The Wide Outs | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

The Wide Outs

Jackson also has the lowest drop %, graded the highest in running routes, had the best overall receiving rating, and most 1st downs. The one thing he wasn’t the best at was YAC. That was Peña. Jackson is a possession receiver.
Jackson is a dink and dunk guy and he can do that role very well. Peña has wiggle and can create in open space. Our biggest issue is finding a consistent possession type receiver who can also stretch the field (things Lemon and Sales were both very good at) and a consistent deep threat who can stretch the field.
 
Jackson also has the lowest drop %, graded the highest in running routes, had the best overall receiving rating, and most 1st downs. The one thing he wasn’t the best at was YAC. That was Peña. Jackson is a possession receiver.
Well, slap me and call me Susan.

My problem with Jackson is that he is a stiff runner, and as you alluded to, can only get so far with the ball in his hands ...because he runs straight away until he hits a wall

But if his route running and catching ability are as you say, that's probably why he gets so many looks to begin with
 
I always thought Jackson was a lot like Erv Phillips and believe Jackson put in better receding positions will be a YAC guy. He displays the most make a guy miss, plant and cut, start and stop type moves.
 
I always thought Jackson was a lot like Erv Phillips and believe Jackson put in better receding positions will be a YAC guy. He displays the most make a guy miss, plant and cut, start and stop type moves.
I guess we are seeing 2 different people
 
Jackson is the only guy who, in my mind anyway, has proven he is a good WR at this level.

I think he is a given to be our top go to guy in the slot. Might also get some snaps on the outside.

You left Queeley out of your list completely. I think that is a mistake. He had a disappointing season but he has the most experience and production we have and I think he is almost surely going to be part of the rotation. He is probably our best blocker and has been more reliable than most in this group.

Cooper looks like an adequate slot guy. Not real fast, not real big, not really good hands. But he is a vet and I think we can count on him to know the play and not to panic, leave early, make a horrible penalty trying to block someone, etc.

I am thinking Coop is going to battle Pena for PT as our second slot guy. Looked to me as though Pena was playing slot most of the time he was in last season (which wasn't a ton). He got hurt and missed a lot of time with that injury. I think he would have gotten a lot more production and touches if not for that injury. But Pena has to be one of our fastest WRs, doesn't look really comfortable going to balls thrown over the middle and maybe is better suited to outside WR.

I have heard a lot of good things about Gadsden. Haven't seen him play. I like he is the son of a player and that he appears to have some toughness. That is something we haven't had much of for a while with this group.

I liked the film of all of our young WRs but Hatcher for some reason really stuck out to me. I think he can be a special guy, especially with YAC. He is my darkhorse I am hoping explodes on the scene this spring. Guessing it will be him or Gadsden.

Williams is another guy I really haven't seen play. Between HS and college, he has been injured so much, I am not putting any expectations om him ever contributing.
I think the thought with CJ Hayes is that this is a guy who is experienced, will remember the snap count and the route he was asked to run, will line up on sides and not move before the snap. Our youngsters were so bad at the basics, I think we felt we needed someone who has been through a few years of college ball and knows how to be a WR. I don't expect him to make huge contributions on the field. Hopefully he will set an example and lead the group. That would be huge.

Alford is another guy we gave a lot of chances to last year. He ran the wrong route, dropped balls, made a series of awful penalties, was not looking when the ball was thrown to him...you name a mistake, he made it. But he has size and strength and maybe he is about done with screwing up.

I hope so. He is everything you want when you look at him standing on the sideline.
Getting in waaay late here. Agree with mostly everything tomcat says in his summary.

Completely agree with Courtney Jackson being the WR go to at this level. Led the team in receptions in 2021 - 48 catches for 460 YDS, but also added 3 PR's for 110 YDS and 1 TD, 4 KR for 78 YDS, PFF all ACC. 8 catches for 92 YDS, 2 TDS against Pitt. He's a valuable commodity for us and hopefully will stay uninjured to contribute all season. Runs a 4.5 which to the uninitiated is very fast.

Hatcher's film, if you have not watched it, you should. The "small receiver in the room at 6'3" is fast, explosive and has great hands and as is mentioned above I as well think he's something special.

The other thing I have to say about the WR's is that the coaches have added to a WR room who have speed which the position requires IMO.

