The System Is Crashing

[jordoo]

For years I've questioned why my interest has faded. I'm mostly a MBball fan but lurked on the FBall board enough to understand the power dynamics in the system that made it difficult for a program in SU's position to build into a consistent winner. The new transfer rules added a level of instability that makes building a program all the more difficult. The NIL set up a system that benefits the power players even more while continuing the destabilization of the whole system. I naively assumed that the SU bball brand/history would be able to slip through. Not that it would get back to BE prime powerhouse days but that it would be relevant each year and a ranked team most years.

That said I've been steadily losing interest for many years. Lately I've realized that the college athletics system is collapsing. I'm not sure how much longer it will last. I guess top level fball is still holding it together. I'm not a huge college fball fan though and couldn't tell you if the product has declined. I can however say that the college bball product is wretched compared to what it once was. Its a result of many things all of which convince me that the system is crashing. Even when I watch two top10 teams square off I don't find it entertaining. It doesn't hold my attention. Watching an SU game used to be an enjoyable ride win or lose. Then it became a fence sitting activity where I was hoping to avoid seeing a loss that would make me question the future of the program. Then it was a chore. Finally it got to a point where it didn't move me either way which in the end is like freedom. Perhaps I'm just a bad fan, but I have many fond memories that I wouldn't give up. I just have nothing for modern college athletics. Even if SU had flourished during this time I feel like it would have just put off the inevitability of the place I've ended up in. It doesn't mean as much to win a NC anymore and it means less with every passing year.

Anyways I think we are seeing a slow death of the system. Eventually when you lose enough eyes and interest the money will dwindle. I haven't done any research but I would guess this has already started. I would also say that a smaller percentage of young people are sports fans as they grow up which means a smaller demographic to pull from for long term fans. So as older fans lose interest, age out or pass on the whole pool shrinks. Much like legacy media has been fading away as the last few generations have grown up with the internet/options/instant gratification.

 

[pearl31]

great to see you old friend.
and agreed

 

[Orangezoo]

Blast from the past! Hope you are doing well good sir. It's rough times indeed without a light shining anywhere in the distance.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Jordooooo

 

[asj410]

jordoo!!! Long time, no see! Hope you're doing well, buddy!

 

[jordoo]

Thanks for the well wishes! I'm doing well finally decided to grow up in my forties, LOL. I have fond memories of this board and the posters. Just figured I'd stop in, say hey and let you know why I've been MIA and will likely continue to be.

 

[Orangezoo]

Thanks for the well wishes! I'm doing well finally decided to grow up in my forties, LOL. I have fond memories of this board and the posters. Just figured I'd stop in, say hey and let you know why I've been MIA and will likely continue to be.

Grow up? That's no fun! Glad you stopped by and said hello though. Wish you well!

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I mean I've had a couple posts deleted questioning the university so I don't want to say too much I think we just have to hope our new coach is really good and can do more with less. He's probably the one person who deserves a complete pass. I don't think things were far from playing out differently.

The guys who are locked in are good candidates to make huge jumps year 1 to year 2. We've had huge recruiting classes and done well in the portal before things can change quickly in our favor. I just don't see how the new NIL landscape is that different from the system up until a few years ago. We chose to be marks and voluntarily suspend our star center who was an ESL student when we were the #1 team in the country for getting help on a paper to bow down to the NCAA stupidly no other major program does that. Its like pleading guilty to jaywalking and offering to do 3 months in jail. Carolina showed some spine/backbone when they got busted for fake classes probably the worst thing a college program can do and skated.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I also think innovation has been different re: college hoops and football.

In college football, teams with lesser talent have learned how to be creative on both sides of the ball to tip the scales back in their favor.

In college hoops, making games ugly if you have less talent is as much of a winning strategy as you can find.

 

[Lawrinson14]

Don't know if it's crashing...or just evolving like media a whole. We are essentially seeing college sports evolving toward influencer culture much like the broadcast media titanic that got side swiped by the iceberg that is youtube, vlogs, and tiktok.

