The problem is not the talent

[MikeSU02]

I hope you are right.

I do, too. Believe me.

Listen, I have an overall larger issue with the commitment to football by the university, but unless we find a T Boone, we are what we are.

But make no mistake, we have been bad or mediocre for almost 15 years now. I am not ok with that and don't want to sound like I am.

I'm just done trying to scratch out six wins each year. If we have a young core to build on and you show me a solid two year goal of getting to the top 25 by AJ's and Ish's junior season, that is what I want.

My goals for football are:

Top 25 each year.
Division winner 3x a decade.
Conference champ winner 1-2x a decade.
At least 1x a decade with an outside shot at the national title playoffs.

I know we aren't Alabama. But we should be able to compete.

 

[Crusty]

Back to axing Adams for no reason, I see.

So dumb. When at full strength we were one of the best teams in the ACC at protecting the QB.

It's not "I get we had injuries" ... That is simply the whole story from yesterday. With our oline at full strength, we win going away. End of story.

Generally agree, but the depth is his responsibility as well. I am sure their are better OL coaches out there. That is part of the problem - our expectations of everyone in the program are far too low.

 

[Chris02M]

I have winced when Scott has suggested at times that the Program is unable to attract great talent or that our target kid must be an under the radar kid.

Recruiting remains a challenge for the Program for various reasons, but it is not an impossible task at this stage to attract big time talent and there is no need to present the Program as anything less than a top tier program.

With ACC money and improved but not yet perfected infrastructure, we should aim for the stars and should present ourselves in that fashion.

recruiting in Ny state is hard because there isn't the solid home base of recruits to work from like there are in many other states

 

[Crusty]

I do, too. Believe me.

Listen, I have an overall larger issue with the commitment to football by the university, but unless we find a T Boone, we are what we are.

But make no mistake, we have been bad or mediocre for almost 15 years now. I am not ok with that and don't want to sound like I am.

I'm just done trying to scratch out six wins each year. If we have a young core to build on and you show me a solid two year goal of getting to the top 25 by AJ's and Ish's junior season, that is what I want.

My goals for football are:

Top 25 each year.
Division winner 3x a decade.
Conference champ winner 1-2x a decade.
At least 1x a decade with an outside shot at the national title playoffs.

I know we aren't Alabama. But we should be able to compete.

Mine are:
Winning seasons
Bowl 4 of 5 years
Don't get blown out of any games
Score 30+ points per game

 

[TheCusian]

The problem is schedule + injury + offensive coaching. I think Lester can be the guy and I think Long could become a game changer at QB.

If the schedule were easier, and our bye week made sense - we'd more than likely be in line for a bowl (replace MD with Central Bum State, have less injuries and we handle NC State easily). Bowl practice, wins, etc all help recruiting.

---

Honestly, I think a lot of people are tired of losing and don't have the patience to see progress or trust a staff enough to build something. I can't blame anyone for that, IMO. it's been too long and it's frustrating as hell. But I don't think we are as far off as it feels the day after a frustrating loss to a pretty mediocre team.

 

[djorange1989]

I really like HCSS but he still thinks like a MAC coach and that is going to result in us bringing in MAC level talent. Steve Addazio doesn't think that way. They lost 2/3 of their starters to graduation and here they are, bowl eligible and on their way to maybe an 8 win season which includes beating USC. You know, a big boy school that we can't beat.

 

[Statesman1]

recruiting in Ny state is hard because there isn't the solid home base of recruits to work from like there are in many other states

Generally I agree with this statement, but we fail to keep what we do have on a pretty regular basis.

 

[Chris02M]

Generally I agree with this statement, but we fail to keep what we do have on a pretty regular basis.

the few good enough ones your right

 

[Statesman1]

Generally agree, but the depth is his responsibility as well. I am sure their are better OL coaches out there. That is part of the problem - our expectations of everyone in the program are far too low.

Holy smokes it's his first year hear and you're hanging the depth of the line on him.

 

[OrangePA]

Agreed. But anyone impressed with the current talent isn't watching that closely or watching other teams as well.

Clearly we are not there yet - not even close.

But the fact that some of the true frosh are arguably our best players tells me that are talent level is improving.

 

[AZOrange]

Clearly we are not there yet - not even close.

