This board is losing it

[longislandcuse]

Where have they been proven liars?

Lang said nothing happened, now says he was molested. Theres that...

 

[kingottoiii]

JB was attacking the accusers and justifiably so. No need to say sorry, no need to be suspended. They have been proven liars on many counts both in the initial investigations and now in their current statements. Should JB say he is sorry for the slipshod portrayal of Bernie by ESPN too? You have the wrong people needing to apologize.

He is a representative of the university and has an obligation to act accordingly. I agree with JB's stance. My point is if Fine is found to be guilty, JB is done. There will be too much pressure to fire him. However if you take a preemptive strike and suspend him, then IMO there won't be pressure to fire him. Unless we are 110% sure nothing will come out of this, why risk having to fire JB? I don't like it and would think it to be BS, but that is the way things work. Would you want to see JB go out like that? I wouldn't. So why take the risk if you do not have to? This would be about protecting JB. He shouldn't need to apologize as IMO he did nothing wrong. But why be stubborn? Be the bigger person in the situation and move on.

 

[rrlbees]

Lang said nothing happened, now says he was molested. Theres that...

You haven't read the comments about people who are abused and not wanting to admit it for years have you? That doesn't "prove" he is a liar.

 

[Ghost]

Not according to you, you can't, because by alleging Bernie abused them these two are traitors and bad people.

This is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever been involved in, which is impressive since I once spent 30 minutes vehemently arguing the pros and cons of 5th Avenue bars versus Butterfingers.

I don't think I've ever even heard of a 5th Avenue bar.

 

[longislandcuse]

You haven't read the comments about people who are abused and not wanting to admit it for years have you? That doesn't "prove" he is a liar.

I have read that, and I know all about that, and maybe it doesnt mean hes a "liar" but it does mean he "lied".

 

[rrlbees]

I have read that, and I know all about that, and maybe it doesnt mean hes a "liar" but it does mean he "lied".

That's a play on words and a very bad one.

 

[longislandcuse]

That's a play on words and a very bad one.

So in this case anything Davis or Lang say or do doesnt matter because they have the fallback of being abused as the rationale. Basically thats where were going with this. Not trying to be a , im not one of those people proclaiming Bernies innocence, but theres no way in hell to ever prove his innocence (if he is) when we cant use the accusers words or actions in any context because they are rationalized away.

 

[rstone7727]

Bernie will spend the rest of his life searching for the office that Ray Donovan never found.

"Which office do I go to get my reputation back?

Isn't Wikipedia great? Donate if you can!

 

[ljmilman]

That's a play on words and a very bad one.

I don't think it's a play on words. It's the fact that (right or wrong), he either told the police that he was not molested when he really was, or he told them the truth initially and is lying now. At some point, he has said something that is the direct opposite of fact. That's the definition of lying, is it not?

 

[rrlbees]

So in this case anything Davis or Lang say or do doesnt matter because they have the fallback of being abused as the rationale. Basically thats where were going with this. Not trying to be a , im not one of those people proclaiming Bernies innocence, but theres no way in hell to ever prove his innocence (if he is) when we cant use the accusers words or actions in any context because they are rationalized away.

No, nobody is saying they should be allowed that fall back IF they are lying. But the fact is nobody knows if they are. The post I responded to, and yours, said that it was proven they had lied. Maybe they did but it is also possible, as said by others in the field, that they may not be and it is common for those abused as kids to be not admit it.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't think it's a play on words. It's the fact that (right or wrong), he either told the police that he was not molested when he really was, or he told them the truth initially and is lying now. At some point, he has said something that is the direct opposite of fact. That's the definition of lying, is it not?

It's a play on words. Lying to me is intentional, not caused by trauma. I hope he is lying.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

I don't think it's a play on words. It's the fact that (right or wrong), he either told the police that he was not molested when he really was, or he told them the truth initially and is lying now. At some point, he has said something that is the direct opposite of fact. That's the definition of lying, is it not?

Don't forget the other alleged corroborators, all of whom denied anything suspicious after being fingered by Bevis the first time, in the original investigations. There was a total of 4 as I recall. And his own mother saying he did not fly, and JB saying they have tried this before (extortion that is). So choose who you are going to believe, it is pretty easy for me. Honestly, you have to suspend reality to even crack the door open on any molestation here. Give me even a shred of credible evidence supporting it and then, and only then will I give the accusers any benefit of the doubt.

 

[ljmilman]

It's a play on words. Lying to me is intentional, not caused by trauma. I hope he is lying.

Fair enough. Definitions are the toughest part of coming to an understanding on anything.

 

[rrlbees]

Fair enough. Definitions are the toughest part of coming to an understanding on anything.

no problem. like i said in another thread, i know 2 people that were sexually abused as kids. took 1 until they were in their 40's to be able to come to grips with it, admit it, and face their abuser. i can understand why they might suppress it and not admit it. so while he may have been lying, it may be that he falls into the other category. my gut feel is that lang lied but i'm not going to say he did and certainly not going to say it has been proven he lied.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Where have they been proven liars?

