there is no way that SS should be fired after

[TheCusian]

Definitely think that we should be in the hunt for bowl games, being mindful, though, that in some years, it just isn't going to happen. Building a powerhouse program takes time, and it's more than just coaches and players. AD and administrative support must also be in place. Fan support is just as important.

Agree. And thus boards attitude no matter how small or large its influence - could really bolster he program by being intentionally more positive.

My 2 cents.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I think his acceptance was conditional on qualifying academically - this is not unusual.

Right. That was the point I was trying to make- that SU isn't as restrictive as Stanford when it comes to admission, so it's reasonable to see why Harbaugh might have struggled to start.

 

[bcubs9497]

Agree. And thus boards attitude no matter how small or large its influence - could really bolster he program by being intentionally more positive.

My 2 cents.

Totally agree. I mentioned this in another thread, and do so now because it does bear repeating; parents and recruits DO actually read boards.

 

[anomander]

Agree. And thus boards attitude no matter how small or large its influence - could really bolster he program by being intentionally more positive.

My 2 cents.

I definitely agree fan support is important to the program, but the days of 100% blind faith are starting to wear thin. You can only ask so much of a fanbase without eventually starting to give them some results. This goes back decades. Things were bad in the late 70's, but then we got the Dome, and look at the results. A winning football program, and the fans reciprocated with 40k + in the stands each week. Then inexplicably the SUAD let things deteriorate to the point where we probably had the worst facilities of any P5 program. There is no reason things should have been allowed to get that bad. Instead of bowl earnings going to the SUAD it was put in the University general fund. That's a ton of money taken from the SUAD since there were some very good bowl games during that run. We finally got our facilities built back up to the point of respectability, but there was a long time where they were well below our peers.

So I do understand where it helps to have a positive attitude, but man after last season it's really really tough trying to get jacked up again. I think we all saw the hope, and started to get a taste of what it felt like to win again under Marrone, and even 2 years ago with the dramatic win over BC to gain bowl eligibility, plus the bowl win. Then last year happened. People are worried, or maybe even terrified that we're going to end up where we were before Marrone took over. I know I am very concerned, and I had 2015 targeted as our breakout year for a while.

I know I try as hard as I can to be positive, but we're going to need something to be positive about. The years of blind faith are wearing very thin, even for the die-hards.

 

[jr4750]

I definitely agree fan support is important to the program, but the days of 100% blind faith are starting to wear thin. You can only ask so much of a fanbase without eventually starting to give them some results. This goes back decades. Things were bad in the late 70's, but then we got the Dome, and look at the results. A winning football program, and the fans reciprocated with 40k + in the stands each week. Then inexplicably the SUAD let things deteriorate to the point where we probably had the worst facilities of any P5 program. There is no reason things should have been allowed to get that bad. Instead of bowl earnings going to the SUAD it was put in the University general fund. That's a ton of money taken from the SUAD since there were some very good bowl games during that run. We finally got our facilities built back up to the point of respectability, but there was a long time where they were well below our peers.

So I do understand where it helps to have a positive attitude, but man after last season it's really really tough trying to get jacked up again. I think we all saw the hope, and started to get a taste of what it felt like to win again under Marrone, and even 2 years ago with the dramatic win over BC to gain bowl eligibility, plus the bowl win. Then last year happened. People are worried, or maybe even terrified that we're going to end up where we were before Marrone took over. I know I am very concerned, and I had 2015 targeted as our breakout year for a while.

I know I try as hard as I can to be positive, but we're going to need something to be positive about. The years of blind faith are wearing very thin, even for the die-hards.

Yes. We seriously need a breakthrough year, and then another solid year. We've paid our dues.

 

[TheCusian]

I definitely agree fan support is important to the program, but the days of 100% blind faith are starting to wear thin. You can only ask so much of a fanbase without eventually starting to give them some results. This goes back decades. Things were bad in the late 70's, but then we got the Dome, and look at the results. A winning football program, and the fans reciprocated with 40k + in the stands each week. Then inexplicably the SUAD let things deteriorate to the point where we probably had the worst facilities of any P5 program. There is no reason things should have been allowed to get that bad. Instead of bowl earnings going to the SUAD it was put in the University general fund. That's a ton of money taken from the SUAD since there were some very good bowl games during that run. We finally got our facilities built back up to the point of respectability, but there was a long time where they were well below our peers. So I do understand where it helps to have a positive attitude, but man after last season it's really really tough trying to get jacked up again. I think we all saw the hope, and started to get a taste of what it felt like to win again under Marrone, and even 2 years ago with the dramatic win over BC to gain bowl eligibility, plus the bowl win. Then last year happened. People are worried, or maybe even terrified that we're going to end up where we were before Marrone took over. I know I am very concerned, and I had 2015 targeted as our breakout year for a while. I know I try as hard as I can to be positive, but we're going to need something to be positive about. The years of blind faith are wearing very thin, even for the die-hards.

