This board is losing it

[orangefan13]

If it happens at Bernies house only then its only about Bernie. If it happens on the road then it reflects syracuse basketball. Thats my point.

People withhold the truth for a good reason all the time.

 

[jekelish]

They are traitors. They are after the basketball program for money not just bernie.

What about all the people that love Cuse basketball?

What about people who were sexually abused for YEARS (if true)?

You need to work on your priorities.

 

[orangefan13]

It has nothing to do with priorities.

It has to do with honoring syracuse basketball while going after Bernie if hes guilty.
You can do both at once. Even a caveman can do it.

 

[jekelish]

Not according to you, you can't, because by alleging Bernie abused them these two are traitors and bad people.

This is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever been involved in, which is impressive since I once spent 30 minutes vehemently arguing the pros and cons of 5th Avenue bars versus Butterfingers.

 

[orangefan13]

Thats fair its a criticism argument.

I just tend to see it from JB's standpoint. He said its about money.
That means they are after the most money and don't care what the consequences are. Not just justice.

They could have done it passively behind the scenes and just went after Bernies. That is a fact.

 

[rrlbees]

My guess, investigation in the public eye vs investigation in private. I imagine she felt that during the last investigation, Fine's presence wouldn't impact the investigation, and had anything arisen, the same actions (placing him on leave) would have been taken.

Because this investigation is taking place in the public sphere, she has to worry about appearance instead of whether his presence ACTUALLY impacts the investigation.

I don't know the answer to this question but did he get put on leave after ESPN made it public and not when this investigation started? I believe I read someplace that the investigation started a week or two before ESPN broke it. Why did he get placed on leave at that time? Was it only because it was now public?

 

[rrlbees]

It all kind of happened simultaneously Thursday night. I believe the SPD said they were looking into it and just about the same time he was placed on leave.

When I said that statement I meant in 2005.

 

[ljmilman]

I don't know the answer to this question but did he get put on leave after ESPN made it public and not when this investigation started? I believe I read someplace that the investigation started a week or two before ESPN broke it. Why did he get placed on leave at that time? Was it only because it was now public?

I don't have a clear timeline of when the investigation began, when ESPN reported, and when he was placed on leave. I'm not actually sure there is one at the moment, and without that, I won't speculate on reason.

 

[kuethstheman]

That'd be my guess. He could perform his duties as long as it wasn't widely known that he was being investigated. Once it became public, he couldn't really do major (public-facing) parts of his job.

I don't know the answer to this question but did he get put on leave after ESPN made it public and not when this investigation started? I believe I read someplace that the investigation started a week or two before ESPN broke it. Why did he get placed on leave at that time? Was it only because it was now public?

 

[Upstate]

Hey orangefan13, why don't you sit this one out and stop talking for a little while.

Yeah, maybe sit the next few plays out.

 

[orangefan13]

Ok I will sit out, but just reread my posts and ask yourself if these are good prosecutors and had to involve the university to? They did it for money.

I would be disgraced if we support them as good people. And support the program falling to midmajor status for Bernie doing something alone with a child on the road in a privacy room.

Im silent SUball

 

[Cadillac]

Not according to you, you can't, because by alleging Bernie abused them these two are traitors and bad people.

This is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever been involved in, which is impressive since I once spent 30 minutes vehemently arguing the pros and cons of 5th Avenue bars versus Butterfingers.

5th Ave 4 Life

 

[arbitragegls]

I'm in agreement with you goodroc. I think things have gone overboard almost to the point of Ped St fans. None of us do know all the details or what evidence their is. We started the free Bernie bandwagon once we saw the accusers in the interview. Yet, the way they behaved can be indicative of a number of things including drugs, alcohol, abuse by someone in the past or abuse by Bernie. But who knows? We don't but we immediately went for the jugular. As SU fans it hits closer to home and is tough to understand or believe what is going on, but we aren't acting much differently than ESPN. We are jumping to conclusions. I want this to all go away and I want Bernie to be shown not to be guilty of these accusations, but damn, I just don't know. The one thing I keep thinking about and trying to reconcile is that when this first broke, Cantor immediately put Bernie on leave. Did she do that because she did not want a PSU appearance? Or did she have enough evidence that it was warranted even if not proven completely true? She was comfortable with the 2005 SU investigation and findings by BSK. So what has changed in her mind to now suspend him other than Lang? Is she as guilty as everyone else at assuming? I don't think she is like that and believe she has enough concern to have done what she did. Won't mean Bernie is guilty but there is enough there from past investigations and new info to give people pause to re-look at it.

Lets hope these guys weren't abused as kids (that would be the biggest shame in all this) and that Bernie is found "innocent".

