The System Is Crashing

[MikeSU02]

Can we be competitive with NIL?

I think that is the fundamental question at this point.

If the answer is yes, then Red will have a fair shake at rebuilding.

If the answer is no, then it will likely be an exercise in futility as we languish with 2nd-tier talent and lose any tier-1 talent we develop to higher bidders.

If it's the latter, I can see sticking a fork in it like Jordoo.

I think there are three parts:

1) Being competitive with the NIL. We'll be fine here (imo). We were never UK, Duke or Kansas. But we will be competitive.

2) Can you (the general 'you', not you, Kingtidge) stomach the above the surface mechanisms that we'll continue to be exposed to (eg - the ridiculousness of saying the school and NILs can't be connected, the gross overpays for desperate teams, etc)? Do you want to have to deal with free agency each off season when you are dealing with your college team. That's rough as a fan.

3) Bad basketball.

Honestly, I've never had an issue with what it took to get really good players for Syracuse or any team. I don't have an issue with Cal, don't have an issue with Tark, don't have an issue with JB's two probations. I DO have an issue with K and how he has been deified as a saint, but that's not for this thread. But I'm not going to be able to watch free agency occur and then be subjected to bad basketball, which is what college bball has been... for a while.

I root for and cheer for Syracuse. I was a fan since I was little, I was a fan while I was there and I'll be a fan as I keep growing older. But college basketball, overall and imo, is bad. And it keeps getting worse.

I'm a huge NBA fan, so that's where I get my bball fix.The playoffs have been incredible.

 

[kingtidge]

I think there are three parts:

1) Being competitive with the NIL. We'll be fine here (imo). We were never UK, Duke or Kansas. But we will be competitive.

2) Can you (the general 'you', not you, Kingtidge) stomach the above the surface mechanisms that we'll continue to be exposed to (eg - the ridiculousness of saying the school and NILs can't be connected, the gross overpays for desperate teams, etc)? Do you want to have to deal with free agency each off season when you are dealing with your college team. That's rough as a fan.

3) Bad basketball.

Honestly, I've never had an issue with what it took to get really good players for Syracuse or any team. I don't have an issue with Cal, don't have an issue with Tark, don't have an issue with JB's two probations. I DO have an issue with K and how he has been deified as a saint, but that's not for this thread. But I'm not going to be able to watch free agency occur and then be subjected to bad basketball, which is what college bball has been... for a while.

I root for and cheer for Syracuse. I was a fan since I was little, I was a fan while I was there and I'll be a fan as I keep growing older. But college basketball, overall and imo, is bad. And it keeps getting worse.

I'm a huge NBA fan, so that's where I get my bball fix.The playoffs have been incredible.

Here's my hope:

On # 1 & 2: I hope NIL winds up being the impetus to roster continuity, where we can keep good (not great) players at least 3 years because they will make more money staying than going to G-league or to Europe. I think that the programs that can do this by and large going forward with NIL will see success. I also hope we get our fair share of one-and-dones. There will alwys be a player here or there that has a breakout year and wants to be PAID by the highest bidder. I just hope they may be the exception rather than the rule (that may be wishful thinking, I admit.)

If we can do the above, the basketball will be better.

On NBA... yikes. David Stern pretty much wrote the manifesto on monetizing the game to n-th degree while killing the game in the process. I mean, I do watch NBA late-round playoff games with passing interest, but the regular season stuff of shootaround until the last 7 minutes is the most boring style play there is in my book. I don't even consider it legitimate basketball. It's unwatchable in my book.

 

[Newhouser]

I think there are three parts:

1) Being competitive with the NIL. We'll be fine here (imo). We were never UK, Duke or Kansas. But we will be competitive.

2) Can you (the general 'you', not you, Kingtidge) stomach the above the surface mechanisms that we'll continue to be exposed to (eg - the ridiculousness of saying the school and NILs can't be connected, the gross overpays for desperate teams, etc)? Do you want to have to deal with free agency each off season when you are dealing with your college team. That's rough as a fan.