I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote. I think we have a lot of reasons to be down on Syracuse football. But for me - I'd rather get sky high and positive every year and roll through the preseason amped up then jaded.

I think too many here hold "being honest" and "telling it like it is" as a higher priority than pure fandom. If I had a buck for every time someone used "orange colored glasses" as a derogatory term I could put a new roof on the dome myself.

Everyone is entitled to how they feel - but as Bcubs lives/knows - sharing every biting criticism can add up.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote. I think we have a lot of reasons to be down on Syracuse football. But for me - I'd rather get sky high and positive every year and roll through the preseason amped up then jaded.

I think too many here hold "being honest" and "telling it like it is" as a higher priority than pure fandom. If I had a buck for every time someone used "orange colored glasses" as a derogatory term I could put a new roof on the dome myself.

Everyone is entitled to how they feel - but as Bcubs lives/knows - sharing every biting criticism can add up.

I do not see a lack of harmony between pure fandom and being honest. I understand others do. There will be friction there.

I also believe that a lot of people consider some of the fair criticisms made on this board to be biting. Mostly it just comes down to different definitons. That is a healthy thing for the board because it leads to discussion, and the hope is if we're talking we're getting smarter and that makes us better fans.

Obviously this is an extreme example, but if you get too much of a certain type of agreeable fandom that approaches worship and you end up with Penn State and the inability those fans have to accept reality.

 

[anomander]

I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote. I think we have a lot of reasons to be down on Syracuse football. But for me - I'd rather get sky high and positive every year and roll through the preseason amped up then jaded.

I think too many here hold "being honest" and "telling it like it is" as a higher priority than pure fandom. If I had a buck for every time someone used "orange colored glasses" as a derogatory term I could put a new roof on the dome myself.

Everyone is entitled to how they feel - but as Bcubs lives/knows - sharing every biting criticism can add up.

Ya but would be the point of having forums like this if everyone agreed with one another, and everyone blindly accepts every decision made by the staff? To me part of the fun of being a fan is going to places like this to discuss the team. I want to see different takes, and fully expect others to have different opinions then myself. I don't think it makes anybody less of a fan if they are at times critical of the program. I can guarantee almost every single "negative" poster turns into a cheering fan on game days.

Also, I don't really see the concern of outsiders visiting the board and seeing "criticism" as a huge problem. First, at least it shows the fanbase is passionate, and actively discuss what they see as issues. Second, I would love to see the fanbase that has reached utopia. There's no such thing as sports fans who aren't overly critical of their team, so we aren't really in danger of standing out.

 

[TheCusian]

Ya but would be the point of having forums like this if everyone agreed with one another, and everyone blindly accepts every decision made by the staff? To me part of the fun of being a fan is going to places like this to discuss the team. I want to see different takes, and fully expect others to have different opinions then myself. I don't think it makes anybody less of a fan if they are at times critical of the program. I can guarantee almost every single "negative" poster turns into a cheering fan on game days. Also, I don't really see the concern of outsiders visiting the board and seeing "criticism" as a huge problem. First, at least it shows the fanbase is passionate, and actively discuss what they see as issues. Second, I would love to see the fanbase that has reached utopia. There's no such thing as sports fans who aren't overly critical of their team, so we aren't really in danger of standing out.

I tend to agree with you. I've mixed it up with many here when I was passionate enough (or stupid enough).

I am more speaking towards the sarcasm, the biting comments - kind of the constant cloud of "we suck and will always suck" that some seem to bring.

I was half kidding about honesty/being realistic - that's an important role for the board. I'm just tired of the complaints. It's the old "be the answer that you seek" stuff.

 

[TheCusian]

I do not see a lack of harmony between pure fandom and being honest. I understand others do. There will be friction there. I also believe that a lot of people consider some of the fair criticisms made on this board to be biting. Mostly it just comes down to different definitons. That is a healthy thing for the board because it leads to discussion, and the hope is if we're talking we're getting smarter and that makes us better fans. Obviously this is an extreme example, but if you get too much of a certain type of agreeable fandom that approaches worship and you end up with Penn State and the inability those fans have to accept reality.

Agree. Very nice rebuttal.

I'm known to disagree and toss criticisms . I'm more speaking to the sarcasm, one-liners, just adding fuel to the fire posts. Making a reasoned criticism is one thing - dropping a "we suck" kind of post is garbage.

I appreciate you and Millhouse, Scooch - even Kaiser (a little) - for thought out arguments ...

