there is no way that SS should be fired after

[GoSU96]

The last head coach didn't leave a decent qb on the roster. That is why we had to go get Allen.

Just stop.

They went 7-4 with a bad QB then.

How did that happen?

Because they abandoned their idiotic attempt to be a pass heavy offense with a team that the overwhelming strength was running the ball and playing defense.

Their solution to the "problem" was a disaster.

They should have stuck with Hunt or Loeb and played to their strengths. They wouldn't have done any worse and likely have done better out of the gate.

A lot of self inflicted wounds based on strategic decisions. There were choices made that made things worse than the expected degree of regression.

 

[Millhouse]

"The following year" is this last season for Shafer, I was referencing year 2, 2014 season.

i'm mostly on board with you. after this year it won't matter what marrone did or didn't leave him

 

[SUFaninNJ]

I'd like to see what coaches do you think Syracuse would seriously consider bringing in if some of you got your wish and Shafer was canned after this year. By seriously I mean based on what SU has done in the past and the amount of money they'd be expected to pay.

 

[Alsacs]

MSU had way more talent than Syracuse had. Not even in the same Universe. We don't have talent. The NFL draft tells you that. The talent we had when we were good shows you that. It isn't just qb. We couldn't get a yard three times against Nova.

Michigan State has been garbage outside these past few years under D'Antoni we aren't talking about Michigan or Ohio state. Nick Saban recruited talent they weren't a team he came to with talent and plus they had scholarship reductions which is part of the reason he went to LSU as he was ticked at the MSU administration. Scott Shafer didn't inherit the 2009 Syracuse orange he inherited mid of the road talent and in two years has shown his tenure as HC has been bottom of the road offense and slightly above average defense.
College football is Multi million dollar business and he used up his patience. Either bowl, elite recruiting class or buh-bye.

 

[Alsacs]

I'd like to see what coaches do you think Syracuse would seriously consider bringing in if some of you got your wish and Shafer was canned after this year. By seriously I mean based on what SU has done in the past and the amount of money they'd be expected to pay.

Marshall HC Doc Holiday
Western Michgan HC PJ Fleck
Toledo HC Matt Campbell
Arizona State OC Matt Norvell
South Alabama HC Joey Jones


Here are 5 young up and coming coaches(except Holliday isn't that young) with exciting offensive minds and most with HC experience. I don't want a defensive coordinator as the next HC. We could probably get all of these coaches for about 2 million per year starting.

 

[TheCusian]

Starting over is picking up a team that was sub 100 for four years straight. Not a team that was 17th and returned 3/5ths of the starting OL, with experienced backups, starting TE, one WR with experienced backups, the entire backfield. And how does that explain why they were worse the following year?

part 1: what you described was staring over
part 2: Injuries and McDonald

 

[GoSU96]

part 1: what you described was staring over
part 2: Injuries and McDonald

Then every team is starting over every year.

Fact: Kids graduate
Fact: Staffs change

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Marshall HC Doc Holiday
Western Michgan HC PJ Fleck
Toledo HC Matt Campbell
Arizona State OC Matt Norvell
South Alabama HC Joey Jones


Here are 5 young up and coming coaches(except Holliday isn't that young) with exciting offensive minds and most with HC experience. I don't want a defensive coordinator as the next HC. We could probably get all of these coaches for about 2 million per year starting.

I have no idea how much Shafer is getting paid. Would 2 million be more, less, or about the same?

 

[dasher]

Michigan State has been garbage outside these past few years under D'Antoni we aren't talking about Michigan or Ohio state. Nick Saban recruited talent they weren't a team he came to with talent and plus they had scholarship reductions which is part of the reason he went to LSU as he was ticked at the MSU administration. Scott Shafer didn't inherit the 2009 Syracuse orange he inherited mid of the road talent and in two years has shown his tenure as HC has been bottom of the road offense and slightly above average defense.
College football is Multi million dollar business and he used up his patience. Either bowl, elite recruiting class or buh-bye.

SS inherited bottom of the heap talent. No qb. No wide recievers of any skill and speed. I could go on We were average at best, mostly below average, in the Big East. His first year was better than any of the seasons Saint Marrone did here. Last year was bad. No qb's (the last coach could have helped there). It takes time. We would be an even bigger joke than we currently are if we replace another coach after just 3 seasons. Bill Walsh in his hey day couldn't make that offense look good with the talent we had . QB's that can't hit receivers. Receivers that can't get open. An Offensive line that can't get 1 yard in 3 tries against Nova. DB's that can't guard their man. Maybe SS isn't the guy. But that hasn't been proved and it won't be proved this year. Everyone wants almost instant results. Building a foundation takes time. Our brand has sucked for 15 years. There is no quick cure or a magic bullet. It's foolish and counter productive to think otherwise. To fire this staff, and replace them with God knows what, (yeah, I'm sure the next guy will be Vince Lombardi) would set recruiting back years. High school coaches will just think, I can't send a kid there, who knows what system they will be using in three years when they fire the next guy.