It's not about the name on the front of the jersey anymore. It's about NIL, how may subscribers/likes, and how players can turn that into their own profit.

Not saying it's bad or good. Just not for me. I find myself not watching and not caring.

 

[Newhouser]

I mean I've had a couple posts deleted questioning the university so I don't want to say too much I think we just have to hope our new coach is really good and can do more with less. He's probably the one person who deserves a complete pass. I don't think things were far from playing out differently.

The guys who are locked in are good candidates to make huge jumps year 1 to year 2. We've had huge recruiting classes and done well in the portal before things can change quickly in our favor. I just don't see how the new NIL landscape is that different from the system up until a few years ago. We chose to be marks and voluntarily suspend our star center who was an ESL student when we were the #1 team in the country for getting help on a paper to bow down to the NCAA stupidly no other major program does that. Its like pleading guilty to jaywalking and offering to do 3 months in jail. Carolina showed some spine/backbone when they got busted for fake classes probably the worst thing a college program can do and skated.

I agree with you. NIL is different but not that vast a change from the previous unchecked enhancements. Aggression off the court will win and that is the only real concern I have. The school seems to be more afraid of the NCAA than I think it should be but two strikes will do that.

In regard to the OP's comments about the quality of play - the problem with basketball in this country is that the youth programs (AAU) are more interested in making money and not developing players. I do not believe it is a fluke that the best players in the NBA (Giannis, Joker, Luka) are foreign where the focus is on how to play not how to score.

 

[pfister1]

Imagine if college athletics returned to being about the experience for the student athlete with no mind for the fan/viewer experience??

 

[Orangezoo]

Don't know if it's crashing...or just evolving like media a whole. We are essentially seeing college sports evolving toward influencer culture much like the broadcast media titanic that got side swiped by the iceberg that is youtube, vlogs, and tiktok.

It's not about the name on the front of the jersey anymore. It's about NIL, how may subscribers/likes, and how players can turn that into their own profit.

Not saying it's bad or good. Just not for me. I find myself not watching and not caring.

Good points. You could argue that's a follow in the NBAs footsteps. Far less loyalty for stars in the prime of their careers. Same with star coaches at the college level prior to the portal.

 

[CuseTroop]

Remember when we our only concerns were which threads we were going to hijack?

 

[Orangezoo]

Remember when we our only concerns were which threads we were going to hijack?

Those were the days...

 

[orangefog]

Remember when we our only concerns were which threads we were going to hijack?

I miss tangents.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

I'm excited to see what Autry can do. I'm more concerned that the last 7 years have generated so much apathy that a large chunk of the fanbase have moved on and can't be brought back. Winning changes everything, but it's going to be more difficult to win if the key stakeholders in and around the university refuse to adapt to the current environment and get their house in order. If they're just outgunned, so be it, but at least give it an honest shot, or get out of the way so someone else can.

I think basketball is as popular as ever, but the NCAA's refusal to keep with the times has come back to bite them in the worst way. I won't tell anyone how to be a fan, though, so if the free transfer and NIL developments don't reflect your values, I totally get it.

 

[CuseCPT]

Imagine if college athletics returned to being about the experience for the student athlete with no mind for the fan/viewer experience??

That probably hasn't been the case since 1960. It simply isn't possible to have one system that includes amateur Olympic sport athletes and people that are effectively doing unpaid professional sports and treats them all the same. At least not a fair one.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm excited to see what Autry can do. I'm more concerned that the last 7 years have generated so much apathy that a large chunk of the fanbase have moved on and can't be brought back. Winning changes everything, but it's going to be more difficult to win if the key stakeholders in and around the university refuse to adapt to the current environment and get their house in order. If they're just outgunned, so be it, but at least give it an honest shot, or get out of the way so someone else can.

I think basketball is as popular as ever, but the NCAA's refusal to keep with the times has come back to bite them in the worst way. I won't tell anyone how to be a fan, though, so if the free transfer and NIL developments don't reflect your values, I totally get it.

