This isn't on Cooney

[CorduroyG]

So he makes a cut to the basket, he has the guy who recovered quick back on him, the guy in front of G on him, and the guy in the paint who moves on him. That would close any passing lane to Lydon and zero time to give it up somewhere else for a CLEANER look than Cooney actually got.

For the awful play call, for the awful positioning by the other players, I have no problem with the shot he took even with his bad shooting percentage. He attempts to dish with 3 guys on him and turns it over people would be complaining that he should have shot it when he's open.

I actually dont have a problem with the shot either considering the situation. As i said before cooneys game isnt driving and dishing so at least he got a shot off and didnt turn it over.

The only thing im saying is that once he got the ball jacking up a rushed 3 was by far the most predictable outcome. He never passes in those situations based on 4 years of watching him, he has tunnel vision, so even if malachi was wide open in the corner cooney wasnt passing. Or if the shot clock was in the normal spot he would have been calmer and pulled up from the foul line. I dont think so.

 

[orangenirvana]

there was no other play for him to make in that limited time, such as a pass to a teammate that wasn't open.

Are you saying there was no other play to make because Cooney is simply not capable of making that play? Or because there really was no other play to make?

Regardless, I disagree with both.

 

[AlaskaSU]

In a one on one situation the offensive player has the advantage on a drive. If he can get the defender to commit, he can alter his shot accordingly.

 

[RF2044]

Are you saying there was no other play to make because Cooney is simply not capable of making that play? Or because there really was no other play to make?

Regardless, I disagree with both.

It's amazing how dense you're being about this. I'm saying that the breakdown occurred on the inbounds play, not in what came afterwards.

I'm saying that time was running out, and it wasn't clear to the player how much time he had left due to the shot clock not being on. I'm also saying that Artis wasn't beaten the way some of you are claiming, and there was only a sliver of a lane to drive. Mike and to a lesser extent Mal can exploit a defender being out of position slightly and take it to the hole, Cooney not so much. You and others are exaggerating all of the other things that Cooney could have done with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

On that note, we just had a multi-page thread in recent weeks flipping out about Cooney's inability to drive. Now, some of you are whining because he didn't drive.

Lastly, just to be clear, I'm not saying as you suggest that "there was no other play to make." But the circumstances listed above caused him to shoot the ball when he got some daylight. He's not a driver, the lane wasn't nearly as open to drive as you want to pretend, and he had nobody open to pass to. What were his options in that situation other than shoot an open shot?

Not shoot? Pass the ball backwards to a trailer he couldn't see with time expiring? C'mon.

 

[KevMonstah]

The other thing that makes Cooney's shot look bad ...

Tyler Ennis (freshman) got the ball in about the same spot after an inbounds pass, and calmly dribbled not quite
as far as Cooney did in less time and took a solid looking shot. Based on the image above, Ennis got to the
NY Life ad on the floor; Cooney (5th year player) had more time, went further, and took a worse shot.

And you won't convince me that Ennis is much quicker than Cooney, if at all. Yes, the clock view was much
more helpful for Ennis, but Cooney ought to know where five seconds of dribbling will get him.

Kev

 

[RF2044]

This picture is pretty damming. I don't blame the kid for missing the shot but he could have gotten to the elbow easily and had an easier shot.
To pull up from 3 after this is the frustration pure and simple.

Doubtful. Artis recovered defensively and got out to challenge Cooney's three, missing by a hair. He sure as heck would have slid with Cooney on a drive, or been in position to challenge a pull up elbow jumper. Cooney probably would have gotten a pull up blocked by Artis if that's what he tried to do.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The other thing that makes Cooney's shot look bad ...

Tyler Ennis (freshman) got the ball in about the same spot after an inbounds pass, and calmly dribbled not quite
as far as Cooney did in less time and took a solid looking shot. Based on the image above, Ennis got to the
NY Life ad on the floor; Cooney (5th year player) had more time, went further, and took a worse shot.

And you won't convince me that Ennis is much quicker than Cooney, if at all. Yes, the clock view was much
more helpful for Ennis, but Cooney ought to know where five seconds of dribbling will get him.

Kev

The Ennis make was a miracle dude. If he didn't make that shot we would be 4-18 against Pitt.

He makes that shot one out of 40 in a game situation. The only person in the world who makes that at least 30 percent of the time is Steph Curry.

 

[OttoMets]

Doubtful. Artis recovered defensively and got out to challenge Cooney's three, missing by a hair. He sure as heck would have slid with Cooney on a drive, or been in position to challenge a pull up elbow jumper. Cooney probably would have gotten a pull up blocked by Artis if that's what he tried to do.

