The Talk

[two3zone]

what this team lacks the most is a leader when things go sideways, that's the biggest missing ingredient this year IMHO. Maybe we have that and don't have the pieces to execute well when the chips are down as well, but I have never seen more apathy from a team once they are in a hole against a decent squad.

Every year going as far back as I’ve started watching, the team always seemed to have a leader on the floor. Seems like the last one we may have had was Battle.

 

[two3zone]

I don't like that he couldn't guard you.

Not sure he could a rock.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

I really think we're going to have a decent size roster turnover and I'm all for it.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I really think we're going to have a decent size roster turnover and I'm all for it.

Regardless of talent, 80% of our roster is sophomores. At a minimum Red has to rebalance the roster to address the class distribution issue.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I really think we're going to have a decent size roster turnover and I'm all for it.

gut feeling or hearing rumbles from elsewhere?

 

[Millhouse]

Stationary jump shooters tend not to draw a very large volume of fouls [beyond where out of position defenders leave their feet to go flying at the shooter, and commit fouls beyond the arc].

Yeah, it's wild just how stationary he is though
I miss the pre stathead days where you could look up crazy stats for free. I bet it's incredibly rare to be that one dimensional

 

[Millhouse]

I don't like that he couldn't guard you.

I still have eligibility

 

[Fly Rodder]

Stationary jump shooters tend not to draw a very large volume of fouls [beyond where out of position defenders leave their feet to go flying at the shooter, and commit fouls beyond the arc].

True enough, but this isn't a really good list to be on considering the number of minutes played and games started. Some guys who turned out to be better (or really good) players, but a few who didn't. Almost all young players, but few who were as large a component of the offense as Bell and Taylor.

3PA greater than 50, FT Attempts less than 20.

 

[Millhouse]

True enough, but this isn't a really good list to be on considering the number of minutes played and games started. Some guys who turned out to be better (or really good) players, but a few who didn't. Almost all young players, but few who were as large a component of the offense as Bell and Taylor.

3PA greater than 50, FT Attempts less than 20.
View attachment 236912

Ovcina 's minutes and role is by far the weirdest thing Boeheim ever did.

23 for 110 from three his jr and sr year

 

[SBU72]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure it would happen anyways) but don't the rules for the the portal require 2nd time through, the player has to sit out a year like old transfer rules? That sort of reduces the odds of McCloud and Cuffe leaving doesn’t it? And McCloud is already 23.

Cuffe is fine off the bench. Bell, Taylor and Williams should be encouraged to go.

 

[Niastri]

My guess [without knowing about any future transfers in]:

JJ, Moore, Westry, Freeman, Brown.

With Westry having missed the whole season, for the second year in a row, having a portal wing come in to be the starter isn't as complicated as unseating an incumbent starter.

Brown, Freeman, portal, Moore, Starling?

In this scenario, Bell is almost certainly transferring out. Building a great roster is hard.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Players we need to replace next year ---

Mintz (NBA)
Cuffe
Bell
Taylor
McLeod
Benny
Patterson
Carey
Copeland
Hima

These players are either too one-dimensional to be a big-time P5 starter or too inconsistent. I understand that we will not turn the roster over that much but that is who needs to be replaced...

If they want to stay they need to be recruited over and be open to an off-the-bench role otherwise peace.

Foundation for next year

JJ - Westry - Brown - Freeman - Moore

Not sure why JJ gets more benefit of the doubt than Q . Overall Q has been the better player all year. The stats back that up.

 

[miamicuse]

Syracuse has had multiple nationally televised games after two ~.500 seasons, so I don't give any credence to your last point.

As for your first point on losing guys, you dont lose these quality guys in a vacuum, coaches know who is leaving, and they know who is out there to be a replacement. There is really no excuse to not replace them/replace with low-level talent. Its not like Syracuse was bringing back top-level back-ups who no one could hope to compete with. Also, it is not like Syracuse is a some no-name mid major brand hoping to get lucky with some underrated guys, that is not what this team ever should be.

