The PAT (No, Not That One)

[RF2044]

Mathematically it makes sense, but I don’t think we were about to run a good play there. You going to be happy running Morgan out there for the conversion? I’m not sure Shrader would have been eligible because he had to be helped off the field and we were out of time outs.

i have no issues with kicking there.

Same. I understand the strategy / logic behind what is being suggested, but I can't say that I've ever seen any coach do what is being proposed. Would love to see some examples of such an approach [rolling out our third string QB who hasn't played a snap all season to run a two-point conversion] being employed.

I also don't recall ever seeing a team take a knee instead of trying convert the PAT. Not saying that it's never happened, but I've never seen it.

Circumstances matter, too. If Shrader hadn't gotten shellacked on the previous play, I'd expect that we would go for 2 there. Given that he got plastered, that wasn't an option.

 

[Chip]

Honestly, as a result of the earlier fiasco, I would've just taken a knee on the PAT. I know that the odds of another PAT being blocked and returned are incredibly slim, but if that were to happen, VT suddenly goes from needing a miracle touchdown to just having to get into FG range for a kick that wins them the game.

I don't care because we won. And I'm hindsighting of course, but yeah, I think you either go for 2 or you go for 0 by taking the knee.

Nothing good comes from kicking the XP, only potentially bad.

 

[Cuseman78]

I don't care because we won. And I'm hindsighting of course, but yeah, I think you either go for 2 or you go for 0 by taking the knee.

Nothing good comes from kicking the XP, only potentially bad.

Agreed. An elite game manager thinks through his possibilities and chooses either Door #1 (go for 2) or Door #2 (kneel). Door #3 (XP) has literally no upside and makes no sense. It also brings in slight risk (blocked kick with a shaky K).

I will say 99% of coaches would've done the same as Dino, but that also tells you which % of HC's are elite game managers.

 

[donniesyracuse]

You going to be happy running Morgan out there for the conversion?

What was there to lose?

 

[Jake]

What was there to lose?

You’re going to put in a cold third string QB who probably just started getting reps this week and I’m sure none of those reps are a two point conversion try.

it’s a higher risk than getting the kick blocked If Morgan comes in, fumbles the snap or something else goes wrong and it’s returned for two points, you and the a whole bunch of others would be the first to criticize Dino for “putting in a player to execute a play he has not practiced” - he’s an idiot.

listen I get the math, but circumstances were unique. If Shrader doesn’t get the wind knocked out of him or we had a TO, I’d rather the two point try. But not with Morgan. Nope. Too much can go wrong.

 

[kcsu]

Why not snap the ball to Pena and have him start running towards our end zone take 7-10 seconds off the clock and simply go out of bounds at our 15 yard line.
Eat up the clock?
Ok just kick it

 

[Frozen]

Why not snap the ball to Pena and have him start running towards our end zone take 7-10 seconds off the clock and simply go out of bounds at our 15 yard line.
Eat up the clock?
Ok just kick it

Clock?

 

[SU94]

You’re going to put in a cold third string QB who probably just started getting reps this week and I’m sure none of those reps are a two point conversion try.

it’s a higher risk than getting the kick blocked If Morgan comes in, fumbles the snap or something else goes wrong and it’s returned for two points, you and the a whole bunch of others would be the first to criticize Dino for “putting in a player to execute a play he has not practiced” - he’s an idiot.

listen I get the math, but circumstances were unique. If Shrader doesn’t get the wind knocked out of him or we had a TO, I’d rather the two point try. But not with Morgan. Nope. Too much can go wrong.

First of all, we all get the math. It’s nothing novel.

Two further points:
1/Why showcase any two-point play for BC or NCSU to digest there? We are going to need one somewhere along the line.

2/If I am Dino, I am doing ANYTHING REASONABLE to protect my meal ticket, who is named Garrett Schrader. We all saw how VT likes to indulge in cheap shots. Not a new phenomenon. Why risk that, in any way, for the 1/500 chance, especially when the Hokies have nothing to lose and only an opportunity to harm.
I bet all you naysayers are the types that when leading a baseball game 9-1 in the 9th would have the you closer getting hot in the bullpen.

 

[donniesyracuse]

you and the a whole bunch of others would be the first to criticize Dino for “putting in a player to execute a play he has not practiced” - he’s an idiot.

False

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You’re going to put in a cold third string QB who probably just started getting reps this week and I’m sure none of those reps are a two point conversion try.

it’s a higher risk than getting the kick blocked If Morgan comes in, fumbles the snap or something else goes wrong and it’s returned for two points, you and the a whole bunch of others would be the first to criticize Dino for “putting in a player to execute a play he has not practiced” - he’s an idiot.

listen I get the math, but circumstances were unique. If Shrader doesn’t get the wind knocked out of him or we had a TO, I’d rather the two point try. But not with Morgan. Nope. Too much can go wrong.

Fumbling a snap really? If Dino was following logic and math how can anyone be upset? If they are then they are dumber than the decision to kick the PAT.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

First of all, we all get the math. It’s nothing novel.

Two further points:
1/Why showcase any two-point play for BC or NCSU to digest there? We are going to need one somewhere along the line.