Who said we aren’t adapting to the new environment and giving it an honest shot?

 

[Cuseregular]

For years I've questioned why my interest has faded. I'm mostly a MBball fan but lurked on the FBall board enough to understand the power dynamics in the system that made it difficult for a program in SU's position to build into a consistent winner. The new transfer rules added a level of instability that makes building a program all the more difficult. The NIL set up a system that benefits the power players even more while continuing the destabilization of the whole system. I naively assumed that the SU bball brand/history would be able to slip through. Not that it would get back to BE prime powerhouse days but that it would be relevant each year and a ranked team most years.

That said I've been steadily losing interest for many years. Lately I've realized that the college athletics system is collapsing. I'm not sure how much longer it will last. I guess top level fball is still holding it together. I'm not a huge college fball fan though and couldn't tell you if the product has declined. I can however say that the college bball product is wretched compared to what it once was. Its a result of many things all of which convince me that the system is crashing. Even when I watch two top10 teams square off I don't find it entertaining. It doesn't hold my attention. Watching an SU game used to be an enjoyable ride win or lose. Then it became a fence sitting activity where I was hoping to avoid seeing a loss that would make me question the future of the program. Then it was a chore. Finally it got to a point where it didn't move me either way which in the end is like freedom. Perhaps I'm just a bad fan, but I have many fond memories that I wouldn't give up. I just have nothing for modern college athletics. Even if SU had flourished during this time I feel like it would have just put off the inevitability of the place I've ended up in. It doesn't mean as much to win a NC anymore and it means less with every passing year.

Anyways I think we are seeing a slow death of the system. Eventually when you lose enough eyes and interest the money will dwindle. I haven't done any research but I would guess this has already started. I would also say that a smaller percentage of young people are sports fans as they grow up which means a smaller demographic to pull from for long term fans. So as older fans lose interest, age out or pass on the whole pool shrinks. Much like legacy media has been fading away as the last few generations have grown up with the internet/options/instant gratification.

Thank you thank you for taking the time to write this, it mirrors (most of) my thoughts. Yeah it’s not just an aging out process rather it’s a who moved my cheese thing with so much change.

And for SU and us fans not so good change from market forces, court decisions, evolution with the portal, NIL etc. etc.

As we all here know Syracuse by location and being private presents some unique obstacles to overcome that are out of its control. It makes it harder to compete in general let alone with some questionable institutional decisions from the past and with the recent going’s on. The combination makes it harder to succeed in the two big revenue sports.

And now Let’s just go by what we now see happening with some of our best players moving on to greener pa$ture$. Does anyone think we’re gonna be able to now close this Pandora’s box? No it’s going to continue and accelerate making competing at the highest level even more difficult.

Combine this with the shoot in the foot self defeating move of pushing out a billionaire supporter because he doesn’t fit the look of the institutional preferred mode and way of doing things, rather doing it his unique way (if there’s more to the story than this that would explain this move for Gods sake someone please finally spill it, university or otherwise).

Anyway With all these challenges moves like this in combination with all these kids leaving means a lot of cheese have been moved, and to compete at the highest level it will require greater out of the box thinking.

And this is where I disagree on your one point, if we were indeed flourishing, if there was an administration doing the out of the box thinking necessary to help maximize the chances of thing’s flourishing I’d still be all in fanatically devoted and doing as either me or my family has done for the past 50 years spending untold thousands on tickets travel and amenities.

No, the combination of the market forces (NIL, portal, more top notch kids leaving) against syracuse compounded by, my opinion now, an administration signaling they’re not gonna do everything possible to do what it takes to be competitive at the highest level - while still asking for us to shell out a good amount of $ - well this combination has created the issues you write so eloquently about. I mean with what we all already shell out are we good with now having to contribute the this NIL world too to get and keep kids here? Really?