But the fact that some of the true frosh are arguably our best players tells me that are talent level is improving.

Agreed

 

[anomander]

I like SS but hated, and I mean hated, that interview. We look for guys that no one else wants? Yeah, because we are so much better at both discovering talent and developing talent. Complete B.S.. It says to me that we are afraid to go after big time talent. Maybe they know they can't get them. But if that is true, why have a team?

You weren't the only one he bugged with that interview. In today's day and age there is no thing as under the radar talent, and there sure the hell isn't a recruiting class full of the kids.

 

[reedny]

I like SS but coaching has to be added to the list of deficiencies. If DUKE "FOOTBALL" can go 7-1 and put up 50 points on Pitt ... then obviously something is seriously amiss inside the SU staff. Yes Duke has a few cupcake wins. And we have a cavernous talent deficit, epidemic injuries, a masochistic schedule, etc. But DUKE? Think about it; they're 7-1 and we're 3-6, likely to go 3-9 and looking like a walking CF. How can this happen?

 

[reedny]

This is going to be unpopular, because Long made two critical mistakes that essentially led to 14 NCS points that were the difference in the game, but I liked what I saw otherwise in the second half. Playing behind a patchwork offensive line that was a sieve--probably directly led to some of the mistakes.

Season is basically over at this point, but I'm curious to see more of what Long can do. I think he showed enough yesterday in the 2nd half to demonstrate that he MIGHT be the guy, with a little more seasoning and strength and some improved experiential judgement.

And 4 more inches. j/k I thought he looked good apart from the two game-changing mistakes. Kid was running for his life most of the time. After 8 sacks, we're lucky he's walking.

 

[Alsacs]

Its as if you don't watch other football games to compare talent. Teams even in the bottom half of the Top25 have bigger faster, stronger players. Heck we lost to MD and NCState who are no where close to the Top25 and you say our talent level is sufficient. We need to recruit and beat top teams for talent. Period.

My god where the did I say we have top 25 talent. I said we could use more talent of course. Our talent is not top 25 but it is not Wake forest. Boston College, Pittsburgh have close to the same level of talent and they have put up way better offensive numbers.
Stop trying to make it sound I am saying we have top 25 talent we have 7-5 talent and this coaching staff is doing a terrible job this year.
West,Ishmael,Lewis, Tyson-Gulley, Adonis-Moore, Philips are decent players I get Long is a tFr but with Hunt we weren't doing anything.
I realize we could use more talent i don't expect 9-3 but this team is 3-6 and 1-4 at home looks horrible. Stop Trying to move the goalposts on what I am saying. We need better talent of course but this staff is not going to turn it around. The HC had a horrible interview and all I want is for him to replace the bad offensive coaches.

 

[CuseOnly]

I have winced when Scott has suggested at times that the Program is unable to attract great talent or that our target kid must be an under the radar kid.

Recruiting remains a challenge for the Program for various reasons, but it is not an impossible task at this stage to attract big time talent and there is no need to present the Program as anything less than a top tier program.

With ACC money and improved but not yet perfected infrastructure, we should aim for the stars and should present ourselves in that fashion.

The ACC money won't change a thing, not sure why everyone thinks it will. This administration only builds things to enhance the sports program with donations. Have they ever built anything for the athletic programs without any donations whatsoever?

With the extra $10 mil a year, it's not like we are going to see a $100 million dollar facility built every 10 years or coaching staff salaries change enough for us to attract top tier coaches. It will be status quo for as long as the AD can break even and be profitable. There needs to be wholesale change in the way the SU administration views and treats athletics and that will not happen.

That is the difference between State schools and private schools. State schools go to the State and say, "we need a $400 million dollar athletic facility to stay state of the art and be competitive" and low and behold it gets built with tax dollars.

 

[CuseOnly]

You don't think Coach Mac was a lucky hire?What in his resume prior to coming here screamed sure fire success?Our governor deciding to build a private university a brand new stadium with tax payer $ wasn't pretty damned lucky?The school was doing NOTHING for their own football program at the time and has done very little since until very recently.

There is no luck my friend. Everything IMO in life is a result of every previous decision made by the prior and current people involved. Coach Mac being eventually a winner was an AD and administration making a decision and having the foresight to wait it out until he had enough time to cultivate his plan.

