the WR room

[JRHEETER]

Amba Etta Tawo had a monster year without a playbook.

Steve Ishmael had great success at SU without a playbook.

Trishton Jackson did as well.

If I’m not mistaken……..they had at least a dedicated route tree.

Gilbert canned all of that and had variable routes. Meaning, just run around and try to get open. Kind of like pick up football in the backyard.

That requires the QB and WR to be so in sync to do that it’s insane. GS was brought in at week 4. He never had a chance this season to get on the same page as the WRs. Remember all summer TD got the first team run.

Gilbert could have at least drawn up some routes to help his qb and wr out.

There’s a reason Gilbert has been fired…..

 

[upperdeck]

If I’m not mistaken……..they had at least a dedicated route tree.

Gilbert canned all of that and had variable routes. Meaning, just run around and try to get open. Kind of like pick up football in the backyard.

That requires the QB and WR to be so in sync to do that it’s insane. GS was brought in at week 4. He never had a chance this season to get on the same page as the WRs. Remember all summer TD got the first team run.

Gilbert could have at least drawn up some routes to help his qb and wr out.

There’s a reason Gilbert has been fired…..

wait? what? Dino has been doing that since day 1 with the variable routes? Gilbert didnt bring that in.

go back and watch Eric and Phillips. why do we think that caught 100 passes together

 

[JRHEETER]

wait? what? Dino has been doing that since day 1 with the variable routes? Gilbert didnt bring that in.

go back and watch Eric and Phillips. why do we think that caught 100 passes together

I thought that was a switch with Gilbert. I def could be completely mistaken

 

[sutomcat]

What I don't understand is why were our WRs in Babers year 1 pretty good at it, and the WRs in Babers year 6 pretty... not good at it?

My understanding is that the idea of introducing flexible routes for the WRs was introduced for this season. We have not been using it until now. I believe this idea was taken from the pros, where you can have a QB and a group of WRs working together for years to get everyone on the same page. For the NFL, I think it can be a really effective way to optimize the passing game, especially against the great defenses one sees at that level.

For the college level, with a really inexperienced group of WRs, I think it was an awful idea. When Tommy played terribly and had to be benched, and we had to go to a guy who just joined the program this year, it become a really bad idea. When it turned out Taj was going to make no contribution for the season, it blew up in Sterlin's face even worse.

In retrospect, we never should have even tried it. And we certainly should have bagged it sooner than the last game of the season.

Decisions like this are what get people fired.

 

[Keger03]

My understanding is that the idea of introducing flexible routes for the WRs was introduced for this season. We have not been using it until now. I believe this idea was taken from the pros, where you can have a QB and a group of WRs working together for years to get everyone on the same page. For the NFL, I think it can be a really effective way to optimize the passing game, especially against the great defenses one sees at that level.

For the college level, with a really inexperienced group of WRs, I think it was an awful idea. When Tommy played terribly and had to be benched, and we had to go to a guy who just joined the program this year, it become a really bad idea. When it turned out Taj was going to make no contribution for the season, it blew up in Sterlin's face even worse.

In retrospect, we never should have even tried it. And we certainly should have bagged it sooner than the last game of the season.

Decisions like this are what get people fired.

Do we know why the VA Tech second half was very successful at throwing and open receivers and then it just disappeared? Did they change something then or was it just working like it was supposed to?

 

[baggerbob]

Amba Etta Tawo had a monster year without a playbook.

Steve Ishmael had great success at SU without a playbook.

Trishton Jackson did as well.

Phillips, and Estime did pretty well the 1st year without a playbook.

 

[721Comstock]

It all clicks somewhere around game 86

FIFY.

 

[sutomcat]

Do we know why the VA Tech second half was very successful at throwing and open receivers and then it just disappeared? Did they change something then or was it just working like it was supposed to?

VT had a bad defense and a poor approach towards stopping our offense.

Those last few games...UL, NC State and Pitt, where against teams with really good DL that were able to dominate our OL, whose health got progressively worse after Vet had his season ending injury against FSU.

UL, NC State and Pitt all loaded up their defense to stop the run and force us to beat them with the pass. We had 3 fundamental weaknesses on offense this year.

1) Poor pass blocking
2) WRs who often struggled to get open
3) Poor passing/decision making

Teams dared us to beat them deep, even going back to the VT game.

I think that TD pass Garrett threw to Alford was the last time we were able to complete one, and it was the only one we were able to complete against the Hokies (still stunned that they stayed in man coverage late in the game like they did).

 

[Ringostar57]

This all boils down to not being able to recruit to what you want to do.

 

[Melancer46]

I think this sort of system is a mistake as well, but I'm fairly certain it isn't as bizarre as some of you think. Ole Miss did the same thing for example even though they had absurdly talented WRs in DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, and DaMarkus Lodge at the time.

 

[Bulldog04]

If there’s no playbook what has been so hard this whole time to learn about the offense? Dino say it’s takes years. What am I missing?

 

[money3189]

Not sure why people have to go to the extreme when discussing matters with SU football. Options routes are used in every college team and a lots of HS teams. Now something is definitely wrong with the way we execute them ( past few years). I dont know if its the QB, the Wr's. I dont know if they use them too much or not. I would rather see them not rely on them as much. We threw a lot of quick game most of the season so to say all we do is run a backyard pass attack is not true.