 

[chakka3421]

Agree. Very nice rebuttal.

I'm known to disagree and toss criticisms . I'm more speaking to the sarcasm, one-liners, just adding fuel to the fire posts. Making a reasoned criticism is one thing - dropping a "we suck" kind of post is garbage.

I appreciate you and Millhouse, Scooch - even Kaiser (a little) - for thought out arguments ...

Well I don't appreciate some of the people you mentioned when they don't provide a "balanced" assessment of the program either.

See I was careful in my comments that as the head football coach Shafer made necessary changes with the entire offensive coaching staff. If he did not make these changes, then I would be in more agreement with others on the Board. So I do expect a different result next year but at this time I cannot really predict what that will be - that's why we have new seasons and play the games!

I was also careful in my assessment in that the schedule was changed this year and hopefully future years in that we start with weaker teams first, especially with a new playbook, and stronger teams later on. Expect improving coaching and player efficiency as more games are played - we should be better and more competitive as season progresses.

I also stated that we finally have a new IPF that Shafer took advantage of and changed the practice schedule and installed cameras to film both formal and informal practices. Also the IPF was built to spacially simulate the Dome - walls are where stands start and lighting is same - expect players knowing their positions better and hopefully fewer penalties and fewer players out of position too.

I also stated that the S&C program was changed back to what worked versus the speed conditioning that was put in place - expect fewer injuries and better conditioning.

I am so sick and tired of looking back when changes have been made. It's not blind faith, it's simply an assessment of changes made. The fear & negativity of those who have posted recently and quite frankly sound like broken records. And all I'm hearing is fear about going back to the Grob era. Stop living in the past as fear is paralyzing and doesn't allow for objective assessments.

And now for the balance. If we continue to perform badly given the changes to the coaching staff, facilities upgrades, recruiting improvements and favorable scheduling, then one can honestly start to make assessments about the HC and if he is the right person for the job. If you recall, Grob was making changes as well and by year 4 it was clear it was him, not the changes that he was making. It's far, far, far too early for this thread and topic. Year 4 yes.

But guess what - don't you think the coaching staff knows about all of this and that they need to win? That's why Shafer made these changes - so all get off the negative Nellie horse, turn the page, and like Rocco said lets get jacked for next year.

Expect a different result because of the changes that have been made. Nuff said.

 

[Finwad32]

Marshall HC Doc Holiday
Western Michgan HC PJ Fleck
Toledo HC Matt Campbell
Arizona State OC Matt Norvell
South Alabama HC Joey Jones


Here are 5 young up and coming coaches(except Holliday isn't that young) with exciting offensive minds and most with HC experience. I don't want a defensive coordinator as the next HC. We could probably get all of these coaches for about 2 million per year starting.

I'd like to start by saying, I think we go bowling this year. SS's staff will be chipped away at but the nucleus stays intact. I think everybody knows I support this staff.

Toledo HC Matt Campbell, former OC for them as well, was talked about in a lot of circles in the past. He's 26-13 as a HC since taking over at the end of 2011. He was known as a pretty innovative guy prior to the HC promotion. I doubt he leaves for anything other than another HC position, but, he's a guy I expect to climb the ladder.

If there ever needed to be changes made, which I hope there's not, he's a guy that I think should get consideration for what we might see on offense primarily.

 

[TheCusian]

Well I don't appreciate some of the people you mentioned when they don't provide a "balanced" assessment of the program either. See I was careful in my comments that as the head football coach Shafer made necessary changes with the entire offensive coaching staff. If he did not make these changes, then I would be in more agreement with others on the Board. So I do expect a different result next year but at this time I cannot really predict what that will be - that's why we have new seasons and play the games! I was also careful in my assessment in that the schedule was changed this year and hopefully future years in that we start with weaker teams first, especially with a new playbook, and stronger teams later on. Expect improving coaching and player efficiency as more games are played - we should be better and more competitive as season progresses. I also stated that we finally have a new IPF that Shafer took advantage of and changed the practice schedule and installed cameras to film both formal and informal practices. Also the IPF was built to spacially simulate the Dome - walls are where stands start and lighting is same - expect players knowing their positions better and hopefully fewer penalties and fewer players out of position too. I also stated that the S&C program was changed back to what worked versus the speed conditioning that was put in place - expect fewer injuries and better conditioning. I am so sick and tired of looking back when changes have been made. It's not blind faith, it's simply an assessment of changes made. The fear & negativity of those who have posted recently and quite frankly sound like broken records. And all I'm hearing is fear about going back to the Grob era. Stop living in the past as fear is paralyzing and doesn't allow for objective assessments. And now for the balance. If we continue to perform badly given the changes to the coaching staff, facilities upgrades, recruiting improvements and favorable scheduling, then one can honestly start to make assessments about the HC and if he is the right person for the job. If you recall, Grob was making changes as well and by year 4 it was clear it was him, not the changes that he was making. It's far, far, far too early for this thread and topic. Year 4 yes. But guess what - don't you think the coaching staff knows about all of this and that they need to win? That's why Shafer made these changes - so all get off the negative Nellie horse, turn the page, and like Rocco said lets get jacked for next year. Expect a different result because of the changes that have been made. Nuff said.