The Dome was a result of a lot of people's hard work pitching the Governor who needed Upstate votes and told him that the Dome was the way to get those votes. He was buying those votes with state money to stay in office.

The timing was right and the ground work laid, luck was not involved. State's don't spin a wheel and give out $20 mil to whatever county the needle points to.

I agree with the fact that the school hasn't really done anything since until the last 4-5 years or so.

 

[OburgOrange]

That is the difference between State schools and private schools. State schools go to the State and say, "we need a $400 million dollar athletic facility to stay state of the art and be competitive" and low and behold it gets built with tax dollars.

And NY state was going to do that for us as well. Until the Mayor got her nose out of joint. Oh Lord

 

[CuseOnly]

And NY state was going to do that for us as well. Until the Mayor got her nose out of joint. Oh Lord

Don't get me started with that clown.

 

[Statesman1]

My god where the did I say we have top 25 talent. I said we could use more talent of course. Our talent is not top 25 but it is not Wake forest. Boston College, Pittsburgh have close to the same level of talent and they have put up way better offensive numbers.
Stop trying to make it sound I am saying we have top 25 talent we have 7-5 talent and this coaching staff is doing a terrible job this year.
West,Ishmael,Lewis, Tyson-Gulley, Adonis-Moore, Philips are decent players I get Long is a tFr but with Hunt we weren't doing anything.
I realize we could use more talent i don't expect 9-3 but this team is 3-6 and 1-4 at home looks horrible. Stop Trying to move the goalposts on what I am saying. We need better talent of course but this staff is not going to turn it around. The HC had a horrible interview and all I want is for him to replace the bad offensive coaches.

Wow are you sensitive! How did Sudano move the goal posts on you? All he said is that the bottom of the top 25 has superior talent to us- which is a fact. You make McDonald sound poised and self confident by comparison. Lighten up!

 

[CuseOnly]

Wow are you sensitive! How did Sudano move the goal posts on you? All he said is that the bottom of the top 25 has superior talent to us- which is a fact. You make McDonald sound poised and self confident by comparison. Lighten up!

Did you not read the WARNING: on the bottom of Alsacs posts? You should.

Alsacs- Don't take that the wrong way but it seems he is relatively new to the board and doesn't know your "style".

 

[Bayside44]

How was building the Dome luck? How was getting Coach Mac luck? How was getting


Right, the school was just minding their own business when the state dropped the dome in their lap. That's not how politics works or $ gets spent. You're right, Mack turned out great, but somebody had to make the decision to hire him. By your logic, GRob was just an unlucky hire. Tim Green didn't just wake up and commit, just as all the talent that followed didn't either. You'll get no argument from me on the general lack of commitment to the program on SU in general, but none of these events occurred solely because of luck.

Hugh Carey was making a play for to a then more powerful delegation to the region. #CarrierDome

They almost got lucky again with Cuomo buying off Republicans this past go around.

 

[NineOneSeven]

We have some talent, problem is that when injuries (or suspensions) occur, your team is exposed. We might have decent players in our first string, but what about second string? Depth of talent is the issue, quite blatantly.

GA has not been playing with their heisman candidate RB. What do they do? Plug in the back up and don't skip a beat.

Not comparing us to GA obviously, just the principle.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

How was building the Dome luck? How was getting Coach Mac luck? How was getting


Right, the school was just minding their own business when the state dropped the dome in their lap. That's not how politics works or $ gets spent. You're right, Mack turned out great, but somebody had to make the decision to hire him. By your logic, GRob was just an unlucky hire. Tim Green didn't just wake up and commit, just as all the talent that followed didn't either. You'll get no argument from me on the general lack of commitment to the program on SU in general, but none of these events occurred solely because of luck.

None of it was due to any effort on the schools part.It DID just happen for them.I guess not turning down the offer of a free stadium was a huge and very tough decision for them.Luckily they went the right way on that one.What did THEY do to build on that bit of LUCK?

 

[Chris02M]

We have some talent, problem is that when injuries (or suspensions) occur, your team is exposed. We might have decent players in our first string, but what about second string? Depth of talent is the issue, quite blatantly.

GA has not been playing with their heisman candidate RB. What do they do? Plug in the back up and don't skip a beat.

Not comparing us to GA obviously, just the principle.

they missed a big beat yesterday