The rise and fall of Syracuse's Northeast recruiting base

[GeauxSU]

recruiting in Massachusetts has actually gotten much more streamlined since all of the good players are being recruited right into the ISL now vs playing in the public school leagues. The prep schools have begun to emphasize powerhouse teams vs 20 years ago.

Michigan has exploited this in a major way with Don Brown having those relationships at the prep schools in/around Boston. Only reason Dillon ended up at BC was because he blew his knee out when he was at Lawrence Academy. Otherwise he was heading to Michigan.

This is a small snapshot but we had those calls back in the day. I know the coach of Avon Old Farms and he was very familiar with the Syracuse coaches back when P&D were doing their thing. Relationships matter w this stuff.

Yeah, the parochial schools around us have been getting better and better, and Everett has been a factory always, but most of the top kids in Mass have been going to two schools recently:

Michigan
Boston College

A few other high level programs sprinkled in here or there, couple of Notre Dame kids, there was a four star kid who had originally committed to Michigan who is now going out to Arizona.

But I agree, ISL and parochial schools have dominated MA HS recruiting.

 

[JeffCuse]

This was a good article. Appreciate the author's take

 

[Bayside44]

WT Woodson. Being a Fairfax County school, it was always flush with funds - we had a planetarium, ffs. But most of the athletic facilities back then got the bare minimum funding. All of the nice stuff came from fundraising. The changeover began while I was there as far as physical facilities, although I suspect the football field was partly funded by the Washington Diplomats in the early 70s when they played their home games in the stadium.

That place seems to be a power, the few times I was there they had lots and lots of banners.

 

[dollarbill44]

That place seems to be a power, the few times I was there they had lots and lots of banners.

The sports history is pretty good overall. Lots of swimming and lax. We used to have banners for districts, regional and states, though, which can add up quickly across many sports.

 

[kcsu]

Staff is doing a decent job now.
Win games. Hit the portal

 

[OrlandoCuse]

20 years ago? Good gawd that is a long time ago. Most of the Section III schools have good to very good facilities. I know Liverpool has very nice facilities from being in there.

Liverpool has ribbon cutting for their new gym and athletic facilities Also includes an indoor track circling above the court. New weight room, batting cages, swimming pool improvements.

Liverpool has ribbon cutting for their new gym and athletic facilities Also includes an indoor track circling above the court. New weight room, batting cages, swimming pool improvements.

www.syracuse.com

So CNY was producing higher quality talent 20-30 years ago, the schools invested in facilities and now the area is producing less talent?

Something isn’t working

 

[orangenauburn]

So CNY was producing higher quality talent 20-30 years ago, the schools invested in facilities and now the area is producing less talent?

Something isn’t working

Population loss is a key.

You see it in LAX too. section 3 talent level (high end) just isn't there like it was between late 70s into late 90s early aughts.

Same with hoops, though that's not as big a drop off.


If they would allow football a three week spring period with one scrimmage and an extra week in summer, plus add two games to the season, you'd probably see more experienced players developing up here.

The other issue is the lack of depth on the sidelines and continuity in the schools athletic programs. Districts are too small to support programs and coaching turnover leaves youth programs having different coaches with different philosophy.

If some of the smaller and mid sized school districts merged athletics, you'd see much stronger competitive play and better quality on the field.

Your not seeing Marquise Walker v Will Allen on a Friday night in Section 3 anymore.

 

[orangenauburn]

It'd be a great project for someone to do a year by year analysis of D1 signers and where they went from Section 3. Start at 1980 and go through 2020.

 

[tipphill]

great and detailed post, if you recruit NY hard you can find some solid kids, but not many, and we just are not going to get the once in a while 4 star/5 star kid that Ohio State/Penn State/Notre Dame are going to come after. We need to continue to focus hard on Florida, as well as Jersey, PA, MD, VA, OH, MI.

agree but the 5 boro,s and western ny play good football

 

[tipphill]

Jay Bromley is a great example of this. A NYC kid that I don’t believe had any other D1 offers other than Syracuse. He was a great player and got much better with coaching throughout his college career. I believe HCDB also excels at developing players (Mang), but also needs to do better recruiting in general. If Schiano can get four star players there is no excuse why Babers can get some as well.

yes there is. schiano has a jersey presence and some jersey assistants,. he has florida ties and recruits nyc (as marrone did) schiano is a very good recruiter but bad game day coach, he has routinely out recruited us.
babers loosing to him was terrible. halfey is getting it done at bc, and narduzzi gets it done at pitt. what does that say about us?????
babers stubborness has been his biggest enemy. maybe he can turn things around starting saturday.

