This has to be better

[upperdeck]

the scheme last yr was for DeVito with Shrader as the change of pace. The plays and the practice for the fall and start of the yr were all around that.. Once the change was made the oline fell apart.

now we have had a yr to work the scheme to what he can do and on top of that the backups have worked on the same schemes.

add in some better play calling and plays more designed to his skill set, can we see a jump in production.. lets hope so

 

[baggerbob]

Many years of seeing run heavy QB’s who were poor throwers. Guys like Tebow Pat White Randel el Denard Robinson Eric Couch Tommy Frazier. Shrader doesn’t need to light it up. Just needs to be efficient. A sound and QB friendly pass scheme allows that.

And if ANAE and Beck didn't feel he could run the offense effectively they would have brought in someone who could.

 

[Millhouse]

Needs to get to 60% completions, 7.5 yds per attempt, and another 8 passes per game and the overall results should be much better

I'd take that in a heartbeat, basically saying average passing would be good enough, and I'd agree. I just don't think it's likely we'll get there this year

 

[Chip]

I'd take that in a heartbeat, basically saying average passing would be good enough, and I'd agree. I just don't think it's likely we'll get there this year

If we're talking about a healthy roster, he has more to work with this year. Better OC and dedicated QB coach. WRs should be an upgrade (he never really had Taj last year), and an experienced OL with Rhino (who he didn't get much of last year). If any OL go down...

I know, throws at guys' feet are throws at their feet. But with more time, maybe some more receiver separation, better play design, and a coach who might be able to fix a few mechanics here and there, he could look a lot better.

He didn't have a great pure passing day against VT last year. But he was just that college QB that annoys the **** out of you because they keep moving the chains. We were 4-4 on 4th downs in that game and had 550 total yards/41 points. We need more of that version.

 

[GoSU96]

I'd take that in a heartbeat, basically saying average passing would be good enough, and I'd agree. I just don't think it's likely we'll get there this year

In order to meet that target he needs to be better by 5.5% completion percentage, 1yd per attempt, and go from 24 attempts per game to 32.

I think that’s well within reach because there are multiple inputs that have significant upside; OL protection, Shrader‘s mechanics, scheme, tempo, coaching, and wide receiver group.

It wasn’t anyone thing holding production down, it was all of the above. It doesn’t require a big jump in Shrader by himself. Better protection gives guys more time to get open, a cleaner pocket leads to more accuracy, allows more players into the pattern instead of protection, less scrambles and more attempts. Increasing tempo leads to more plays. A higher completion percentage leads to less 0 value attempts, more time creates more down field opportunities, a more experienced and athletic Wr group should be more productive, a highly successful qb coach should lead to better play.

Both Babers and the UVA guys know how to put a good to excellent pass offense together. Looking back to 2015 for both coaches the last two years for SU are well outside the norm. All they need to do is have an average year for them.

 

[bigmike]

If we're talking about a healthy roster, he has more to work with this year. Better OC and dedicated QB coach. WRs should be an upgrade (he never really had Taj last year), and an experienced OL with Rhino (who he didn't get much of last year). If any OL go down...

I know, throws at guys' feet are throws at their feet. But with more time, maybe some more receiver separation, better play design, and a coach who might be able to fix a few mechanics here and there, he could look a lot better.

He didn't have a great pure passing day against VT last year. But he was just that college QB that annoys the **** out of you because they keep moving the chains. We were 4-4 on 4th downs in that game and had 550 total yards/41 points. We need more of that version.

I am officially sold on this vision.

 

[IthacaMatt]

3rd down last year was a nightmare

View attachment 219359

Not only couldn’t they convert but too high a percentage were obvious passing downs.

Need to stay ahead of the sticks and increase the number of third and manageable and need to do a better job of converting in every range, which means the passing game needs to be better.

Last year the offense was in run, run, pray, punt mode.

Well, first of all, they shouldn't be running so much this year on 3rd down and 4-6 yards. That's a tough ask, even with the runners we have. I sort of "get it" why they run on "hopeless" third-and-longs, but there simply have to be fewer of them.

 

[IthacaMatt]

completing just short passes helps the running game.. It makes the LBs more honest at the line of attack.

Yes, but mix in some over-the-middle throws to the space where a blitzing linebacker looks like he is vacating.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He's a gamer and a good runner and he not going to throw the ball well and it might be enough for six wins

I think he was banged up at the end of last year. He showed really good for a couple games. With better coaching and better play calling, I think he is going to surprise.

 

[Cuse12]

I think he was banged up at the end of last year. He showed really good for a couple games. With better coaching and better play calling, I think he is going to surprise.

The dude is a 4 star top 300 player in his class, with a bevy of offers from big time SEC schools. He definitely was a good QB, I just think he needed a coach that could put it all together for him. Beck is hugely responsible for me being high on Garrett this season. I think he is going to throw the ball well and be a good leader.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

More like 60 40 run. Wont be good if we have to pass a lot. Its not our strength. Running is.

I like your bread and butter P/R ratio running Tucker behind our OL. We stay on the field and our D (and their offense) stays off. But one passing stat sticks out - with 4 - 6 yards to go, we're more than twice as likely to convert throwing it.

 

[GoSU96]

Well, first of all, they shouldn't be running so much this year on 3rd down and 4-6 yards. That's a tough ask, even with the runners we have. I sort of "get it" why they run on "hopeless" third-and-longs, but there simply have to be fewer of them.