3) Bad basketball.

Honestly, I've never had an issue with what it took to get really good players for Syracuse or any team. I don't have an issue with Cal, don't have an issue with Tark, don't have an issue with JB's two probations. I DO have an issue with K and how he has been deified as a saint, but that's not for this thread. But I'm not going to be able to watch free agency occur and then be subjected to bad basketball, which is what college bball has been... for a while.

I root for and cheer for Syracuse. I was a fan since I was little, I was a fan while I was there and I'll be a fan as I keep growing older. But college basketball, overall and imo, is bad. And it keeps getting worse.

I'm a huge NBA fan, so that's where I get my bball fix.The playoffs have been incredible.

NIL is not going to make the players better - that is a cultural change needed at the youth level. The current product is bad because the players aren't skilled and have a lack of awareness on how to play, yet get rewarded for being the player they are. Where are they learning how to play? What is the incentive to improve?

I like the player getting money - long overdue and for a lot probably their best opportunity to cash in. My fear is that the payout system trickles down and the development continues to crater.

 

[OrangeAl]

I, too, feel my romance with college athletics is dying. It's hard to identify with players who don't love SU as much as I do. They're just becoming minor league professionals.
However, I'm going to give it another year and see where it goes before I walk away from it. I really hope this love of my life returns with its former passion.

 

[OrangeDW]

I, too, feel my romance with college athletics is dying. It's hard to identify with players who don't love SU as much as I do. They're just becoming minor league professionals.
However, I'm going to give it another year and see where it goes before I walk away from it. I really hope this love of my life returns with its former passion.

For me, I think one of the positives of hiring Autry instead of an outsider is that I care way more if Autry succeeds than I would about some outsider that I have no connection to.

Even if I’m down on college sports as a whole, I’m rooting hard for Autry….because it’s Autry. Growing up, I watched him play for 4 years and like him. I’d feel bad for him if it doesn’t work out and will be pumped for him if it does.

I couldn’t care less about some mid major MAC Coach….I’d more or less be jumping on the bandwagon if he did well.

 

[Scotch]

I think there are three parts:

1) Being competitive with the NIL. We'll be fine here (imo). We were never UK, Duke or Kansas. But we will be competitive.

2) Can you (the general 'you', not you, Kingtidge) stomach the above the surface mechanisms that we'll continue to be exposed to (eg - the ridiculousness of saying the school and NILs can't be connected, the gross overpays for desperate teams, etc)? Do you want to have to deal with free agency each off season when you are dealing with your college team. That's rough as a fan.

3) Bad basketball.

Honestly, I've never had an issue with what it took to get really good players for Syracuse or any team. I don't have an issue with Cal, don't have an issue with Tark, don't have an issue with JB's two probations. I DO have an issue with K and how he has been deified as a saint, but that's not for this thread. But I'm not going to be able to watch free agency occur and then be subjected to bad basketball, which is what college bball has been... for a while.

I root for and cheer for Syracuse. I was a fan since I was little, I was a fan while I was there and I'll be a fan as I keep growing older. But college basketball, overall and imo, is bad. And it keeps getting worse.

I'm a huge NBA fan, so that's where I get my bball fix.The playoffs have been incredible.

#3 is the elephant in the room. The product has been on a steady decline. Syracuse struggling hasn’t helped matters but I don’t watch the other big time games anymore. Maybe NIL actually keeps more talent in the system but the lack of continuity doesn’t fill me with confidence. The reality is that it’s been a niche sport for awhile that mainstream sports fans pay attention to for two weeks, and the quality is going in the wrong direction.

 

[rocklloyd]

The OP and cuseregular summed up where I’m at. I no longer have basketball seasons tickets. I’ll maybe watch a game on tv, but my life does not revolve round it As it used to.

I was on fence about renewing football, but it something my wife and I can do together.

