This is way more difficult than most think

[longtimefan]

The list of coaches Coyle, or anyone, would feel could do a better job than what Shafer is doing now is a very, very long one.

It becomes considerably shorter when you consider:

a.) Competition from other, more desirable programs.
b.) Cost (although, we do have the resources now to pay a lot more than Shafer earns).

And on point b.)--if a change is made, please pay the new guy enough so that we are not still last in the ACC in this category.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I watched the game for a second time early this morning and came away with these thoughts. First of all LV has much better talent across the board than we do. It is obvious to see that they are in the top 5 teams in the entire ACC not just our division as they are loaded. Bobby hate him or not is a great coach. There is not doubt that he is also top 5 in the ACC so getting our arses handed to us didnt surprise me. Still if ED doesnt throw the six pick i think that we hang with these guys and possibly win. MO is huge with young kids and another score at that point was what we needed. Why the heck Lester called an out pattern with 2nd and 1 is beyond me. Get the first down and run clock doing so by running the ball. After that pick the team just went flat you could see it on the sideline shots and you could see it in the effort. They simply had the wind knocked out of them almost like oh sh... t here we go again.

As to our coaching i stand by what i have posted before. HCSS and his guys know how to coach D. They are simply out gunned. Next year as these kids grow up it will be a much different story. As to Lester i think it might be some of the same. He is playing with true frosh at key positions and we are thin. I know that i keep bitching about the Oline but they are pathetic. WR is weak as Bris is playing out of position and Ish has nobody to take the pressure off. Not sure why we dont give Custis a go as he can match up physically with anyone on any team. Head scratcher for sure.

Now onto the big picture. I believe that the decision to keep Shafer is beyond huge. Bees posted that we cant make a move just to make a move and he is 1000% correct. Change for change sake is never a good thing. It might feel good for a season but long term if Coyle doesnt get this right it is going to set up back 5 years.

Unless the team just gives up on HCSS i stand by my position that he should be given one more year as well as a public statement regarding an extension. The extension can be 1 year with a very low buyout say 250-500k max. In addition if im Coyle i dont place any demands on Shafer relative to replacing coaches. Let him make his own bed. If he wants to retain the band even though Adam and Reed in my opinion should be let go so be it. I know that everyone wants a public hanging and i agree that it is warranted. But again for the programs sake i believe that after next year we will be in much better strategic position to make that move. Kids are not going to transfer after their Soph year, we keep this class together, we dont eat a buyout and most importantly Coyle has time to truly plan and make a solid pick. There are just too many better jobs available this year and i dont want to make change for change sake.

I hope that the team pulls off a miracle and plays Clemson tough, as well as wins the last two as it will make everything easier for Coyle.

Go Orange!!

There will be multiple coaching vacancies every year. No reason to postpone the inevitable unless you just can't close on a good hire.

 

[Scooch]

No, it's not difficult.

Shafer's a good guy but a poor head coach. Coyle doesn't necessarily need to land his #1 choice for a replacement to be an upgrade.

The claim of "change for change's sake" makes no sense in this situation. That's what occurs when a previously successful head coach has a disappointing stretch and there is a coaching/managing change to "shake things up". Think Terry Francona being replaced by Bobby Valentine.

This would be a change because the coach is simply not good. That by definition is not "for change's sake" -- it's for a quantifiable reason. Not enough wins, poor player development, poor offensive production, etc.

Like IB says, some people are making this out to be like solving issues in the Middle East. It's football. Get a new coach and see how it goes. Give that guy a chance. If he doesn't, move on. There are no lives at stake here, it's football.

 

[gmoney44]

SU is past the point of no return and must move on from SS. They have lost the vast majority of the fan base. SS will lose recruits because the whole planet knows he's a dead man walking. He will burn every redshirt to save his arse and further dig our hole deeper.

 

[Crusty]

Do people realize how bad we have become?
We are last in the ACC in total defense and next to last in total offense. We are 117th nationally in total offense and 101st in total defense and likely to get worse!
We literally have no downside any more.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Do people realize how bad we have become?
We are last in the ACC in total defense and next to last in total offense. We are 117th nationally in total offense and 101st in total defense and likely to get worse!
We literally have no downside any more.

People see what the want to see, and ignore the numbers.

We are bad. You can bring in youth, etc, and that's fine, but the fact is we are really bad at football. It's time to try to find solutions.

Edit: I do think we have some solid pieces to build off of too.

 

[GoSU96]

Do people realize how bad we have become?
We are last in the ACC in total defense and next to last in total offense. We are 117th nationally in total offense and 101st in total defense and likely to get worse!
We literally have no downside any more.

That was predictable in September.

 

[Crusty]

That was predictable in September.

You must be smarter than the rest of us.

 

[GoSU96]

No, it's not difficult.

Shafer's a good guy but a poor head coach. Coyle doesn't necessarily need to land his #1 choice for a replacement to be an upgrade.

The claim of "change for change's sake" makes no sense in this situation. That's what occurs when a previously successful head coach has a disappointing stretch and there is a coaching/managing change to "shake things up". Think Terry Francona being replaced by Bobby Valentine.

