There is a reason our D is so much better than our O

[kcsu]

Its simple coaching. Shafer Tim and Chuck are the best coaches we have period. Lester in my opinion is a very good coach but the rest of the O side of the ball is a hodge podge of coaches all with different backgrounds and strategies. Chuck Tim and HCSS are of the same mind set and basically run the same D. On the O side of the ball there is zero agreement. George tried to install an O that he just learned this summer and has never coached or game planned for. We have an O line coach who has NEVER coached the position. We need an identity on O and we need someone on this staff to step up. Shafer is in a really tough spot. I believe that he goes with Lester next year and that we see much more of a vertical game than the zone read that George installed. Im not sure how you fix this but it seems as if there isnt an identity and that we are lost. The talent level is much better than the product on the field and that is on the coaches. It is going to be interesting to see what Shafer does

 

[Crusty]

Well said. In retrospect one wonders why Shafer hired McDonald over Lester. Lester had the experience in play calling and was a terrific college QB. He also worked for Bill Cubit who is a very good offensive coach. (Just look at what he has done for Illinois in a short time.) I always thought that Lester was Shafer's insurance policy but that never made a lot of sense to me. Sure he wanted McD for recruiting, but that was such a high stakes gamble.

Cubit makes $500,000 at Illinois. Wonder what our budget for OC is.

 

[Millhouse]

Well said. In retrospect one wonders why Shafer hired McDonald over Lester. Lester had the experience in play calling and was a terrific college QB. He also worked for Bill Cubit who is a very good offensive coach. (Just look at what he has done for Illinois in a short time.) I always thought that Lester was Shafer's insurance policy but that never made a lot of sense to me. Sure he wanted McD for recruiting, but that was such a high stakes gamble. Cubit makes $500,000 at Illinois. Wonder what our budget for OC is.

Illinois's offense is terrible.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well said. In retrospect one wonders why Shafer hired McDonald over Lester. Lester had the experience in play calling and was a terrific college QB. He also worked for Bill Cubit who is a very good offensive coach. (Just look at what he has done for Illinois in a short time.) I always thought that Lester was Shafer's insurance policy but that never made a lot of sense to me. Sure he wanted McD for recruiting, but that was such a high stakes gamble.

Cubit makes $500,000 at Illinois. Wonder what our budget for OC is.

Had Shafer hired Lester as OC we would have all been skeptical, confused, and suspicious of Shafer's coaching network. With McDonald at least we could envision the gamble.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Meh. The oline is beat to . Our two best playmakers and starting Qb are injured. Dont forget that Marrone's first few years were spent moving the best athletes he recruited to the defensive side of the ball. That's still a common thread with guys like Eskridge, Reddish and Thompson.

Candidly, neither unit stands out in any way whatsoever. Pretty marginal in all areas.

 

[Rocco]

Meh. The oline is beat to . Our two best playmakers and starting Qb are injured. Dont forget that Marrone's first few years were spent moving the best athletes he recruited to the defensive side of the ball. That's still a common thread with guys like Eskridge, Reddish and Thompson.

Candidly, neither unit stands out in any way whatsoever. Pretty marginal in all areas.

Our D doesn't stand out? I think our D is very, very good and can give opposing OC's fits.

 

[Crusty]

Had Shafer hired Lester as OC we would have all been skeptical, confused, and suspicious of Shafer's coaching network. With McDonald at least we could envision the gamble.

As opposed to now when we are! God this is frustrating.

 

[kcsu]

We have a top 20 D

 

[Crusty]

We have a top 20 D

Huh? By what measure. We are 42 in total D.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Our D doesn't stand out? I think our D is very, very good and can give opposing OC's fits.

Notre Dame and FSU did whatever they wanted against us. Nova essentially did the same with 30 less scholarship players. Maryland racked up big plays and points. Louisville dominated with a true freshman qb. Central Michigan lacked its best receiver and best running back when we played them (a good game for the D regardless imo). Wake Forest was atrocious. NC STATE not much better. The Clemson game was well played defensively.