I need to see major changes in both programs for me to continue to invest my time. Hoping red can pull me back in and Dino can build on last year to finally take step forward.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The greed and avarice of those in charge soured me on NCAA football long ago. Expansion has ruined so much of what I used to enjoy. It's not that I don't like my interaction with Syracuse's fans (for the most part, I find you an exceptional fan base), but I miss the small conference that the ACC once was. I'm sure some of you miss the original Big East, too. I miss home & home scheduling in basketball. I miss the notion that if I want to go to an away game, with few exceptions, they were a comfortable drive away. I miss playing everyone in the conference in football. Fellow conference members ought not to be a half a continent away. My attitude towards immediate eligibility for transfers is in a state of flux, but I find the whole NIL situation deplorable. I agree that schools shouldn't profit from a player's name, image, or likeness, but that doesn't mean players should be given free range to exploit them. At some point in the future, I imagine that those schools most interested in the money will break off from the NCAA. I almost look forward to it. Maybe then the notion of amateurism in intercollegiate athletics will be reclaimed by those that remain.. At least on some level. My greatest fear is that UVa will be one of those leaving. For the time being, though, this is a very nice forum to visit.

I liked you post, with one exception. The ability of players to “exploit” their NIL was always theirs, but it was taken away by the NCAA.

 

[qdawgg]

The OP and cuseregular summed up where I’m at. I no longer have basketball seasons tickets. I’ll maybe watch a game on tv, but my life does not revolve round it As it used to.

I was on fence about renewing football, but it something my wife and I can do together.

I need to see major changes in both programs for me to continue to invest my time. Hoping red can pull me back in and Dino can build on last year to finally take step forward.

“My life doesn’t revolve round it as it used to”. Exactly my thoughts. I could never miss a game, now sometimes I miss a game and don’t even realize there was a game. That’s mostly BB since there’s more games all week. But I don’t base my whole schedule around when games are on. In some ways that’s good, now that I have a kid, so it’s weirdly worked out. But it’s also kind of sad.

 

[elimunelson]

My life doesn't revolve around Syracuse sports because my kids are either attending other schools now or in the process of doing so. I'm living through them now and their teams will be as important to me as my alma mader. I remember my parents becoming SU fans because I went there.

As to the rest of it, it's hold your nose season with all college sports. However, on game day it's still the best product. Walking around a campus pre game is a candle smell i'd want perpetually in my life. That will never be lost no matter how oppressive the optics become.

So to that, Go HC Crusaders!

 

[ORANGE OATH]

I don’t profess to be an expert on NIL, but what I do know is I have grave misgivings about the direction of college basketball and NIL.
I know change is evolutionary and unstoppable but that said I fear if college basketball continues on its current trajectory (if it hasn’t already passed that point) I will lose interest in it.
I have zero interest in spoiled mega millionaires playing sports. Please don’t misunderstand that is great for them and more power to them, but there is no allure for me without the love for Syracuse University by those wearing the uniform.
Yes, I know some can be paid huge amounts of money and still love the school they play for, but I feel that is more wishful thinking than the common reality.
I used to be a huge MLB/NFL Fan , that is no longer the case as I view it as my millionaires can beat your millionaires playing a kids game.
I have (and still do) love SU Sports, but should the college game transition to little more than minor league teams for the NBA then I guess I will continue to evaluate if it is worth the time and money invested.
I know I have an arcane view, but it is what it is.

Go Orange

 

[73CAV]

I liked you post, with one exception. The ability of players to “exploit” their NIL was always theirs, but it was taken away by the NCAA.

Strictly speaking, that isn't, or wasn't, the case. They always had the opportunity to exploit their NIL, but they had to make a choice. Sell their name, image, or likeness, or maintain their amateur status. No one was forcing them to play basketball in the NCAA. The new rules simply mean that they don't have to make that choice any longer, and I think it's threatening the integrity of the game.