Randolph Childress he's not, but Cooney's crossover had Artis's momentum taking him laterally; one more dribble and stride forward and Cooney's past him.

 

[RF2044]

Randolph Childress he's not, but Cooney's crossover had Artis's momentum taking him laterally; one more dribble and stride forward and Cooney's past him.

Watch the replay again, Otto [the clip / loop is linked on the previous page]. In particular, focus on Artis after the alleged stumble and see how quickly he recovered and closed out. Cooney wasn't past him, and it is doubtful that he would have gotten past him on a drive because Artis was only a half step off of him. Richardson / Gbinije might have capitalized there, but Cooney generally doesn't have that capability. Either way, the defender wasn't shaken, and was in better position than what some are suggesting.

 

[AlaskaSU]

So he makes a cut to the basket, he has the guy who recovered quick back on him, the guy in front of G on him, and the guy in the paint who moves on him. That would close any passing lane to Lydon and zero time to give it up somewhere else for a CLEANER look than Cooney actually got.

For the awful play call, for the awful positioning by the other players, I have no problem with the shot he took even with his bad shooting percentage. He attempts to dish with 3 guys on him and turns it over people would be complaining that he should have shot it when he's open.

No one is ever going to complain that Cooney did not take a three.

 

[OttoMets]

Watch the replay again, Otto [the clip / loop is linked on the previous page]. In particular, focus on Artis after the alleged stumble and see how quickly he recovered and closed out. Cooney wasn't past him, and it is doubtful that he would have gotten past him on a drive because Artis was only a half step off of him. Richardson / Gbinije might have capitalized there, but Cooney generally doesn't have that capability. Either way, the defender wasn't shaken, and was in better position than what some are suggesting.

It's close, tough for me to tell without benefit of slowing it down. To take it just short of a Zapruder level, here's what I see and presume:

Cooney gets downcourt in good time with six dribbles under moderate pressure from Artis, who's shading him left.

It appears -- opinion based on his habits, not fact -- that he's thinking shot all the way from at least the fourth dribble, which he uses to set up the left-to-right crossover.

As he gets Artis leaning to the near side (defender's right, Cooney's left), Cooney takes four or five steps and one more dribble. Artis springs up surprisingly fast with help of his inside hand, but Cooney's last four steps actually take him away from the hoop (not incidentally, not setting himself up for good shooting mechanics). I believe that your average ballplayer (Cooney's included in this) could have used a single normal stride to get through Artis's eventual path in the time that Cooney took to make the last dribble with a few pitter-patter steps.

 

[orangenirvana]

It's amazing how dense you're being about this. I'm saying that the breakdown occurred on the inbounds play, not in what came afterwards.

I'm saying that time was running out, and it wasn't clear to the player how much time he had left due to the shot clock not being on. I'm also saying that Artis wasn't beaten the way some of you are claiming, and there was only a sliver of a lane to drive. Mike and to a lesser extent Mal can exploit a defender being out of position slightly and take it to the hole, Cooney not so much. You and others are exaggerating all of the other things that Cooney could have done with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

On that note, we just had a multi-page thread in recent weeks flipping out about Cooney's inability to drive. Now, some of you are whining because he didn't drive.

Lastly, just to be clear, I'm not saying as you suggest that "there was no other play to make." But the circumstances listed above caused him to shoot the ball when he got some daylight. He's not a driver, the lane wasn't nearly as open to drive as you want to pretend, and he had nobody open to pass to. What were his options in that situation other than shoot an open shot?

Not shoot? Pass the ball backwards to a trailer he couldn't see with time expiring? C'mon.

Fair enough. We'll never agree about this. I think he had more than enough ability to drive there, you don't. I will say though that it's not 20/20 hindsight if one screams "drive to the basket" while he/she is watching the play but that's just nitpicking. Peace.

 

[Ghost]

It's close, tough for me to tell without benefit of slowing it down. To take it just short of a Zapruder level, here's what I see and presume:

Cooney gets downcourt in good time with six dribbles under moderate pressure from Artis, who's shading him left.

It appears -- opinion based on his habits, not fact -- that he's thinking shot all the way from at least the fourth dribble, which he uses to set up the left-to-right crossover.

As he gets Artis leaning to the near side (defender's right, Cooney's left), Cooney takes four or five steps and one more dribble. Artis springs up surprisingly fast with help of his inside hand, but Cooney's last four steps actually take him away from the hoop (not incidentally, not setting himself up for good shooting mechanics). I believe that your average ballplayer (Cooney's included in this) could have used a single normal stride to get through Artis's eventual path in the time that Cooney took to make the last dribble with a few pitter-patter steps.