 

[orangencpolice]

yes there is. schiano has a jersey presence and some jersey assistants,. he has florida ties and recruits nyc (as marrone did) schiano is a very good recruiter but bad game day coach, he has routinely out recruited us.
babers loosing to him was terrible. halfey is getting it done at bc, and narduzzi gets it done at pitt. what does that say about us?????
babers stubborness has been his biggest enemy. maybe he can turn things around starting saturday.

So what exactly is your excuse for Babers not being able to recruit four star players? From what I have heard he is a very personable coach and relates to players. This is the question I was asking. I don’t quite understand why he has struggled. There is no excuse for him not to recruit well (especially standout local players) like the other ACC coaches. Perhaps winning consistently is the obstacle that he can’t seem to overcome.

 

[TexanMark]

Dominating recruiting of NY football is not going to keep us relevant in the current college football landscape.

Agreed, but we need to get 3-5 of NY's Top 10 every year.

The only way we'll ever have success is to run a system that plays to the NE strengths or get in early on a new innovation. I like what we are doing on defense currently. We have the makings of something special on defense. Our offense, is perfect for the Dome and the South but we haven't found consistency and depth in the QB position under Babers.

If only Marrone stayed...

 

[TexanMark]

There definitely was a general decline in talent levels in CNY & Western NY, and then you couple that with the erosion of our program and facilities in P's latter years, not a good recipe for success. GRob had some luck with Lobdell, Sales and Collier, somehow, but unfortunately 2 of those 3 really didn't have much impact on the program.

Sadly, upstate NY is a FB wasteland now. It wasn't ever like WPA or NJ but it was solid 30-50 years ago... All we can do is hope that super athletic kids are found that can develop a year or two at SU and catch up. Kinda like what we do with Canadian players. Lacrosse is a different story with upstate NY.

 

[TexanMark]

So what exactly is your excuse for Babers not being able to recruit four star players? From what I have heard he is a very personable coach and relates to players. This is the question I was asking. I don’t quite understand why he has struggled. There is no excuse for him not to recruit well (especially standout local players) like the other ACC coaches. Perhaps winning consistently is the obstacle that he can’t seem to overcome.

Well we do get 4 star players occasionally but the rankings are manipulated

 

[721Comstock]

Well we do get 4 star players occasionally but the rankings are manipulated

THIS.

Perfect example - Duce Chestnut.
Was a solid 4* croot. When he was a Rutty lean.
Then it looked like BC was leading, so his rankings slipped a little bit.
Then he verballed to Cuse, and his rankings dropped precipitously.

Dude looks and plays like a 4* guy, doesn’t he?

But also - Syracuse has rarely gotten 4* guys, period, for the past 2 decades.
It’s not a Dino thing. It’s a Syracuse thing.

 

[PhatOrange]

THIS.

Perfect example - Duce Chestnut.
Was a solid 4* croot. When he was a Rutty lean.
Then it looked like BC was leading, so his rankings slipped a little bit.
Then he verballed to Cuse, and his rankings dropped precipitously.

Dude looks and plays like a 4* guy, doesn’t he?

But also - Syracuse has rarely gotten 4* guys, period, for the past 2 decades.
It’s not a Dino thing. It’s a Syracuse thing.

In the last two classes, Chestnut, QPrice and Kinsler were all originally 4-star recruits at rvls until committing to Syracuse. There's probably a couple of others.

 

[Bayside44]

agree but the 5 boro,s and western ny play good football

The boroughs play terrible football.

And for the zillionth time on BC and Pitt, we aren't Jesuit or in WPA.