Nah no thanks, too much cheese has been moved now such that it's lost its integrity, or as you put it, the system/College athletics is collapsing, this to the highest bidders in this new world that's psuedo minor league/pro like.

So After 50 years I’m done as a seasons ticket holder in the two major sports, which has been one of the tougher decisions I’ve ever made coming to the conclusion that it’s no longer worth the financial commitment IMHO.

Will still be a fan and follow as after a lifetime of doing so won’t be able to just shut it off, rather it’ll be a slow sad process pulling back (heck look I’m still here!), but if and until I see changes will hit some other local college and hs games.

If and until I see them go all in with what it takes to compete at the current level they find themselves in and at as well as be able to keep our best players here, it’s just not worth it, the emotional, financial and time commitment investment of it all.

It’s gonna be interesting to see what happens and if I’m an outlier as well as how things pan out. Regardless thanks for the taking the time for your take on things.

 

[kingtidge]

I'm excited to see what Autry can do. I'm more concerned that the last 7 years have generated so much apathy that a large chunk of the fanbase have moved on and can't be brought back. Winning changes everything, but it's going to be more difficult to win if the key stakeholders in and around the university refuse to adapt to the current environment and get their house in order. If they're just outgunned, so be it, but at least give it an honest shot, or get out of the way so someone else can.

I think basketball is as popular as ever, but the NCAA's refusal to keep with the times has come back to bite them in the worst way. I won't tell anyone how to be a fan, though, so if the free transfer and NIL developments don't reflect your values, I totally get it.

Can we be competitive with NIL?

I think that is the fundamental question at this point.

If the answer is yes, then Red will have a fair shake at rebuilding.

If the answer is no, then it will likely be an exercise in futility as we languish with 2nd-tier talent and lose any tier-1 talent we develop to higher bidders.

If it's the latter, I can see sticking a fork in it like Jordoo.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Imagine if college athletics returned to being about the experience for the student athlete with no mind for the fan/viewer experience??

So, no television?

 

[73CAV]

The greed and avarice of those in charge soured me on NCAA football long ago. Expansion has ruined so much of what I used to enjoy. It's not that I don't like my interaction with Syracuse's fans (for the most part, I find you an exceptional fan base), but I miss the small conference that the ACC once was. I'm sure some of you miss the original Big East, too. I miss home & home scheduling in basketball. I miss the notion that if I want to go to an away game, with few exceptions, they were a comfortable drive away. I miss playing everyone in the conference in football. Fellow conference members ought not to be a half a continent away. My attitude towards immediate eligibility for transfers is in a state of flux, but I find the whole NIL situation deplorable. I agree that schools shouldn't profit from a player's name, image, or likeness, but that doesn't mean players should be given free range to exploit them. At some point in the future, I imagine that those schools most interested in the money will break off from the NCAA. I almost look forward to it. Maybe then the notion of amateurism in intercollegiate athletics will be reclaimed by those that remain.. At least on some level. My greatest fear is that UVa will be one of those leaving. For the time being, though, this is a very nice forum to visit.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Can we be competitive with NIL?

I think that is the fundamental question at this point.

If the answer is yes, then Red will have a fair shake at rebuilding.

If the answer is no, then it will likely be an exercise in futility as we languish with 2nd-tier talent and lose any tier-1 talent we develop to higher bidders.

If it's the latter, I can see sticking a fork in it like Jordoo.

I think we can, given the right leadership. We have wealthy alums and people who love the basketball program (even without AW) and alums in the sports marketing world who I imagine could be engaged to help organize the NIL program if the department reached out. I don't know if the current state of making NIL money contingent on community service work is the way to go, for example, though it is admirable.

 

[kingtidge]

I think we can, given the right leadership. We have wealthy alums and people who love the basketball program (even without AW) and alums in the sports marketing world who I imagine could be engaged to help organize the NIL program if the department reached out. I don't know if the current state of making NIL money contingent on community service work is the way to go, for example, though it is admirable.

We'll know shortly when the portal closes on 5/11.