Honestly, it just seems odd that syracuse is somehow sitting alone in this bubble of "well what were they supposed to do beacuse they had to deal with x, y, and z" meanwhile you have schools like Wake, Olemiss, Clemson and South Carolina bringing in impact transfers. Schools who have struggled in recent years/went through coaching turnover and yet still were able to turn over rosters and be successful out of the gate. Seemingly without the benefits that syracuse has compared to all of them.

This team is incomplete. Losing Jesse they had to scramble to find someone, anyone to fill that void. Hunter Dickerson was never considering us. They got Westry and JJ and that's pretty good on paper, then Judah decided to return, and with Copland plus Cuff, seemingly we have real depth and athleticism, but no shooter. Taylor and Benny seem to have regressed, and here we are.

Looks like all the guys we got from the portal were previous HS recruits. Makes sense since the coaches already know them. We don't seem to be getting any impact transfer that we haven't previously recruited. That may be NIL related, no idea.

There isn't a DC, Billy or Sherman knocking on our doors. That was yesterday. Today it's a totally different ball game, you put a team together and you have a one year window to make some noises and after that it's musical chair all over again. I think the player development aspect, especially with bigs is a real problem. We can't wait 2-3 years to develop a big. This is a totally different skill set then the traditional 4 year model. We will see what AA can do. As for our "brand", I have come to accept that we are what the results say we are in recent years.

 

[CardiacCuse]

This is an ACC school with a rich history, a large fanbase and (supposedly) improving NIL system, if you cant bring in top-quality transfers then you're not fit to be a head/assistant coach at Syracuse.

yeah just stop for a sec and imagine who a big time coach like Mark Few or even Nate Oats or Pitino or etc etc would be able to recruit to the Orange right now

 

[CardiacCuse]

Not sure why JJ gets more benefit of the doubt than Q . Overall Q has been the better player all year. The stats back that up.

both Q and JJ have won games single handedly for the orange this season

Q has also lost a bunch of games this year with some brutal performances...hes been brutal in a lot of the losses...cant "cope" vs bigger athletic defenders

cant say the same for JJ...he hasnt been that bad

 

[ar inj]

yeah just stop for a sec and imagine who a big time coach like Mark Few or even Nate Oats or Pitino or etc etc would be able to recruit to the Orange right now

Why? My fantasy team? Those coaches were and are never coming to coach at Syracuse. i want the coach we have to use the portal. Get a center, a small forward and a point guard.

 

[NYCorange]

Serious question: are we sure Mintz is gone next year? I know he's had NBA hype but honestly am not sure he gets drafted if the draft was today as an athletically average (For the NBA) PG without a great 3pt shot. Add in NIL stuff and it might make sense for him to stay-- of course transferring is not out of the question either.

 

[Sherman20]

Not the talk but the roster is probably flawed if Starling doesn’t come off the bench. Only 2 of him Cope and Westry should be on the floor together. I think Cope has passed Starling at this point.

Quality over quantity one center and one really good transfer who can shoot and the freshmen is going to be enough new faces.

Copeland and Westry are kind of similar players based on what we’ve heard about Westry and seen at Auburn. I think they can play together if they both develop their shots in the off-season but it might not be ideal. Starling is definitely the starting SG next season, no question. Copeland and Westry could split PG duties next year and then we bring in a high level SF transfer? Bell can be an elite shooter but I worry he won’t ever be versatile enough in other areas to be a starter on a high level team. At this point, he just doesn't produce enough in important areas like rebounding and passing. I hope he can improve those skills but I worry about his potential to do more than be a sniper.

 

[AZOrange]

I doubt Benny is back next year. He's going to lose most of his PT to Freeman. Very likely he will portal.

Yeah esp with Judah gone

 

[Sherman20]

Players we need to replace next year ---

Mintz (NBA)
Cuffe
Bell
Taylor
McLeod
Benny
Patterson
Carey
Copeland
Hima

These players are either too one-dimensional to be a big-time P5 starter or too inconsistent. I understand that we will not turn the roster over that much but that is who needs to be replaced...