Donovan Brown is the standout here with speed just below the elite level, 100 10.95, 200 21.83, 400 48.46, 40 4.4. For those of you who aren't familiar with track speed, those numbers are the new fast for WR's on this team. Hopefully his hands are as soft and he catches balls as fast as he runs.

I'm not going to defend Alford for last year, per above - I agree, but he started ball late went from Montreal to Fla to learn the game and in 2022 he's going to be more focused, know the playbook and catch more passes like the one that got me out of my seat cheering when he outraced and caught with those 3XL+ hands the 45 yard pass for touchdown that sealed our win in the game at VT. Special size and talent is going to shine better than it did last year for him.

For the 14 WR's in the room I think the most important thing we have going for us with admittedly young but talented WR's is the hiring of Robert Anae, Jason Beck and Michael Johnson. With their knowledge and experience I believe this years group will gain knowledge of how to play the position,
catch the ball, develop a chemistry with their QB and learn how to score via the pass. It's about time we had someone like Marvin Harrison step up and be THE GO TO GUY. I do hope that happens.
 
I guess we are seeing 2 different people

I guess so. kid is smooth though and hasn’t been put in a position to showcase his talent.

When you see him return this punt there’s no reason that can’t be after catching passes. Starts with utilizing him correctly and getting him into space.

 
Getting in waaay late here. Agree with mostly everything tomcat says in his summary.

Completely agree with Courtney Jackson being the WR go to at this level. Led the team in receptions in 2021 - 48 catches for 460 YDS, but also added 3 PR's for 110 YDS and 1 TD, 4 KR for 78 YDS, PFF all ACC. 8 catches for 92 YDS, 2 TDS against Pitt. He's a valuable commodity for us and hopefully will stay uninjured to contribute all season. Runs a 4.5 which to the uninitiated is very fast.

Hatcher's film, if you have not watched it, you should. The "small receiver in the room at 6'3" is fast, explosive and has great hands and as is mentioned above I as well think he's something special.

The other thing I have to say about the WR's is that the coaches have added to a WR room who have speed which the position requires IMO.

Donovan Brown is the standout here with speed just below the elite level, 100 10.95, 200 21.83, 400 48.46, 40 4.4. For those of you who aren't familiar with track speed, those numbers are the new fast for WR's on this team. Hopefully his hands are as soft and he catches balls as fast as he runs.

I'm not going to defend Alford for last year, per above - I agree, but he started ball late went from Montreal to Fla to learn the game and in 2022 he's going to be more focused, know the playbook and catch more passes like the one that got me out of my seat cheering when he outraced and caught with those 3XL+ hands the 45 yard pass for touchdown that sealed our win in the game at VT. Special size and talent is going to shine better than it did last year for him.

For the 14 WR's in the room I think the most important thing we have going for us with admittedly young but talented WR's is the hiring of Robert Anae, Jason Beck and Michael Johnson. With their knowledge and experience I believe this years group will gain knowledge of how to play the position,
catch the ball, develop a chemistry with their QB and learn how to score via the pass. It's about time we had someone like Marvin Harrison step up and be THE GO TO GUY. I do hope that happens.
Agree on Jackson. Not sure why people are so down on him. Like he cant improve his numbers. A strong work eithic and reliable pass scheme will help increase his production. IMO Etta Tawo, Ishmeal, Jackson and Custis were reliable guys that could make a play for you.
 
I guess so. kid is smooth though and hasn’t been put in a position to showcase his talent.

When you see him return this punt there’s no reason that can’t be after catching passes. Starts with utilizing him correctly and getting him into space.

It's a nice return, and a much needed score in that game. He did show great speed in open space.

From my perspective, Jackson was not really contested on this play (although, again, he did break away with speed). He also showed great vision to know where to run.

But Jackson is not going to have that kind of space created for him during a typical offensive play. That return was just as much a demonstration of great blocking by the return team and a lack of kick coverage by BC.

My 2 cents
 
Jackson is a dink and dunk guy and he can do that role very well. Peña has wiggle and can create in open space. Our biggest issue is finding a consistent possession type receiver who can also stretch the field (things Lemon and Sales were both very good at) and a consistent deep threat who can stretch the field.
Pena has wiggle? I dont see that yet. I think some of us are putting too much value on that TD catch vs Clemson. Love the play but that was more about Clemson's poor tackling.
 