 

[721Comstock]

The boroughs play terrible football.

And for the zillionth time on BC and Pitt, we aren't Jesuit or in WPA.

BC gets ALL of the Catholic HS kids who can’t get into ND.

Pitt goes to a bowl game nearly every year. BC does too.
We go once in a blue moon.

Both those programs have put a lot more guys into the NFL recently than we have.

And people wonder why we struggle with recruiting?

 

[Bayside44]

BC gets ALL of the Catholic HS kids who can’t get into ND.

Pitt goes to a bowl game nearly every year. BC does too.
We go once in a blue moon.

Both those programs have put a lot more guys into the NFL recently than we have.

And people wonder why we struggle with recruiting?

They have things that are reliably consistent regardless of who coaches them.

 

[Millhouse]

Sadly, upstate NY is a FB wasteland now. It wasn't ever like WPA or NJ but it was solid 30-50 years ago... All we can do is hope that super athletic kids are found that can develop a year or two at SU and catch up. Kinda like what we do with Canadian players. Lacrosse is a different story with upstate NY.

I'm skeptical of lax pulling away the athletic kids in NY. I guess I'm putting down lax some here but I don't think that's the issue

 

[Bayside44]

I'm skeptical of lax pulling away the athletic kids in NY. I guess I'm putting down lax some here but I don't think that's the issue

Lots of NY kids that aren't the next Schwedes (sp) or Woodcock or Gedney on this list.

2024 Men's Lacrosse Roster - Syracuse University Athletics

The official 2024 Men's Lacrosse Roster for the Syracuse University Orange

cuse.com

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The boroughs play terrible football.

And for the zillionth time on BC and Pitt, we aren't Jesuit or in WPA.

Agreed, The NYC kids that have or haven't come here seem to be the rawest of all the recruits. Lot of misses of highly rated kids from that area that never pan out. Exceptions to the rule but there have been many here and at other schools that simply don't live up to the hype and the list is pretty long at this point. It's really starting to stack up when I think about it

 

[Bayside44]

Agreed, The NYC kids that have or haven't come here seem to be the rawest of all the recruits. Lot of misses of highly rated kids from that area that never pan out. Exceptions to the rule but there have been many here and at other schools that simply don't live up to the hype and the list is pretty long at this point. It's really starting to stack up when I think about it

And also what has happened is if a good NYC kid pops up they get recruited out of their school oftentimes by a high school football factory.

 

[RandomGuy]

Yeah, the parochial schools around us have been getting better and better, and Everett has been a factory always, but most of the top kids in Mass have been going to two schools recently:

Michigan
Boston College

A few other high level programs sprinkled in here or there, couple of Notre Dame kids, there was a four star kid who had originally committed to Michigan who is now going out to Arizona.

But I agree, ISL and parochial schools have dominated MA HS recruiting.

Another Mass kid to Georgia(Lewis Cine), and a RI kid(Xavier Truss), as well. NH kid to UCLA( Chip Kelly connection, though) Connecticut (Will Levis) to Penn State.

We should have been in the Conversation for all of them. Offerred, but we didn't even seem like a consideration. (Other than, Maybe Levis) We landed Iffy from Mass. Lemieux from Mass. Need to win far more of these.

We have 4 kids from Mass on the Roster. They may all be PWOs?Reirdon, McPhail, O'Conner Darton.

One guy in Mass has coached most of them on Elite Teams. (He ran Shy Cullen's pro day) While Bob Kraft has flown in on helicopter to meet him, and support his efforts? Last I knew, our staff has never spoken with him. Rutgers? Yeah. They visited him this summer.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

And also what has happened is if a good NYC kid pops up they get recruited out of their school oftentimes by a high school football factory.

Yep. Probably helps the kid from a developmental outlook and exposure but most times won't help our odds of actually landing them. Like I said, I believe what Dino is doing now is probably a solid plan, he has been here 5-6 years and probably knows what will work and won't as far as recruiting. He's not an idiot. I just think lack of success on the field is what hurts him more than anything now. And again, those waiting for top 25 classes are kidding themselves. I don't care who the coach is, ain't happening