If they want to stay they need to be recruited over and be open to an off-the-bench role otherwise peace.

Foundation for next year

JJ - Westry - Brown - Freeman - Moore

You’re wrong on Copeland. He’ll be a centerpiece of next year’s roster. Bell and Benny should probably both come off the bench. Not sure if either or both will be back. I assume Bell will be.

 

[Bayside44]

You’re wrong on Copeland. He’ll be a centerpiece of next year’s roster. Bell and Benny should probably both come off the bench. Not sure if either or both will be back. I assume Bell will be.

He's wrong on a lot. We aren't running off 9 guys.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What makes you think the program has the upper hand in these talks?

Is there a long line of better players waiting in line to come join the cuse that we need some the slots for?

The program have been on a downward slide for years. We are simply not relevant nationally anymore. We kind of lived on the largest BB attendance and a HOFer coach for a while and those are no longer primary considerations for many recruits. Fewer and fewer players who grew up "always wanted to play for the orange".

NIL and the portal has changed the game forever. You simply can't operate with the mindset of "we will keep A B C D E players and replace G H I with better players". At the end of every year is the musical chairs all over the game, it's more likely then not that the players you want to keep are either testing for NBA waters despite not being ready or asking for more NIL money that the coaches are trying to arrange, and then you are half a dozen players who left other programs who have expressed interests because they do not fit their former programs and may or may not fit here but you have to roll the dices on because you don't know who might end up staying or leaving.

The end result is everyone is probably going to get a talk, then will be like 2 months of chaos.

More crying about spilled milk when JB is gone. Red is not JB FFS.

Amazing we got a McDonalds All American to sign here and still are involved with elite talent in future years based on this post and the two people who liked it. NIL is soooo bad toooo.

 

[Cuse181]

This team is incomplete. Losing Jesse they had to scramble to find someone, anyone to fill that void. Hunter Dickerson was never considering us. They got Westry and JJ and that's pretty good on paper, then Judah decided to return, and with Copland plus Cuff, seemingly we have real depth and athleticism, but no shooter. Taylor and Benny seem to have regressed, and here we are.

Looks like all the guys we got from the portal were previous HS recruits. Makes sense since the coaches already know them. We don't seem to be getting any impact transfer that we haven't previously recruited. That may be NIL related, no idea.

There isn't a DC, Billy or Sherman knocking on our doors. That was yesterday. Today it's a totally different ball game, you put a team together and you have a one year window to make some noises and after that it's musical chair all over again. I think the player development aspect, especially with bigs is a real problem. We can't wait 2-3 years to develop a big. This is a totally different skill set then the traditional 4 year model. We will see what AA can do. As for our "brand", I have come to accept that we are what the results say we are in recent years.

Well they didn’t need Dickerson, there were other players with a decent background in the portal who went to lower pedigree schools. It just appears the staff didn’t look very hard to find someone outside their Rolodex. As for chance and JJ, on paper they were good gets from a rankings standpoint but neither addressed the lack of shooting at the 2 and neither filled the hole at forward that syracus has dealt with for 2 years. The incompleteness is a direct result of the staff seemingly choosing familiarity over production.

 

[Cstate]

Serious question: are we sure Mintz is gone next year? I know he's had NBA hype but honestly am not sure he gets drafted if the draft was today as an athletically average (For the NBA) PG without a great 3pt shot. Add in NIL stuff and it might make sense for him to stay-- of course transferring is not out of the question either.

He will have to make the decision about cashing in on NIL (here or another school) or G-league money. Based on this season and what he needed to improve on, he won’t be in the NBA next year.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Why? My fantasy team? Those coaches were and are never coming to coach at Syracuse. i want the coach we have to use the portal. Get a center, a small forward and a point guard.

ok sure...you seriously think Syracuse cannot get an A-list coach if they wanted to???

Alabama, Gonzaga, St Johns, etc can ?

but Syracuse can't?

I know the program is down a bit...but come on...its still a big program on the overall landscape