 

[TheCusian]

Then every team is starting over every year. Fact: Kids graduate Fact: Staffs change

If you want to be unwilling to see the difference in offensive teams between Nassib > Hunt as being more than normal (not to mention ACC being tougher) - than you're seeing things through crap colored glasses.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Marshall HC Doc Holiday
Western Michgan HC PJ Fleck
Toledo HC Matt Campbell
Arizona State OC Matt Norvell
South Alabama HC Joey Jones


Here are 5 young up and coming coaches(except Holliday isn't that young) with exciting offensive minds and most with HC experience. I don't want a defensive coordinator as the next HC. We could probably get all of these coaches for about 2 million per year starting.

Since I had no idea who any of those guys are, I took a look. I don't see how Jones is an exciting option. His teams have been 14-24 over the last 3 years and lost 5 of their last 6 games last year. At 52, is he still considered up and coming? With Mike Norvell I'm sure some would complain that we've gone the zero head coaching experience route before and that didn't get us anywhere. PJ Fleck has those WMU and NIU connections that we all know and love. His 2 years of HC experience brings along a record (9-16) pretty comparable to Shafer's (10-15). Which leaves us with Holliday and Campbell. Campbell has a good record in his 3 years at Toledo and is pretty young at 35. he also just signed an extension through 2020, although I can't fine exactly what he's making. Doc's got a proven track record and is making just north of 600K. From the salaries that I could find, 2 million looks like a big jump for any of these guys, and a big jump for SU as well. We'll see how it all plays out. I for one am hoping that Shafer rights the ship.

 

[Upstate]

"No QB" is completely inaccurate.

 

[Alsacs]

SS inherited bottom of the heap talent. No qb. No wide recievers of any skill and speed. I could go on We were average at best, mostly below average, in the Big East. His first year was better than any of the seasons Saint Marrone did here. Last year was bad. No qb's (the last coach could have helped there). It takes time. We would be an even bigger joke than we currently are if we replace another coach after just 3 seasons. Bill Walsh in his hey day couldn't make that offense look good with the talent we had . QB's that can't hit receivers. Receivers that can't get open. An Offensive line that can't get 1 yard in 3 tries against Nova. DB's that can't guard their man. Maybe SS isn't the guy. But that hasn't been proved and it won't be proved this year. Everyone wants almost instant results. Building a foundation takes time. Our brand has sucked for 15 years. There is no quick cure or a magic bullet. It's foolish and counter productive to think otherwise. To fire this staff, and replace them with God knows what, (yeah, I'm sure the next guy will be Vince Lombardi) would set recruiting back years. High school coaches will just think, I can't send a kid there, who knows what system they will be using in three years when they fire the next guy.

You have the constitutional right to this opinion but by this logic SS should have been extended after year 1. Our offense has sucked for 2 years and this coach gave the keys to Lester who doesn't inspire.
Our talent was bottom of the heap? If that is the case keeping SS is dumb as he hasn't recruited top 50 classes in his 2 recruiting classes and he and his staff haven't coached up what they have had to work with. Keeping SS set us back 2 years I hope with next year's schedule we can get 6 wins.

 

[dasher]

You have the constitutional right to this opinion but by this logic SS should have been extended after year 1. Our offense has sucked for 2 years and this coach gave the keys to Lester who doesn't inspire.
Our talent was bottom of the heap? If that is the case keeping SS is dumb as he hasn't recruited top 50 classes in his 2 recruiting classes and he and his staff haven't coached up what they have had to work with. Keeping SS set us back 2 years I hope with next year's schedule we can get 6 wins.

Not ready to say our recruiting the last two years hasn't been good enough. That may or may not turn out to be true. That is exactly my point. We don't know yet. Were you as good at your job in year one as you were in years three and four. I bet not. Most of us aren't. As for Lester, we shall see. By the way, a lot of fans wanted toi run JB out of town because of his early (and late, really) lack of success in the NCAA tournament. Buy low, sell high. everyone says it but you can't give stoks away when they are down and people rush to buy when they are up. Patience. everyone knows you need patience but no one wants to practice it.

 

[TheCusian]

The results are the results. But to pretend they exist in a vacuum so you can judge is silly.