This would be a change because the coach is simply not good. That by definition is not "for change's sake" -- it's for a quantifiable reason. Not enough wins, poor player development, poor offensive production, etc.

Like IB says, some people are making this out to be like solving issues in the Middle East. It's football. Get a new coach and see how it goes. Give that guy a chance. If he doesn't, move on. There are no lives at stake here, it's football.

Time to repeat myself, this team has had a top 20 offense and top 10 defense in the last six years, consistent t0p 5o defense. The recruiting environment is much better. There are some good young players on both sides of the ball.

If this could be an 8 win program two years after the end of Robinson, getting there from a better starting point should be achievable with the right hire in short order.

 

[two3zone]

Can't make a change now. That would be way too much of a disruption. Have to get replacement pieces lined up first. Hiring a coach without a plan got us here.

Disruption of what? Bad football?

 

[donniesyracuse]

There are more than sixty P5 schools. Each of those have two coordinators. Many, if not most, of those have head coaching aspirations.

There are more than 100 non-P5 schools, both FBS and FCS. Many, if not most, of their head coaches have higher aspirations.

The idea that Coyle wouldn't be able to find the right fit in any year, even after the better programs take their picks, is absurd.

 

[Scooch]

Time to repeat myself, this team has had a top 20 offense and top 10 defense in the last six years, consistent t0p 5o defense. The recruiting environment is much better. There are some good young players on both sides of the ball. If this could be an 8 win program two years after the end of Robinson, getting there from a better starting point should be achievable with the right hire in short order.

Yep. The people hyperventilating that we're in for a 5 year rebuild if we fire Shafer are insane. Good coaches turn a program around quickly. Marrone did. We have some good pieces to build with. Get the right guy and we're bowling in 2017 for sure, if not next year.

 

[Crusty]

Yep. The people hyperventilating that we're in for a 5 year rebuild if we fire Shafer are insane. Good coaches turn a program around quickly. Marrone did. We have some good pieces to build with. Get the right guy and we're bowling in 2017 for sure, if not next year.

Quite possible.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yep. The people hyperventilating that we're in for a 5 year rebuild if we fire Shafer are insane. Good coaches turn a program around quickly. Marrone did. We have some good pieces to build with. Get the right guy and we're bowling in 2017 for sure, if not next year.

Exactly. Relax.

 

[Finwad32]

Percentage wise across major college football, it is that difficult. Many more misses than hits.

I'm not making a case either way with this, just stating that more times than not its a failure.

 

[Scooch]

Percentage wise across major college football, it is that difficult. Many more misses than hits. I'm not making a case either way with this, just stating that more times than not its a failure.

SU is one of two P5 schools that haven't been in the top 25 at any point in the past 14 years. We have been uniquely bad. I'm confident we can find someone who can get us into the top 25 at least for a week. Literally almost everyone else has.

 

[Marsh01]

You lost me at "i watched the game for a second time"

 

[Finwad32]

SU is one of two P5 schools that haven't been in the top 25 at any point in the past 14 years. We have been uniquely bad. I'm confident we can find someone who can get us into the top 25 at least for a week. Literally almost everyone else has.

Confident like the last 3 times? My point was simply that stats say there's many more misses than hits.

 

[Scooch]

Confident like the last 3 times? My point was simply that stats say there's many more misses than hits.

So... What? We keep a bad coach because the next guy might also be bad? I don't understand what you're arguing.

 

[Finwad32]

So... What? We keep a bad coach because the next guy might also be bad? I don't understand what you're arguing.

Once again, I prefaced it with I'm not making a case either way.

 

[Ozcuse]

Once again, I prefaced it with I'm not making a case either way.

That's lame you need to choose!!! No politicking here, sir!

My thoughts are that when you know, you know.

Just like you don't try to rationalize staying with the batsheit crazy gf because you like her family.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Do people realize how bad we have become?
We are last in the ACC in total defense and next to last in total offense. We are 117th nationally in total offense and 101st in total defense and likely to get worse!
We literally have no downside any more.

We're not going to get better next season on offense, either. The staff has already shown that they can't put together a consistent offensive line, even with a group of experienced players that had performed well together in the past.

So we're going to give the same staff a younger line, and they're going to suddenly figure that out? Doubtful.

This program's best chance to improve is to have a better coaching staff. I really don't want to feel that way, but that's where the evidence is pointing.

 

[rrlbees]

What will be a strange dynamic is to see what people, who are dismissing others opinions as crazy, will say if Coyle does keep Shafer another year. I'm predicting those people will feel their opinions are also better than Coyles. Bank on it, some have already said it.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

So... What? We keep a bad coach because the next guy might also be bad? I don't understand what you're arguing.

People are making the vet and interview process as if Coyle needs to fly some stealth mission through the Middle East with top security clearance in hope that he gets the right hire. Guy has the time to do it right, see who is interested, who we can afford, etc. last time we had the time and went through it the right way we did fine.

 

[Willy75]

What will be a strange dynamic is to see what people, who are dismissing others opinions as crazy, will say if Coyle does keep Shafer another year. I'm predicting those people will feel their opinions are also better than Coyles. Bank on it, some have already said it.

Those people, and many, many more, will be voting with their feet and their money.