2/If I am Dino, I am doing ANYTHING REASONABLE to protect my meal ticket, who is named Garrett Schrader. We all saw how VT likes to indulge in cheap shots. Not a new phenomenon. Why risk that, in any way, for the 1/500 chance, especially when the Hokies have nothing to lose and only an opportunity to harm.
I bet all you naysayers are the types that when leading a baseball game 9-1 in the 9th would have the you closer getting hot in the bullpen.

People have been upset with Dino for making illogical decisions and decisions that do not follow math. Kicking the PAT is exactly those things. You don't have to call your best 2 pt play. We can go wildcat if Shrader is hurt and we are scared that Morgan cannot handle catching the shotgun snap. There is less risk in a handoff to Tucker than a kicked PAT. There is a significant advantage to handing the ball off than kicking the PAT. Literally taking a knee is a bigger advantage than kicking the PAT. Think about that. There is zero reason to kick the PAT.

 

[All4SU]

People have been upset with Dino for making illogical decisions and decisions that do not follow math. Kicking the PAT is exactly those things. You don't have to call your best 2 pt play. We can go wildcat if Shrader is hurt and we are scared that Morgan cannot handle catching the shotgun snap. There is less risk in a handoff to Tucker than a kicked PAT. There is a significant advantage to handing the ball off than kicking the PAT. Literally taking a knee is a bigger advantage than kicking the PAT. Think about that. There is zero reason to kick the PAT.

My only question is, Have you ever seen any team anywhere take a knee in that situation?

 

[donniesyracuse]

I get that VT could potentially have missed an XP, but I think that what you're suggesting might be overthinking it a bit.

Ha, recognizing it is better to be up by six than five is overthinking.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Fumbling a snap really? If Dino was following logic and math how can anyone be upset? If they are then they are dumber than the decision to kick the PAT.

Morgan was not some “emergency QB.” He was the backup QB going into the game. If concerns about your backup QB’s ability to catch a snap or run a play is impacting strategy, then that is a problem.

 

[Finwad32]

Under regular circumstances, you go for 2 there without question.

With Shrader getting lit up and Tommy D in his dorm room, I’m not sure I’m putting the next man up out there for the 2 pt. try. At best, maybe Wildcat if we’d practiced it.

I’m good with the 1 because of the situation.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Under regular circumstances, you go for 2 there without question.

With Shrader getting lit up and Tommy D in his dorm room, I’m not sure I’m putting the next man up out there for the 2 pt. try. At best, maybe Wildcat if we’d practiced it.

I’m good with the 1 because of the situation.

But is going for two really a riskier play than attempting an extra point?

 

[Finwad32]

But is going for two really a riskier play thank kicking an extra point?

Typically it’s negligible. I know I wouldn’t have expected another PAT to be blocked as a coach. So that makes the discussion a little more interesting.

If I’m running a play with QB3, 99.2 % chance I’m not letting him throw the ball. And that’s where the only real risk would be imo.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

My only question is, Have you ever seen any team anywhere take a knee in that situation?

No I am saying it for effect. Taking a knee is safer than kicking a PAT. Being up 4 is no different than 5. So if you are too scared to go for 2 then you should be equally scared to kick the PAT. Same risk with zero reward.

 

[AZOrange]

You absolutely 100 percent of the time go for 2 there. The difference between 4-5-6 is huge. Shoot this was a game we even had our own XP blocked. Even if you have a backup you run the play.

 

[AZOrange]

Typically it’s negligible. I know I wouldn’t have expected another PAT to be blocked as a coach. So that makes the discussion a little more interesting.

If I’m running a play with QB3, 99.2 % chance I’m not letting him throw the ball. And that’s where the only real risk would be imo.

Yeah it’s a rollout right or RPO left where he maybe has one option and then run

 

[AZOrange]

I don't care because we won. And I'm hindsighting of course, but yeah, I think you either go for 2 or you go for 0 by taking the knee.

Nothing good comes from kicking the XP, only potentially bad.

Or in the case of our Special Teams “really bad”

 

[donniesyracuse]

If I’m running a play with QB3, 99.2 % chance I’m not letting him throw the ball. And that’s where the only real risk would be imo.

It's QB2, not QB3.

 

[Finwad32]

It's QB2, not QB3.

Well sure, now… not two weeks ago. Semantics.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Well sure, now… not two weeks ago. Semantics.

The guy was QB2 for at least a week going into the game. My understanding is that QB2 is expected to be ready to go in when called upon. He is also a second-year guy who has started games against P5 opponents. People are exaggerating Morgan's potential lack of preparedness for that moment.

 

[Finwad32]

The guy was QB2 for at least a week going into the game. My understanding is that QB2 is expected to be ready to go in when called upon. He is also a second-year guy who has started games against P5 opponents. People are exaggerating Morgan's potential lack of preparedness for that moment.

Again, sure, your understanding is correct. QB2 is expected to be ready to go. I’m not exaggerating, I’m just not sure without being at practice my comfort level going into that situation with a guy who hasn’t taken a live snap this year.

Semantics in me calling him QB 3, which he had been within 7 days of the game. I still feel the same way overall about that decision.