 

[orangecuse]

Strictly speaking, that isn't, or wasn't, the case. They always had the opportunity to exploit their NIL, but they had to make a choice. Sell their name, image, or likeness, or maintain their amateur status. No one was forcing them to play basketball in the NCAA. The new rules simply mean that they don't have to make that choice any longer, and I think it's threatening the integrity of the game.

I've stated this view several times here. No one (that can't be emphasized enough) made/forced them to go the NCAA route that they VOLUNTARILY chose to go. Free will! Fact of the matter is, if anyone of these boo hoo, I'm being taken such advantage of, etc., etc. young non established adults had any better options at the time than what they were GIVEN, they would've chose that route to begin with. PERIOD!

IMO, the enormous platform, and all that that entails, afforded to them are opportunities of a lifetime that the vast majority otherwise would've never had.

 

[tbonezone]

glad to see SYRACUSE finally has a professional basketball franchise again.
however i myself won't watch college kids getting 6 figures to play ball.
guess the new rules have passed me by.the big money benefitting a very few.
ain't that america ?

 

[Col. Bleep]

The greed and avarice of those in charge soured me on NCAA football long ago. Expansion has ruined so much of what I used to enjoy. It's not that I don't like my interaction with Syracuse's fans (for the most part, I find you an exceptional fan base), but I miss the small conference that the ACC once was. I'm sure some of you miss the original Big East, too. I miss home & home scheduling in basketball. I miss the notion that if I want to go to an away game, with few exceptions, they were a comfortable drive away. I miss playing everyone in the conference in football. Fellow conference members ought not to be a half a continent away. My attitude towards immediate eligibility for transfers is in a state of flux, but I find the whole NIL situation deplorable. I agree that schools shouldn't profit from a player's name, image, or likeness, but that doesn't mean players should be given free range to exploit them. At some point in the future, I imagine that those schools most interested in the money will break off from the NCAA. I almost look forward to it. Maybe then the notion of amateurism in intercollegiate athletics will be reclaimed by those that remain.. At least on some level. My greatest fear is that UVa will be one of those leaving. For the time being, though, this is a very nice forum to visit.

Amen.

The old ACC was a nice group of regional rivals playing head to head and then the top tier going for the national title.
Same in the old Big East.
I miss it a lot.
My blood still boils every time I hear the name Georgetown.
And schools like Syracuse just aren't a good cultural fit in the ACC.

But times change and TV money talks.

The current "system" seems full of instability.
Things will evolve in unseen ways.
I, for one, hope the constant effort to come up with money to pay top players will pressure colleges to go back to more amteurism.
Let the best players may go directly pro.
College ball will survive.

 

[AlaskaSU]

The greed and avarice of those in charge soured me on NCAA football long ago. Expansion has ruined so much of what I used to enjoy. It's not that I don't like my interaction with Syracuse's fans (for the most part, I find you an exceptional fan base), but I miss the small conference that the ACC once was. I'm sure some of you miss the original Big East, too. I miss home & home scheduling in basketball. I miss the notion that if I want to go to an away game, with few exceptions, they were a comfortable drive away. I miss playing everyone in the conference in football. Fellow conference members ought not to be a half a continent away. My attitude towards immediate eligibility for transfers is in a state of flux, but I find the whole NIL situation deplorable. I agree that schools shouldn't profit from a player's name, image, or likeness, but that doesn't mean players should be given free range to exploit them. At some point in the future, I imagine that those schools most interested in the money will break off from the NCAA. I almost look forward to it. Maybe then the notion of amateurism in intercollegiate athletics will be reclaimed by those that remain.. At least on some level. My greatest fear is that UVa will be one of those leaving. For the time being, though, this is a very nice forum to visit.

College basketball and football were killed by their own success. TV money brought on NIL NIL killed amateur college sports.
Schools have the choice of competing via NIL or being content with losing while collecting fat conference paychecks.
From the fan point of view acceptance of losing sucks. From the schools point of view having money for the non-revenue sports is a plus.
I don't know what will happen. The current situation is unstable.