 

[JRHEETER]

Not sure why people have to go to the extreme when discussing matters with SU football. Options routes are used in every college team and a lots of HS teams. Now something is definitely wrong with the way we execute them ( past few years). I dont know if its the QB, the Wr's. I dont know if they use them too much or not. I would rather see them not rely on them as much. We threw a lot of quick game most of the season so to say all we do is run a backyard pass attack is not true.

Because we aren’t using just option routes from the way I understand it

It’s literally, run some type of route and find an opening.

It’s not an option route like if the LB are inside go outside. That’s not too hard for qbs and WRs to get on the same page

When every player has no base route and is just running on the field the route they like, it’s hard for qbs and WRs to be on the same page.

Maybe I’m confused by what was being run, but that’s how I understand it

 

[money3189]

Because we aren’t using just option routes from the way I understand it

It’s literally, run some type of route and find an opening.

It’s not an option route like if the LB are inside go outside. That’s not too hard for qbs and WRs to get on the same page

When every player has no base route and is just running on the field the route they like, it’s hard for qbs and WRs to be on the same page.

Maybe I’m confused by what was being run, but that’s how I understand it

Some of them are simple option routes and some are read routes ( based on how the DB plays you or how the zone defenders react). They are not free styling like you think. The read routes are the ones that seem to be the issue but they've ran them since 2016. So you cant say the concepts dont work. What you can say is there has been bad execution of it. Poor pass pro, poor QB reads and throws and poor Wr's reads leads to poor execution.

 

[upperdeck]

Some of them are simple option routes and some are read routes ( based on how the DB plays you or how the zone defenders react). They are not free styling like you think. The read routes are the ones that seem to be the issue but they've ran them since 2016. So you cant say the concepts dont work. What you can say is there has been bad execution of it. Poor pass pro, poor QB reads and throws and poor Wr's reads leads to poor execution.

far too many throws being rushed is also an issue.. how many times did Shrader throw it to a kid who hasnt finished his route yet? Either way the QB still needs to understanding what the D is doing to know which WR he should be throwing to. I thinks about 50/50.. throws that the QB should have never been throwing and WRs running to space the QB doesnt expect.. When you throw a slant and 2-3 DBs/LBS are in the way then you are not reading the D correctly.. Also its not clear if all the WRs run option routes at the same time.. Maybe you run a TE drag and a inside slant and then the Outside guy has the option. or you run a bubble and one clears out one runs a sideline and only 1 guy has an option based on what the D does..

when you dont see the all 22 who knows.. And even then if a guy cant beat anyone 1x1 does it really matter what the call is. the QB didnt have time to scan 4-5 guys to find the one who did beat someone

 

[money3189]

far too many throws being rushed is also an issue.. how many times did Shrader throw it to a kid who hasnt finished his route yet? Either way the QB still needs to understanding what the D is doing to know which WR he should be throwing to. I thinks about 50/50.. throws that the QB should have never been throwing and WRs running to space the QB doesnt expect.. When you throw a slant and 2-3 DBs/LBS are in the way then you are not reading the D correctly.. Also its not clear if all the WRs run option routes at the same time.. Maybe you run a TE drag and a inside slant and then the Outside guy has the option. or you run a bubble and one clears out one runs a sideline and only 1 guy has an option based on what the D does..

when you dont see the all 22 who knows.. And even then if a guy cant beat anyone 1x1 does it really matter what the call is. the QB didnt have time to scan 4-5 guys to find the one who did beat someone

I agree with you. Good points

 

[DMDMD]

Because we aren’t using just option routes from the way I understand it

It’s literally, run some type of route and find an opening.

It’s not an option route like if the LB are inside go outside. That’s not too hard for qbs and WRs to get on the same page

When every player has no base route and is just running on the field the route they like, it’s hard for qbs and WRs to be on the same page.

Maybe I’m confused by what was being run, but that’s how I understand it

I refuse to believe they are utilizing the same offensive philosophy we ran in the neighborhood football games.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I didn't realize that Taj had more catches this year than Queely, Sharod, and Alford. He played in 3 games.

We better hit the portal otherwise we really should go to 2 WR sets next season. Why have 3 guys over a 2nd RB or 2nd TE?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Hiring a new OC might finally luck us into some WRs.

Its crazy how we can recruit NFL talent in the secondary year after year but our WRs are worse than what Umass and Uconn trot out there.

I like Alford but we have to make him #3 or we will be disappointed. The rest of the roster are 4th/5th WRs at best at this level.

 

[tep624]

Simply put - we need to overhaul the passing game, overhaul the WR depth chart, incorporate TE's into the passing game, and get at minimum 1 portal OL capable of starting next year. We do those 4 things and we do them well this offseason, and Shrader will have the tools in his toolbox to be successful. Then it's on him at that point to develop.

Right now there are so many things wrong with our passing game just fundamentally (the WR depth chart for example) that there are plenty of places to point fingers.

 

[cuseincincy]

I still believe in the right situation, TD could excel - a dominant OL and a stable of athletic, dynamic WRs who could get separation and fly. We were never able to put that group together. TD was a bad fit.

With all seriousness...TD would have been pretty good playing at Bama the last few years...

 

[kcsu]

There isnt one thing in our passing game that is worth saving. The new OC needs to start clean. All positions with the exception of Tucker should be open competition.
We obviously need to bring in talent at the WR position and at the RB position as after Tucker we have an unproven Power back coming off a significant injury and a player who is prone to fumbling.