I'm not agreeing with those posters - only acknowledging that they back up their criticisms with thought out takes. And that's better than just blatant negativity.

I thoroughly agree with you and have very high hopes for Shafer and Lester this year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well I don't appreciate some of the people you mentioned when they don't provide a "balanced" assessment of the program either.

See I was careful in my comments that as the head football coach Shafer made necessary changes with the entire offensive coaching staff. If he did not make these changes, then I would be in more agreement with others on the Board. So I do expect a different result next year but at this time I cannot really predict what that will be - that's why we have new seasons and play the games!

I was also careful in my assessment in that the schedule was changed this year and hopefully future years in that we start with weaker teams first, especially with a new playbook, and stronger teams later on. Expect improving coaching and player efficiency as more games are played - we should be better and more competitive as season progresses.

I also stated that we finally have a new IPF that Shafer took advantage of and changed the practice schedule and installed cameras to film both formal and informal practices. Also the IPF was built to spacially simulate the Dome - walls are where stands start and lighting is same - expect players knowing their positions better and hopefully fewer penalties and fewer players out of position too.

I also stated that the S&C program was changed back to what worked versus the speed conditioning that was put in place - expect fewer injuries and better conditioning.

I am so sick and tired of looking back when changes have been made. It's not blind faith, it's simply an assessment of changes made. The fear & negativity of those who have posted recently and quite frankly sound like broken records. And all I'm hearing is fear about going back to the Grob era. Stop living in the past as fear is paralyzing and doesn't allow for objective assessments.

And now for the balance. If we continue to perform badly given the changes to the coaching staff, facilities upgrades, recruiting improvements and favorable scheduling, then one can honestly start to make assessments about the HC and if he is the right person for the job. If you recall, Grob was making changes as well and by year 4 it was clear it was him, not the changes that he was making. It's far, far, far too early for this thread and topic. Year 4 yes.

But guess what - don't you think the coaching staff knows about all of this and that they need to win? That's why Shafer made these changes - so all get off the negative Nellie horse, turn the page, and like Rocco said lets get jacked for next year.

Expect a different result because of the changes that have been made. Nuff said.

I don't fear the Grob era, personally. I fear that we're not actually going to see anything change as you're proposing. We're all chips in on this defense heavy philosophy, it hasn't produced very good results, the rest of college football is enjoying an era of great offense, and we play in a stadium that is particularly well suited to that but it's not our focus. I am less worried about Grobian football than I am that what we're doing leads us to having a low ceiling.

This past season took a lot out of me. For years I had my eyes on 2015 as the year we get back to relevancy nationally and the top 25. My confidence is shaken and honestly I'm tired of seeing us trying to win rock fights and knowing that's our best chance to win. It's exhausting and regularly has me questioning my sanity and weekly commitment to watching our program. It probably isn't healthy. So, if there's some catharsis talking about it here, so be it.

 

[Crusty]

I don't fear the Grob era, personally. I fear that we're not actually going to see anything change as you're proposing. We're all chips in on this defense heavy philosophy, it hasn't produced very good results, the rest of college football is enjoying an era of great offense, and we play in a stadium that is particularly well suited to that but it's not our focus. I am less worried about Grobian football than I am that what we're doing leads us to having a low ceiling.

This past season took a lot out of me. For years I had my eyes on 2015 as the year we get back to relevancy nationally and the top 25. My confidence is shaken and honestly I'm tired of seeing us trying to win rock fights and knowing that's our best chance to win. It's exhausting and regularly has me questioning my sanity and weekly commitment to watching our program. It probably isn't healthy. So, if there's some catharsis talking about it here, so be it.

You are not alone. But if we win we can move on from there. If we don't it will just be bad football.

 

[Alsacs]

Marshall HC Doc Holiday
Western Michgan HC PJ Fleck
Toledo HC Matt Campbell
Arizona State OC Matt Norvell
South Alabama HC Joey Jones


Here are 5 young up and coming coaches(except Holliday isn't that young) with exciting offensive minds and most with HC experience. I don't want a defensive coordinator as the next HC. We could probably get all of these coaches for about 2 million per year starting.

Hey Forza Azzurri Bump this one next.