 

[Alsacs]

Since I had no idea who any of those guys are, I took a look. I don't see how Jones is an exciting option. His teams have been 14-24 over the last 3 years and lost 5 of their last 6 games last year. At 52, is he still considered up and coming? With Mike Norvell I'm sure some would complain that we've gone the zero head coaching experience route before and that didn't get us anywhere. PJ Fleck has those WMU and NIU connections that we all know and love. His 2 years of HC experience brings along a record (9-16) pretty comparable to Shafer's (10-15). Which leaves us with Holliday and Campbell. Campbell has a good record in his 3 years at Toledo and is pretty young at 35. he also just signed an extension through 2020, although I can't fine exactly what he's making. Doc's got a proven track record and is making just north of 600K. From the salaries that I could find, 2 million looks like a big jump for any of these guys, and a big jump for SU as well. We'll see how it all plays out. I for one am hoping that Shafer rights the ship.

Jones took over a team from scratch and got them bowl eligbile. PJ Fleck went from 1-11 in his first year to 8-5 in his second year, Norvell is an offensive genius and is believed to be an upcoming HC. Campbell and Holliday would be top 2 choices. SS is rumored to be making around 1.5 per year.

 

[reedny]

76 out of 128(60%)Division 1 teams go bowling each year. If Syracuse which plays in a P5 conference and the program wasn't in total rebuild mode can't be in the top 60% two years in a row and don't have a respectable offense by year 3 SS has to be replaced unless the recruiting class is ridiculously good.

 

[reedny]

Stanford's admissions makes it very tough to get a quick fix done. SU doesn't have any academic restrictions for football admissions, other than NCAA eligibility.

I don't believe we take partial qualifiers, which is higher than the NCAA minimums. Second, the staff (to their credit) has prioritized recruits that can handle the academic load -- this is why the average GPA of the 2015 class is over 3.0. That's not stanford, but it's not even close to the minimum either. Lastly, our kids have to attend legitimate college-level classes ... which we all know is not always the case in P5 programs.

 

[orangenirvana]

Even gerg got four years. Somehow.

Which means anyone who can read past the elementary school level should get at least 4.5.

 

[rosconey]

cant afford to wait 4 years to figure out if hcss can coach-
the damage done letting the great guru go for 4 years still hasnt been overcome-

this year he shows he can coach or he gets the boot- and im not talking based on record as much as team improvement- like a offense that can score more than once every 3 games- special teams thats some what special -

 

[Macky44]

If you want to be unwilling to see the difference in offensive teams between Nassib > Hunt as being more than normal (not to mention ACC being tougher) - than you're seeing things through crap colored glasses.

Alot of people on this forum wear those poop glasses sadly.

 

[GoSU96]

If you want to be unwilling to see the difference in offensive teams between Nassib > Hunt as being more than normal (not to mention ACC being tougher) - than you're seeing things through crap colored glasses.

Unreal.

The difference was more than normal? Based on what?

QB's graduate, WR's graduate. Was a drop off expected, of course, never said it wasn't. One job for coaches is to minimize the disruption. That the problem I have, they amplified the disruption.

Crap colored glasses, you really are clueless.

 

[TheCusian]

Unreal.

The difference was more than normal? Based on what?

QB's graduate, WR's graduate. Was a drop off expected, of course, never said it wasn't. One job for coaches is to minimize the disruption. That the problem I have, they amplified the disruption.

Crap colored glasses, you really are clueless.

The question was "did Shafer get hired for continuity"? I said he was and it worked on the defensive side of the ball. The offense went through a rebuild. For the final time, this is the difference between Marrone's last year and Shafer's first:

- Lost an NFL caliber QB
- Lost an NFL caliber OL (1st rounder)
-Lost both starting WR's
- Lost entire offensive staff, sans WR coach
- New system
- New OC
- New HC
- New conference

That's more than normal.

And they also finished with one less W.

(Last season was bad coaching, injuries, and mid-season OC change)

 

[Scooch]

Is this the point of the thread where I remind everyone that SU has won more than 6 regular season FBS games exactly once in the past SIXTEEN years?

We're arguing about just what degree of complete mediocrity we've achieved. Fun stuff.

 

[jekelish]

I'm going to be honest here: I think that Scott Shafer seems like a great dude, and I'm not sure what kind of coach he is. However, if he can get a commitment from Robert Washington, then I will be 100% against firing him no matter what our record is in 2015. If he can get Washington, and the snowball effect that should/will create for our 2016 recruiting class, then you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT FIRE HIM.

If we don't get a commit from Washington, well, then I'm a little more lenient on what happens if we crap the bed in 2015. But if we get Washington, and start putting together a monster class...you DO. NOT. FIRE. HIM. Washington loves Shafer and his staff. Don't do anything to screw up a potentially program altering class by changing the coaching staff. Please.

Please please please please please.