Obviously we're all nitpicking on certain things now, and I think that's part of RF's quite fair point, but I agree with this. The recovery is allowed to occur because there is no intent to exploit it. If his thought-process is to drive hard, I think at worst he has him on his hip, heading toward his strong hand for the finish. He'd be in a great position to ward off a block, or even dish if Roberson's guy overcommits.

I can buy the shot-clock confusion, even though it's maddening that someone wouldn't be more aware that 7 seconds is A LOT OF TIME (even with no clock on the court anywhere), but at the end of the day I'm not sure how you're not looking to head toward the rim there.

And, to his credit, Cooney admitted as much. Tough ending.

Que sera, sera...**** happens I guess.

 

[orange2win]

I've watched the last 3 secs half a dozen times. At the point of release by TC, Lydon and Roberson are right under the basket with one defender. No one else is close. In hindsight, a drive and dish would have been higher odds, even with Artis hanging on him. In fact a lob would have had a better chance, but TC is a 3 pt shooter - never was going to happen any other way.

Maybe JB's plea - to give us a break - will work. Hey, if the clock had been working, as it should have been, Cooney makes that shot. Right? That's the claim.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Can we keep this thread going until next October? Not even joking

 

[RF2044]

Fair enough. We'll never agree about this. I think he had more than enough ability to drive there, you don't. I will say though that it's not 20/20 hindsight if one screams "drive to the basket" while he/she is watching the play but that's just nitpicking. Peace.

Fair enough--we're both just frustrated.

 

[two3zone]

I've watched the last 3 secs half a dozen times. At the point of release by TC, Lydon and Roberson are right under the basket with one defender. No one else is close. In hindsight, a drive and dish would have been higher odds, even with Artis hanging on him. In fact a lob would have had a better chance, but TC is a 3 pt shooter - never was going to happen any other way.

Maybe JB's plea - to give us a break - will work. Hey, if the clock had been working, as it should have been, Cooney makes that shot. Right? That's the claim.

Not one person was in the paint when he went for his shot, and buddy standing on the ACC sign is going to take away any pass that goes in there. I don't know how he accomplishes anything you mentioned with the time given.

I get it, wrong guy shooting the wrong shot at the wrong time. But how is it on the guy that had zero other options but to shoot the ball?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I've watched the last 3 secs half a dozen times. At the point of release by TC, Lydon and Roberson are right under the basket with one defender. No one else is close. In hindsight, a drive and dish would have been higher odds, even with Artis hanging on him. In fact a lob would have had a better chance, but TC is a 3 pt shooter - never was going to happen any other way.

Maybe JB's plea - to give us a break - will work. Hey, if the clock had been working, as it should have been, Cooney makes that shot. Right? That's the claim.

I thought he should have kept going, but,it would have been a left handed shot at the rim.

 

[pulaski74]

You're right. They should have stolen it from him.

Brow, not given u a like on that but it did make me chuckle out loud.

 

[pulaski74]

Dish to who? There was not one player he could have passed it to without a Pitt player in the way except Richardson who was 5 feet behind him.

I thought I saw like a 3 on 1, w/ lydon and tr and coondog once the pitt guy was nearly on his back, happened fast though and you know everyone is going to see it differently.

 

[two3zone]

I thought I saw like a 3 on 1, w/ lydon and tr and coondog once the pitt guy was nearly on his back, happened fast though and you know everyone is going to see it differently.

What do you do in this spot with 2.5 left? Would love to see the player that is able to drive, dish, and allow his teammate to finish in 2.5.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What do you do in this spot with 2.5 left? Would love to see the player that is able to drive, dish, and allow his teammate to finish in 2.5.

Nobody open, Lydon COULD of cut to the block fast from half court. We had time for one pass, but with that positioning there isn't many options.

 

[NineOneSeven]

What do you do in this spot with 2.5 left? Would love to see the player that is able to drive, dish, and allow his teammate to finish in 2.5.

At that point he's already in a shooting motion so he's obviously not passing. You didn't stop the frame though when the opening was there. The second artis slipped, there was absolutely plenty of time to get a closer look. At this point, he already took a step back and collected to rise. That took probably close to a second. Whether or not something good happens if he gets closer, who knows.

 

[two3zone]

At that point he's already in a shooting motion so he's obviously not passing. You didn't stop the frame though when the opening was there. The second artis slipped, there was absolutely plenty of time to get a closer look. At this point, he already took a step back and collected to rise. That took probably close to a second. Whether or not something good happens if he gets closer, who knows.

Yeah, he's in the motion but he's still going to be stopped at the free throw line.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Yeah, he's in the motion but he's still going to be stopped at the free throw line.

And Lydon is wide open. I Just see this much differently than you. And 3 seconds is plenty of time.

Clock
Location played a role, rushing played a role (naturally), and the specific player played a role.