I’m going to guess a large amount of those weren’t called runs

 

[IthacaMatt]

I’m going to guess a large amount of those weren’t called runs

Good point. What was it, 50 sacks that one year?

 

[money3189]

I like your bread and butter P/R ratio running Tucker behind our OL. We stay on the field and our D (and their offense) stays off. But one passing stat sticks out - with 4 - 6 yards to go, we're more than twice as likely to convert throwing it.

The ratio has nothing to do with strategy to win. More to do with us running the ball well. It was the strength. Passing was not. You do what you do well. This season I hope we have a more efficient pass game. That would give us a higher percentage convertion rate on 3rd and 5.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Is he a pure passer? No.

Had he been playing WR for an entire season prior to coming to SU? Yes.

Was he put into positions to be successful last year in the passing game? Absolutely not.

Anae & Beck have taken much lower rated players and built offenses around them to be successful through the air and overall. They also have never had a Heisman caliber RB on offense.

As I said - give it a chance. If Shrader is 12-30 after game one and we get blown out? Go back to sleep. But I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Playing WR didn't change is mechanics, which were not stellar last year.

 

[SUFan44]

Playing WR didn't change is mechanics, which were not stellar last year.

Playing WR impacted the number of reps he had at the position, and the amount of attention he was paid at a position that demands fine tuning and repetition.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Playing WR impacted the number of reps he had at the position, and the amount of attention he was paid at a position that demands fine tuning and repetition.

Dude played QB his whole life, if he could throw, he could throw.

 

[sufandu]

Dude played QB his whole life, if he could throw, he could throw.

Nobody is saying he is going to magically become Aaron Rodgers, and we don't need him to be that. We need improvement, and there's no reason to think he can't be better this year than last year.

Fwiw, I remember reading someone on here say that either they saw him play in high school or watched a bunch of his high school film and his mechanics seemed to change after an injury.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Dude played QB his whole life, if he could throw, he could throw.

He was injured for the last month of the season.

 

[SUFan44]

Dude played QB his whole life, if he could throw, he could throw.

Shrader's inaccuracy last year is at the same level as your argument here.

He's not going to become leaps and bounds better. But after a year off of doing anything, you aren't going to be as sharp as if you were actively practicing doing said thing.

For the record, Josh Allen sucked with accuracy at Wyoming. He sucked with accuracy his first two years in the NFL. The last two years, he improved his accuracy to levels that are passable & beyond, and he's now a Top 5 QB.

I'm not expecting Shrader to go from 52% to 65%. If he goes to 58-60% through better play design and slight improvement, we are a tough team to stop.

 

[721Comstock]

Shrader's inaccuracy last year is at the same level as your argument here.

He's not going to become leaps and bounds better. But after a year off of doing anything, you aren't going to be as sharp as if you were actively practicing doing said thing.

For the record, Josh Allen sucked with accuracy at Wyoming. He sucked with accuracy his first two years in the NFL. The last two years, he improved his accuracy to levels that are passable & beyond, and he's now a Top 5 QB.

I'm not expecting Shrader to go from 52% to 65%. If he goes to 58-60% through better play design and slight improvement, we are a tough team to stop.

Shrader competed 57.5% as a true Frosh against an SEC schedule.

Him getting to 58-60% isn’t some crazy, impossible stretch.

His WR’s did him no favors last season -
at least 1-2 dropped passes every game, some would have been for scores.

Yes - he bounced and airmailed more than his share of passes too -
especially after he got injured vs VT.

Dungey was no marksman either, but you can design a passing game to allow an ok passing QB to be successful.
His 2018 season is proof of that.

 

[SUFan44]

Good offenses aren't bad on a down numbered 3
Bad offenses aren't good on a down numbered 3
Whatever downs we throw on are bad because our quarterback is not good at throwing
We aren't fixing that this year so it's another wake me up next year year

You still up?

 

[GoSU96]

You still up?

Ouch

Snide aside, I didn’t expect this. If the year ends between my target and production through two games this is more likely an 8 or 9 win team. If this is sustained through the whole year it’s much more than that.

 

[SUFan44]

Ouch

Snide aside, I didn’t expect this. If the year ends between my target and production through two games this is more likely an 8 or 9 win team. If this is sustained through the whole year it’s much more than that.

I’m with you.

There might be a level off at some point - probably is.

But if the play calling remains at a high level (no reason not to believe that), and easy-type throws are converted consistently (far less likely), we could be in for a special season the likes we haven’t seen in decades.

(I know I know, we went 10-3 4 years ago… but this team is better than that one IMO).

 

[Millhouse]

I’m with you.

There might be a level off at some point - probably is.

But if the play calling remains at a high level (no reason not to believe that), and easy-type throws are converted consistently (far less likely), we could be in for a special season the likes we haven’t seen in decades.

(I know I know, we went 10-3 4 years ago… but this team is better than that one IMO).

Qality of playcalling can't be measured so alot of chatter about it can be BS hindsight. but on the other hand, people who always dismiss playcalling as a factor want us to believe that it doesn't matter and that it's all of equal quality simply because it's not something easily measured. After the McF'it and Spence experience and then watching what we get with the most credible offensive assistants we have had in forever, it's hard to dismiss