You are kidding yourself if you think this defense is superlative They are good enough to win some games, but they arent striking fear into the hearts of anyone.

 

[kcsu]

Huh? By what measure. We are 42 in total D.

Im not looking at stats im saying that if i look at the top 20 ranked teams i feel as if our D is as good if not better than many of them.

 

[Crusty]

Im not looking at stats im saying that if i look at the top 20 ranked teams i feel as if our D is as good if not better than many of them.

You can't make up your own stats, man.

 

[kcsu]

You can't make up your own stats, man.

go look up the stats of the top 25 ranked teams D

 

[CanadianSU]

Chuck has done a great job this year.

 

[Crusty]

go look up the stats of the top 25 ranked teams D

You realize they are versus different opponents right?

 

[007]

go look up the stats of the top 25 ranked teams D

Here's a stat: Total Defense ranking, per ESPN, 58th. Pretty much middle of the road nationally.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Our defense is good and would be great, maybe top ten, if the offense kept it off the field. Those guys were whipped at the end of the first half.

 

[kcsu]

You realize they are versus different opponents right?

No i thought that everyone played the same schedule. Crusty my point is simple our D plays better than many ranked teams and against tougher comp. Say what you want but we have a really solid D this year one that if we had a decent O would have us in a bowl game and possibly a top 30 ranking.

 

[Crusty]

No i thought that everyone played the same schedule. Crusty my point is simple our D plays better than many ranked teams and against tougher comp. Say what you want but we have a really solid D this year one that if we had a decent O would have us in a bowl game and possibly a top 30 ranking.

I think we have a good defense but not top 20. The only really good offense we played was FSU, which is the only one that is the top 25 offenses when measured against FBS teams with winning records.

We're good but not elite by any means.

In order to get back to the top 25 we need to double our point production.

 

[SWC75]

Keep in mind that our defense gets little help from our offense. They'd be better statistically with a more consistently productive offense.

 

[007]

No i thought that everyone played the same schedule. Crusty my point is simple our D plays better than many ranked teams and against tougher comp. Say what you want but we have a really solid D this year one that if we had a decent O would have us in a bowl game and possibly a top 30 ranking.

Can you point to any single stat that supports your theory?

You make declarative statements based on your opinion, which is fine. But, it's not supported by any factual data, at least none that I can find.

In fact, data anaylsis that looks at Defensive Strength of Schedule and the likelihood that an "elite defense" (two standard deviations better than average) would have an above-average Defensive Efficiency rating against each of the offenses it has faced over the season, places SU at 53rd in the nation

If you filtered all drives in college football (FBS) to eliminate first-half clock-kills and end-of-game garbage drives and scores, and then performed a scoring rate analysis of the remaining possessions (adjusted defensive efficiency), SU would be ranked 67th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef

 

[kcsu]

My point is that you cant judge simply based on Stats. Yes it is my opinion one that i believe in. This D plays as well if not better than many of the top 30 teams D. Dont you agree

 

[007]

My point is that you cant judge simply based on Stats. Yes it is my opinion one that i believe in. This D plays as well if not better than many of the top 30 teams D. Dont you agree

I absolutely agree that stats do not tell the whole story. Do i think that this D does a good job of keeping us in most games, yes I do. Do i agree that "this D plays as well if not better than many of the top 30 teams?" Nope.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I absolutely agree that stats do not tell the whole story. Do i think that this D does a good job of keeping us in most games, yes I do. Do i agree that "this D plays as well if not better than many of the top 30 teams?" Nope.

Do the stats keep track of how many times the d gets a stop and then the o has a 3 and out?

Basically- how many possessions the other team gets due to offensive ineptitude.

 

[007]

Do the stats keep track of how many times the d gets a stop and then the o has a 3 and out?

Basically- how many possessions the other team gets due to offensive ineptitude.

Good question. I'm not sure. I think you would need to look at the number of plays defended and not the number of possessions. Maybe Millhouse would have, or know where to find that data. Too late for me.