Well first he said JB saw him in Bernie's room. JB said he hadn't. Then he himself said he lied to Bernie to get $5,000 from him. Does that qualify, you know a self admitted lie? Tim Welsh said he was Bernie's roommate and kids did not sleep there. He said 4 people would back him up in the first investigation and not a single one did. What do you call these if not proven lies? Do you need more?

 

[rrlbees]

Well first he said JB saw him in Bernie's room. JB said he hadn't. Then he himself said he lied to Bernie to get $5,000 from him. Does that qualify, you know a self admitted lie? Tim Welsh said he was Bernie's roommate and kids did sleep there. He said 4 people would back him up in the first investigation and not a single one did. What do you call these if not proven lies? Do you need more?

None of those are a proven lie. Not a one.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Do you also realize substance abusers lie, cheat, steal, murder. None of which is usually what one would call normal. Abused people do have a hard time coming to grips with what has happened to them. I get that. That does not mean these guys were actually abused because they have a propensity to lie, change their stories, give conflicting stories or whatever PC name you want to call it. Their substance abuse is just as likely to be the motivation here. But it seems there are a lot who want to give these abusers so much benefit of the doubt while discounting the none substance abusers responses to their allegations.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

None of those are a proven lie. Not a one.

What is your problem? I get you know abused people, so do I. The guy said he lied to Bernie. Did he or is that a lie? What is that?

 

[rrlbees]

What is your problem? I get you know abused people, so do I. The guy said he lied to Bernie. Did he or is that a lie? What is that?

I don't have a problem. You said he was a proven liar and nothing you showed proves he is a proven liar. Jb seeing him? You assume he is lying and JB is telling the truth. That isn't proof. Welsh saying he roomed with Bernie. So what? Did he say he was on the road for those games? If he said he was, who is to say who is lying? He said he had 4 people that would come forward. They didn't. Maybe they didn't want to or changed their minds or whatever. That isn't a lie. You know how many times even cops and prosecutors say they re going to have a witness come forth then they don't? Are they proven liars which discounts everything else they say? I don't recall what he said about the $5K so I'll grant you that one but it doesn't support saying they are "proven liars".

 

[Cadillac]

I don't think I've ever even heard of a 5th Avenue bar.

What.

It's like a Butterfinger... but it's nothing like one. The chocolate is better, the peanut butter crispier, it doesn't even get stuck between your teeth as bad.

People who prefer Butterfingers... they don't even know what it's like to be a diehard fan.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

I don't have a problem. You said he was a proven liar and nothing you showed proves he is a proven liar. Jb seeing him? You assume he is lying and JB is telling the truth. That isn't proof. Welsh saying he roomed with Bernie. So what? Did he say he was on the road for those games? If he said he was, who is to say who is lying? He said he had 4 people that would come forward. They didn't. Maybe they didn't want to or changed their minds or whatever. That isn't a lie. You know how many times even cops and prosecutors say they re going to have a witness come forth then they don't? Are they proven liars which discounts everything else they say? I don't recall what he said about the $5K so I'll grant you that one but it doesn't support saying they are "proven liars".

Bees, I see your points but you are too damn smart not to have seen the reports on his admissions of lying to Bernie to gain $5,000 in order to "get even". They also have 3 conflicting stories from only the two of them as to how they met Bernie in the first place. As for the 4 witnesses they were all questioned. It wasn't like they were waiting for them to come forward. My take is I have more faith in people that are not substance abusers with a lousy track record over the likes of these two. I've seen too much of their types during my lifetime.

 

[moqui]

None of those are a proven lie. Not a one.

proven to you, no; but that does not mean they are not proven liars to JB. He has access to crucial information that none of us do. I have been told that BSK's 2005 investigation for the university was exceptionally thorough. JB has read that report; it's like sitting on a pair of pocket aces.

 

[arbitragegls]

None of those are a proven lie. Not a one.

+1...it is a clearly emotional issue/case. Bees is simply stating a presumed fact that has not been refuted as yet. As each statement or fact is found not to be so...the closer we get to qualifying these facts/statements as lies...the legal system must not only prove guilt; it also must determine what is truthful and not. So far...nothing has been proven either way...so therefore there are sides to be taken. I am sure Bees like the rest of us, want these accusations and stories to be lies...that does not make them lies, however.

 

[NKR1978]

What.

It's like a Butterfinger... but it's nothing like one. The chocolate is better, the peanut butter crispier, it doesn't even get stuck between your teeth as bad.

People who prefer Butterfingers... they don't even know what it's like to be a diehard fan.

I thought you were both talking about a bar called butterfingers vs a general selection of bars on 5th ave, which I couldn't figure out what bars you could be talking about because I don't there is a stretch of 5th known for its bars.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

 

[SWC75]

This board may have lost it but not to Bernie...