 

[OrangeAl]

My question is: Does Syracuse U. need to be successful at high-level athletics in order to keep the alumni donations flowing? I have to admit that, without a rooting interest, my non-sports financial commitment to SU wouldn't be the same.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Clemson's football success greatly increased enrollment applications, which raised the schools academic ranking and donor revenue.

 

[NorSyr66]

Good thoughts and concerns throughout this thread. Thanks to Jordoo for starting. I am pretty much inline with many of the posts. I just can not get my head around this whole NIL thing. What will happen to the student athlete? Some of these NIL deals are coming up with more money than playing professionally. Hard to see how a team will be constructed with few players making big dollars, others some dollars and several no money at all. Have we lost reason for going to college? It is going to be like the wild west as wealthy donors, plus the portal system, move players from team to team. We have sure gone a long way from getting a few NIL bucks for your image on a cereal box! Yes the system is crashing but hopefully what we are accustomed to as college basketball will return void the few money greedy "play for pay" colleges.

 

[JonB]

I did something I never do. I started watching the NBA. I figured if I’m gonna watch a product where guys are getting paid, I’d rather watch the NBA than college. I can’t stand the roster turnover in college anymore. I find NBA teams have less roster turnover. I’ll still watch Syracuse, but there is a lot that needs to be ironed out with college NIL to make it sustainable.

 

[elimunelson]

My question is: Does Syracuse U. need to be successful at high-level athletics in order to keep the alumni donations flowing? I have to admit that, without a rooting interest, my non-sports financial commitment to SU wouldn't be the same.

i'm sure to some extent.

MIT, University of Chicago, NYU are 3 completely different schools that bring in oodles of endowment money without a sniff of real bigtime athletics.

Syracuse would probably pivot into a more educational operation if they canned sports. It would be an infinitely less interesting place for me because i'm a mouth breathing/red blooded american who likes sports disproportionately to what is important but the school would be a more streamlined place of academia IMO

 

[two3zone]

I did something I never do. I started watching the NBA. I figured if I’m gonna watch a product where guys are getting paid, I’d rather watch the NBA than college. I can’t stand the roster turnover in college anymore. I find NBA teams have less roster turnover. I’ll still watch Syracuse, but there is a lot that needs to be ironed out with college NIL to make it sustainable.

Right there with you.

 

[tbonezone]

we're not getting it done in the ACC. fact. i miss the BE and would love to splinter off to a schedule with UCONN,VILLANOVA, GEORGETOWN ,RHODE ISLAND, PITT, ST JOHNS, XAVIER, etc. add a few northern schools you name it. if the new rules is kids can jump every year no penalty the same NEW rule should hold for Universities. fire up a new BE. get back to where we belong. and screw NOTRE DAME. unless they commit all in.

 

[Sbucketball]

I did something I never do. I started watching the NBA. I figured if I’m gonna watch a product where guys are getting paid, I’d rather watch the NBA than college. I can’t stand the roster turnover in college anymore. I find NBA teams have less roster turnover. I’ll still watch Syracuse, but there is a lot that needs to be ironed out with college NIL to make it sustainable.

I always loved college basketball more than the NBA in no small part because college didn't have the roster turnover. In the NBA, your favorite player on your favorite team might be knocking you out of the playoffs the next year. You can't get too attached to anyone. My guys on Cuse would almost always be Orange forever and I didn't have to worry about that. I think many college fans will turn to the NBA in the near future. If you have the same roster turnover and payment disputes, might as well watch a higher level of basketball.

 

[Cuse181]

Clemson's football success greatly increased enrollment applications, which raised the schools academic ranking and donor revenue.

Haven’t they been getting worse?

Why Clemson keeps falling in the U.S. News rankings

U.S. News & World Report issued its top college rankings last fall, in which Clemson University once again lost ground.

www.thetigercu.com