Well stated...there is one factor that has changed; allbeit not necessarily true. Lang has now refuted what he said previously...he denied knowing anything previously but now is saying he too was molested. Unfortunately, his initial comments and actions are not unlike many that have been molested...keep inside themselves, tell no one...embarrassment etc. Psychologists will tell you that this is typical...as such...it brings more impact to the case and makes some stop and relook at what was said/done previously. Cantor had no choice based on Lang coming forward. We all hope this is nothing but a scam...but we do not know this to be the fact...patience, as said before is needed and necessary.

 

[El Jefe Syr]

4. If you paid any attention at all to the allegations, and had any sense of nuance, then you would understand that Boeheim had to call them liars. Davis implicated Boeheim of complicity when he claimed that JB had seen Davis on Bernie's hotel bed on road trips. Davis and Lang were building a story of complicity, if not overtly then of negligence, against JB and the program. That had to be shot down forcefully. JB had to either call them out for the filthy *cking liars that they are, or else he had to explain why he turned a blind eye all those years.

moqui - this is a great perspective that I hadn't yet considered. Thanks!

 

[moqui]

If Fine is guilty, ESPN will continue to drag Bernie's name through the mud.

What if this investigation turns up no evidence (just like the previous 3 investigations did)?

Can ESPN "undrag" his name? You can't unring the bell.

Bernie will spend the rest of his life searching for the office that Ray Donovan never found.

 

[SWC75]

For me this comes down to syracuse basketaball more then the crime. These two are traitors to syracuse basketball. Sellout for money. I dispise their selfishness and traitorism to syracuse basketball.

This is one of those rare cases where bernie should be looked at and its sad the institution got included. If Bernie commits a crime alone then he commits it alone in front of nobody.

If anyone responds in disagreement I will just post this...
Then you don't know what its like to be a diehard fan of any sport. These two are not good people abused or not. Its like fighting for a house burglar who gets malested.

For some of us Syracuse basketball is like your house or houses you grew up and live in. Its all your history and everything you love.

This has nothing to do with being a "fan". If Bernie did this he's guilty of a crime. You can't be a fan of that. If he's innocent, than he's a victim of a crime- libel. The proper postion is to presume his innocence until proven guilty and to very much hope that he isn't guilty.

To save you time I'll post your response:
Then you don't know what its like to be a diehard fan of any sport. These two are not good people abused or not. Its like fighting for a house burglar who gets malested.

By the way, it's "molested".

 

[cto]

I'm in agreement with you goodroc. I think things have gone overboard almost to the point of Ped St fans. None of us do know all the details or what evidence their is. We started the free Bernie bandwagon once we saw the accusers in the interview. Yet, the way they behaved can be indicative of a number of things including drugs, alcohol, abuse by someone in the past or abuse by Bernie. But who knows? We don't but we immediately went for the jugular. As SU fans it hits closer to home and is tough to understand or believe what is going on, but we aren't acting much differently than ESPN. We are jumping to conclusions. I want this to all go away and I want Bernie to be shown not to be guilty of these accusations, but damn, I just don't know. The one thing I keep thinking about and trying to reconcile is that when this first broke, Cantor immediately put Bernie on leave. Did she do that because she did not want a PSU appearance? Or did she have enough evidence that it was warranted even if not proven completely true? She was comfortable with the 2005 SU investigation and findings by BSK. So what has changed in her mind to now suspend him other than Lang? Is she as guilty as everyone else at assuming? I don't think she is like that and believe she has enough concern to have done what she did. Won't mean Bernie is guilty but there is enough there from past investigations and new info to give people pause to re-look at it.

Lets hope these guys weren't abused as kids (that would be the biggest shame in all this) and that Bernie is found "innocent".

The second statement from SU last Thursday night (the one announcing the administrative leave) cited "new evidence" (Lang) and the fact that SYPD had announced an investigation. Given that there was a "witness" and a police investigation, I think she had little choice. The first statement talked about the previous investigation by SU... This link contains both statements. The first was issued a bit before 8:30; the second one around 9:30.

http://syr.edu/news/articles/2011/statement-11-17.html

 

[Rossco123]

Cantor’s move was lock step. It’s pretty much universal “best practice” and I don’t think anyone should read anything into it.

 

[cuserulesall]

For me this comes down to syracuse basketaball more then the crime. These two are traitors to syracuse basketball. Sellout for money. I dispise their selfishness and traitorism to syracuse basketball.

This is one of those rare cases where bernie should be looked at and its sad the institution got included. If Bernie commits a crime alone then he commits it alone in front of nobody.

