There is one primary problem with our offense

[GoSU96]

We're in the highest scoring era in college football, and we're the only BCS program that has a dome, and we have fans content with the product on offense.

Wow. Just, wow.

Seriously, who ever said "content"? The only point is understand that there might be some actual constraints. The pass game improved a great deal last year. They were more efficient moving the sticks. The issue, and it's been THE issue, the last two years is lack of explosive plays. And that is in both the run game and pass game.

There was a grand total of 8 runs of greater than 20 yds all year. There were 25 pass plays of greater than 25 yds. Two TD's were scored from outside of the opponents 40.

Lack of explosive plays is not just a design issue.

 

[Scooch]

Lack of explosive plays is not just a design issue.

This is true.

But then if we're going to lay the lack of big plays at the feet of talent, then we have to hold this staff accountable for not attracting good enough talent.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not laying that at their feet yet. Yet. Because they've only had 3 full recruiting classes. But I think that excuse has to disappear real soon. Once Marrone has 4 full classes in the fold it's really his "fault" at that point.

We should expect to see "real" improvement in 2012 though. 4th year of a system and the majority of the roster is his, and all.

 

[GoSU96]

your typical SU fan probably enjoys the NFL more than your typical SEC or Big 10 fan. everyone has a limit on how much football they can watch in a weekend, so SU fans are probably less aware of changes in the college football landscape because games involving syracuse make up a much greater percentage of the college games they watch.

you'd know better than me if this is at all correct

if your frame of reference is SU teams from the past and current NFL teams, 400 sounds like a lot

(I'm not saying GoSU96 is a typical fan, i'm sure he watches a ton of non-SU college games)

Eh, not really, but I'm well aware of changes in the game. My only argument has been that until know the most important point of reference is to recent SU's past, because it shows how far they have had to go to even be able to execute. I see posts and I'm not sure people realize how completely bottomed out the team was. This stuff about it was Robinson's game day coaching that was the difference and not a complete systemic collaspe is nuts.

SU never averaged over 300 yds per game in any season under Robinson. Over all his games the average was 271 yds total offense, there were nine games of less than 200 yds total offense.

By way of comparision this year only three teams has less than that, Kentucky, Kent St, and Florida Atlantic. And Robinson's teams did that for 4 years. Recovering from being that bad, for that long, takes time.

But as far as text goes and dismissing 400 yds as mediocre, that is unrealistic as well.

6 teams averaged over 500 yds, that's it. It's not the norm. Another 18 were between 450 and 500, and 20 more were between 400 and 450. If SU got to the 400 mark that would be a huge accomplishment, it still is a lot.

 

[Aweart23]

That's a fair response, I guess we just see the limits of the talent differently. I do think that picking up the pace would have improved our offense dramatically last season. The tempo we played at never put our offense in a position to run a play against a defense on its heels that is more likely to make a mistake, or blow a coverage. I have a hard time seeing how Nassib's inaccuracy on deep balls means we had to play so slow. I also tend to believe that we horribly under used Ant as a pass catching threat. Again, just using the one example, Nassib's bad on deep balls, but he can complete a good percentage of passes to Ant in the flat. My frustration comes because I think there are choices the staff could have made that would have helped the offense out a lot, and they made other choices. I don't have perfect knowledge of the situation though so I could very well be wrong, but I'm not certain of that because I also don't trust the staff fully, especially on that side of the ball, and well, the production on offense was so poor.

For some reason, either the staff struggles to the get the backups game ready, or the backups struggle to get themselves game ready. Its been going on for three seasons now. I think that really needs to change if we hope to see the offense move forward.

Serious question...do you really look at last year's offense and say we would have won more games by trying to get into track meets with our opponents? I just don't think we are there yet...

I think the limiting factor is/was the WR's last year...I look at that list and see injured guys, young guys not ready to play, and DB who had trouble catching the ball..

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Serious question...do you really look at last year's offense and say we would have won more games by trying to get into track meets with our opponents? I just don't think we are there yet...

Track meets, no. But do I look at last year's offense and say the offense would have performed better by playing at a quicker pace, or at least varying the pace more to include a more frequent up tempo attack, and therefore we would have been in better position to win more games?

Yes.

 

[Millhouse]

Track meets, no. But do I look at last year's offense and say the offense would have performed better by playing at a quicker pace, or at least varying the pace more to include a more frequent up tempo attack, and therefore we would have been in better position to win more games?

Yes.

even if increasing the tempo more often helped the offense yards/play, it might not be worth it to give the other offense more plays

simple example

they get 5 yards per play. we get 4. each get 70 plays. them 350 yards, us 280. 70 yards difference

we up the pace and get 4.1 yards per play. They stay at 5 yards per play. each now get 80 plays. them 400, us 328 now it's 72 yards difference.

in this case you could end up 48 yards better per game on offense and still be worse off by giving the other team 10 more plays

when the other offense is better (which is the case most of the time), giving them extra plays can swamp an improvement in your offensive performance

if you have a yards per play advantage, you amplify it by getting more plays. baylor, oregon, 90s buffalo bills. you don't want to amplify a disadvantage.

and before someone pounces on that to say "see our offense isn't as bad as you say", remember that other teams as bad as us wouldn't want to amplify that disadvantage either. our rankings in yards, plays, and yards per play are pretty close together

marrone has just enough confidence in nassib to let him play but not enough to think we ever have a per play advantage.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

even if increasing the tempo more often helped the offense yards/play, it might not be worth it to give the other offense more plays

I'll take my chances.

 

[bnoro]

even if increasing the tempo more often helped the offense yards/play, it might not be worth it to give the other offense more plays

simple example

they get 5 yards per play. we get 4. each get 70 plays. them 350 yards, us 280. 70 yards difference

we up the pace and get 4.1 yards per play. They stay at 5 yards per play. each now get 80 plays. them 400, us 328 now it's 72 yards difference.

in this case you could end up 48 yards better per game on offense and still be worse off by giving the other team 10 more plays

when the other offense is better (which is the case most of the time), giving them extra plays can swamp an improvement in your offensive performance

if you have a yards per play advantage, you amplify it by getting more plays. baylor, oregon, 90s buffalo bills. you don't want to amplify a disadvantage.

and before someone pounces on that to say "see our offense isn't as bad as you say", remember that other teams as bad as us wouldn't want to amplify that disadvantage either. our rankings in yards, plays, and yards per play are pretty close together

marrone has just enough confidence in nassib to let him play but not enough to think we ever have a per play advantage.

Exactly. Look at the Pats, Saints, and Packers this year. All went up tempo and compiled a ton of yards, and also gave up a ton of yards.

 

[Aweart23]

Track meets, no. But do I look at last year's offense and say the offense would have performed better by playing at a quicker pace, or at least varying the pace more to include a more frequent up tempo attack, and therefore we would have been in better position to win more games?

Yes.

Fair enough...which games?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Fair enough...which games?

All of them.

 

[kcsu]

I will tell you what. I dont give a what Doug and the Hack do this year as long as it is different than last. I dont care if we finish last in every catagory as long as it is different. Make Little Mac center eligible anything put Alexander at Rb bring back the bubble screen. Anything other than last years O. Just dont torture us with the BS that we had to put up with in 2011.