I believe we have talent on this team at all positions. I actually think that the WR group is going to be fine. as we witnessed with the OL coaching matters. Scheme matters. Play calling matters. Most of which have been mediocre at best under Dino. We now have a solid coaching staff on both sides of the ball, and it is going to make a huge difference. Syracuse is never going to win on talent alone. We need to get the best out of the talent we do have. Our schedule is brutal so we most likely will not improve much in the win loss column, but we will see significant improvement across the board. Most especially at the WR and QB positions. Two areas that have been poorly coached for the last six years. I'm excited to see what the future holds.
 
I believe we have talent on this team at all positions. I actually think that the WR group is going to be fine. as we witnessed with the OL coaching matters. Scheme matters. Play calling matters. Most of which have been mediocre at best under Dino. We now have a solid coaching staff on both sides of the ball, and it is going to make a huge difference. Syracuse is never going to win on talent alone. We need to get the best out of the talent we do have. Our schedule is brutal so we most likely will not improve much in the win loss column, but we will see significant improvement across the board. Most especially at the WR and QB positions. Two areas that have been poorly coached for the last six years. I'm excited to see what the future holds.
Amen
 
Figured out. Who is running the Baylor O currentl?
Dungey ran it fine. Devito couldn’t just a year later. Any number of reasons why other teams aren’t using it.
 
Agree. He finds creases and has break away speed but wiggle means something different for me and I havent seen him do it at the wr position yet.

Right. That's why I see Pena getting play calls for him in the form of misdirections/sweeps/reverses etc. Where the defense is moving one way and he can cut it back. Haven't see the ability for him to be a guy that catches a WR screen just yet. But I think he's a playmaker for sure.
 
Pena has wiggle? I dont see that yet. I think some of us are putting too much value on that TD catch vs Clemson. Love the play but that was more about Clemson's poor tackling.

He seems consistently dangerous on kick returns. We're talking about the same guy, right? Because that's not all "straight line speed", he makes some good cuts.
 
He seems consistently dangerous on kick returns. We're talking about the same guy, right? Because that's not all "straight line speed", he makes some good cuts.The
The sight line of a kick returner is completely different than that of a wr.
Two very different positions. One doesn't equate to the other
 
The sight line of a kick returner is completely different than that of a wr.
Two very different positions. One doesn't equate to the other

The question was whether or not Pena has "wiggle", not how the positions are different. He's a pretty good punt returner, too. Perhaps you would find the proximity of the defender to be a better match there.
 
He seems consistently dangerous on kick returns. We're talking about the same guy, right? Because that's not all "straight line speed", he makes some good cuts.
Pena has great burst and subtle moves. He's a good return guy. Wiggle means something different to me. Its not just about making cuts. Its about making people miss. Jukes, stop and goes, hesistations. Thats what I think of when I hear wiggle. I havent seen Pena do that at Wr yet.
 
The question was whether or not Pena has "wiggle", not how the positions are different. He's a pretty good punt returner, too. Perhaps you would find the proximity of the defender to be a better match there.
To clarify i believe his " wiggle" is better based on his field of vision.
 
Pena has great burst and subtle moves. He's a good return guy. Wiggle means something different to me. Its not just about making cuts. Its about making people miss. Jukes, stop and goes, hesistations. Thats what I think of when I hear wiggle. I havent seen Pena do that at Wr yet.

When I played football as a kid, I played cornerback mostly, and returned kicks. We had a guy on my team who was a 10 sec. 100 yard man, and a terrific all-sports athlete.

The coach had him running drills as a receiver one-on-one, and we got matched up a few times that practice. I was pretty fast, too. But the thing was, he used subtle moves, he used just a bit of a shake, just a twitch, and I bit on it. Several times.

Sometimes, you don't need to show someone a lot of move to get them wrong footed, if you know what I mean. But yeah, Pena doesn't seem like one of those stop-and-go guys necessarily. He's got more of those subtle moves, like you said.
 
When I played football as a kid, I played cornerback mostly, and returned kicks. We had a guy on my team who was a 10 sec. 100 yard man, and a terrific all-sports athlete.

The coach had him running drills as a receiver one-on-one, and we got matched up a few times that practice. I was pretty fast, too. But the thing was, he used subtle moves, he used just a bit of a shake, just a twitch, and I bit on it. Several times.

Sometimes, you don't need to show someone a lot of move to get them wrong footed, if you know what I mean. But yeah, Pena doesn't seem like one of those stop-and-go guys necessarily. He's got more of those subtle moves, like you said.
I agree. Good points.
 

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