They’ve stopped playing for him. | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

They’ve stopped playing for him.

People speak of talent not being there. How big of a miss was Benny? Where should he be playing, the MAC?
 
Vooh said:
People speak of talent not being there. How big of a miss was Benny? Where should he be playing, the MAC?
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If I remember correctly he wasn't really recruited by the big guys right? It was like G-Town and Maryland or maybe Miami. But not like we beat off Duke for him.
 
Vooh said:
People speak of talent not being there. How big of a miss was Benny? Where should he be playing, the MAC?
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It was a huge miss. We don’t recruit multiple top 100 players per class anymore. So when the best ranked one we’ve landed in a while turns out to be a misfire it’s particularly damaging.

Back in the day we could afford for a top recruit to disappoint, because we had a couple more in the same class who could hit.
 
two3zone said:
I think they just stink. Benny and Bell are exactly what they’ve been when they got here. It’s poor scouting, recruiting, and coaching. These guys don’t belong in the ACC.
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Yet Bell continues to start despite not rebounding and shooting less that 13% from three
 
Dcuse said:
That’s the last thing that happens.
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Very true bc they no longer trust JB. When we go up against teams who have players who trust and respect their coach we will lose every time
 
Orangezoo said:
It's both. Evolution of the game and number of 3pt shots made and taken per game that outpaces tempo increase from the 30 second shot clock. This is also due to more shooters on the floor which then makes it much more difficult to cover in any zone defense.

Talent is less attracted to playing a zone defense but even more of the issue is that a zone D as the only defense makes it easier to prepare for.

More bigs are comfortable as a distributor in today's game on top of being a shooter. The days of two stiffs per lineup who don't want the ball are over. Thus the pass gets out faster and far less panicking.

Finally if you want a zone dominant team you need to sacrifice offense because you need a slow tempo team like the last team we had that was good in the zone back in 2018( 345 in tempo) that reduced possessions to help their cause but we still weren't good because of an anemic offense.

The analytics support all the changes in the game and reduced effectiveness of the zone that has been further amplified by less talent but is still a major issue. The most effective use in today's game is as a defense you can effectively switch into to confuse an offense.

It was a hell of a weapon for a long while- it's just not anymore.
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Don’t agree with any of this.
 
I genuinely do not see how Wildhack can bring Boeheim back next year. Boeheim has lost the fan base ALOT this year. You lose to Colgate back to back years. You miss the NCAA AND NIT a few years in a row. The team has been mediocre to bad the last 5+ years. The talent has not been there. We are not competing at the top of the conference and the things Boeheim have said this season have to put this over the top. Wildhack has to prove why he gets paid the big bucks and not only let Boeheim go this off season but he NEEDS to go outside the current staff for the head coach next season. I think Wildhack needs to make the move pretty quick after the season is over. Gives him the full pool coaching candidates to get after and hire before a bunch of other schools and gives the new coach every player available in the portal to recruit. As well as gives the kids currently on the team to portal early if they want too and find a new home. Needs to be a clean break from Boeheim at this point. Sad but it’s what we come too. If he retired in 2017 like he said he was going too this would have been a lot prettier and he hurt his legacy ALOT since then.
 
OrangePA said:
Don’t agree with any of this.
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So you don't agree with the analytics around the 3pt shot? It's factual just go look. I did a breakdown in a separate thread. What's the counterpoint then?

Just to help on this one- this year 330 out of 363 teams have a 3pt rate ( pct of shots from 3) of 30 pct or higher. In 2011-2012 it was 238/363 reams... when you move that up to 40pct it's 112 teams now to 37 teams in 2011-12.

Don't agree with more shooters on the floor? Well you don't get more attempts/makes across the board without having more capable shooters on the floor at once. That's simple math.

Don't agree with less stiffs on the floor? Look at the number of assisted baskets vs the zone over the past 5 years. Also look at shot charts. Ball is moving better out of the high post. That is both eye test and analytics... another tip - Xavier averages the most apg at 20. This year we have given up 20 or more in 16 games. Only 38 teams average more than 15 apg in cbb.. We've given up at least 15 in 25 of our games.

Don't agree with the 2018 reference? Just look at ken pom. The tempo figure is accurate. Higher rated defenses and offenses do skew as better due to lower number of possessions. It's why the figures have loved Wisconsins offense over the years and our defense. Again it's all there. We were bad on offense - numbers reflected as much- tradeoff.

Also one more nugget:

2 years back 3 man weave did a deep dive showing 7 teams total in cbb that play 75 pct or more zone per game. Also at that time ppp vs zone is .92 vs .85 vs mtm in that study. You can look it up as well as it's a heavy read.
 
Last edited:
two3zone said:
I think they just stink. Benny and Bell are exactly what they’ve been when they got here. It’s poor scouting, recruiting, and coaching. These guys don’t belong in the ACC.
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Exactly. Compare this team with our squad 10 years ago. It’s night and day that team had compared to this year and these passed handful of years. We can’t recruit and the zone is shot with some teams having 4 guys on the floor who can knock down 3’s. We are experiencing worst case scenario of a great HC not knowing when to hang it up and running the program into the ground as he grasps onto power. We need a total reset or we are going to get to the point that the current recruits were 5 or 6 years old the last time we were the program all of us remember. That’s not good.
 
We do have talent. Its the scheme.
Judah is top 3 pg in acc
Joe is solid at the 2
Jesse is top 5 ACC center
The rest of the players are talented.
Take these kids and have Pitino, the Virginia coach, the Gate coach and we are in the tournament.
The zone is the primary issue. Its outdated and stale. Nobody, not one team in the top 50 plays it as a primary D.
There wont be a single team to make either the NCAA or NIT that play zone as their primary D.
Its a joke, and Jim is a stubborn fool for sticking with it this year. Its all ego.
 
MSOrange said:
I see zoo has already responded, but I'd be curious to know what you don't agree with.
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OrangePA about the zone still being a “weapon” for us -

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Scooch said:
The talent has been subpar for years. We’d be mediocre playing any scheme defensively because the talent isn’t nearly good enough.
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5 top 125 players shouldn’t be viewed as “lacking talent” there are clearly other issues. Syracuses talent pool is not different to better than Clemson and yet they’re in two completely places
 
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