the money.

His lack of integrity, wisdom and political acumen left a void Dave Gavitt was more than happy to step in and fill. Despite his relative lack of standing as the PC basketball czar, Dave had all things Paterno lacked and made the Big East happen based largely on his own charm and wit.

I agree with Jake Crouthamel about Penn State. Penn State is fundamentally different than the rest of the schools that were once Eastern Independents. Football is everything to that school. They don't really care about other sports and their support for football is blind and cult-like.

It is a huge land grant school who will do anything to win football games. It has little in common with other schools in the East and everything in common with the B1G, a conference where everyone cheats all the time, there are no morals, and major scandals happen regularly, are expected and considered a cost of doing business.

Penn State was destined to end up in the B1G. Even if Paterno had common sense and set reasonable terms the other Eastern Independents could have agreed to, they would have left the minute the B1G expressed interest in them.

Syracuse is in a conference with schools similar to it. The schools have similar sizes to Syracuse. Many are private, like Syracuse. The sports Syracuse fans care about are important and valued by other ACC schools. It is relatively easy to get to many ACC campuses and there are many SU fans living in areas where ACC schools are located.

I would love the ability to have an easy drive to road games for football or basketball a bunch of times each year. I miss that. I miss the BET in MSG. The Big East was great for SU sports. But with the changes in college sports, the time came where it no longer make sense to stay there. We, like Penn State, are where we belong.

I am not so sure about Maryland or Rutgers. Or even UConn for that matter.
 
Yes, Paterno wanted an all sports conference for the East. This was what the region needed. Given his position and power, Paterno was well positioned to make it happen. Unfortunately, Paterno was a highly flawed man who thought he could railroad the rest of the schools in the East to agree to a conference where Penn State got highly preferential treatment, made all the decisions and kept most of the money.

minus the money part that sounds like the Carolina mafia
 
minus the money part that sounds like the Carolina mafia
The four North Carolina schools make up just shy of 27% of the ACC and 28.6% of the football schools. I went to grad school at Duke and, from my experience, they seldom all agree on anything. Since it takes 75% to change the constitution or bylaws and to add or kick out a member, it doesn't sound like much of a Mafia to me. ;)
 
If you didn't live through it or if your memory is clouded, you may want to read Jake Crouthamel's piece on the formation of the Big East.

I have never been a fan of Jake's, but his is a fair representation of what happened and to an extent why it happened.


As attractve as Paterno's All Sports Conference was, no one was going to kill the highly successful Big East.
 
I dont believe Penn St doesn't even entertain the idea of joining with out some kinda commitment on the BE's part to football.
Didn’t they apply in the early 80’s, when they were in the A10?
 
The four North Carolina schools make up just shy of 27% of the ACC and 28.6% of the football schools. I went to grad school at Duke and, from my experience, they seldom all agree on anything. Since it takes 75% to change the constitution or bylaws and to add or kick out a member, it doesn't sound like much of a Mafia to me. ;)
Yeah, the NC schools would give mobsters a bad name.
 

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