If anyone responds in disagreement I will just post this...
Then you don't know what its like to be a diehard fan of any sport. These two are not good people abused or not. Its like fighting for a house burglar who gets malested.

For some of us Syracuse basketball is like your house or houses you grew up and live in. Its all your history and everything you love.

Spot on Orangefan13

 

[kingottoiii]

for one i am a huge syracuse fan -- i would be crushed if this turns out to be true-- i believe schwartz is and ass and his reporting is completely bias and is wrong but

1. that does not make me feel any better about this case
2. i have no idea if bernie is guilty-- very nervous he might be
3. the anger and energy towards espn is nuts at this point -- if he is proven innocent then different story
4. boeheim is an assclown for calling victims liars-- he put himself and program in harms way for no reason at all

Your number 3 directly contradicts with your opening statement. That is why people are angry.

Number 4 is again the media's fault. They are taking the liars soundbite out of context to make it seem like JB is attacking the accusers. That isn't fair to JB. Add in his statement right before that and you see his point and there is nothing wrong with what he said.

I think SU missed an opportunity to cover its ass with JB. They should have made JB explain what he said and then say that he is sorry if it was misinterpreted at all. Then suspend him for the 2 NYC games. That suspension would be totally unwarranted. But in the court of public opinion, people would forgive him and feel he was punished. So why do this? Because IF Fine is found to be guilty, there will be way too much heat to keep JB as HC. People will want blood. So the two game suspension would be an investment. If he is punished now, then no one will be wanting blood if Fine is guilty. If Fine is innocent, then you lost JB for two meaningless games. I think that is worth it if it means keeping JB and letting him go out on his own terms.

 

[DoctorBombay]

What happened? Penn State happened, thats what!

PSU had everyone on edge, from administrators to the media, to the fans.
After PSU, ESPN reached out to Davis to see if he could find someone to corroborate his accusations.
Viola, here came Lang & here we are today!
PSU waited almost 3 days after the the Sandusky arrest happened, before they issued a statement of any kind, probably due to shock.
Cantor reacted IMMEDIATELY, so that there would be NO DOUBTS that our situation was different. The admins have handled this thing in exemplary fashion, IMO, completely diffusing any feeding frenzy that would've occurred, had we stumbled.
The "new" evidence would have to be the corroboration of Lang.
No one was gonna sit this one out after ESPN went haywire: not the cops, the media, SU, the DA, JB, etc.
And don't surprised if, just like PSU, we don't hear from the NCAA at some point.

PSU changed the SOP for this type of crisis by showing us what NOT to do. I submit we wouldn't be here today, if not for the PSU situation.

 

[orange79]

Ok I will sit out, but just reread my posts and ask yourself if these are good prosecutors and had to involve the university to? They did it for money.

I would be disgraced if we support them as good people. And support the program falling to midmajor status for Bernie doing something alone with a child on the road in a privacy room.

Im silent SUball

This thread has not gone well for you. Good choice on the silent thing.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Your number 3 directly contradicts with your opening statement. That is why people are angry.

Number 4 is again the media's fault. They are taking the liars soundbite out of context to make it seem like JB is attacking the accusers. That isn't fair to JB. Add in his statement right before that and you see his point and there is nothing wrong with what he said.

I think SU missed an opportunity to cover its ass with JB. They should have made JB explain what he said and then say that he is sorry if it was misinterpreted at all. Then suspend him for the 2 NYC games. That suspension would be totally unwarranted. But in the court of public opinion, people would forgive him and feel he was punished. So why do this? Because IF Fine is found to be guilty, there will be way too much heat to keep JB as HC. People will want blood. So the two game suspension would be an investment. If he is punished now, then no one will be wanting blood if Fine is guilty. If Fine is innocent, then you lost JB for two meaningless games. I think that is worth it if it means keeping JB and letting him go out on his own terms.

JB was attacking the accusers and justifiably so. No need to say sorry, no need to be suspended. They have been proven liars on many counts both in the initial investigations and now in their current statements. Should JB say he is sorry for the slipshod portrayal of Bernie by ESPN too? You have the wrong people needing to apologize.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

for one i am a huge syracuse fan -- i would be crushed if this turns out to be true-- i believe schwartz is and ass and his reporting is completely bias and is wrong but

1. that does not make me feel any better about this case
2. i have no idea if bernie is guilty-- very nervous he might be
3. the anger and energy towards espn is nuts at this point -- if he is proven innocent then different story
4. boeheim is an assclown for calling victims liars-- he put himself and program in harms way for no reason at all

what specifically about the case could possibly make you nervous that he is guilty?

 

[rrlbees]

They have been proven liars on many counts both in the initial investigations and now in their current statements.

Where have they been proven liars?