This recruiting class

[OttoinGrotto]

If that's the case, why did he hire an OC that was supposed to bring in a fast paced offense? Not saying it was a good hire, just that the goal of the hire was offense.

I just don't think he knew how to run a program. Initially the intent was there, just bad execution. Some guys are really good at one thing and can't translate that to another.

He had to hire somebody to run an offense.

What happened to the shrug emoji?

 

[sufandu]

He had to hire somebody to run an offense.

What happened to the shrug emoji?

Come on, man. You don't hire somebody that intends to run an up tempo offense if you don't want to score. Chalk it up to incompetence.

I don't know. I was looking for the shrug the other day too.

 

[Shaggy1]

This recruiting class?

 

[TheCusian]

Come on, man. You don't hire somebody that intends to run an up tempo offense if you don't want to score. Chalk it up to incompetence.

I don't know. I was looking for the shrug the other day too.

They went from big talk about tempo to one of the slowest most deliberate O's in the country really quickly. He wasn't wired that way and didn't want to put his D at a disadvantage.

 

[Rocco]

I was happy to see Shafer get retained after Marrone mainly due to his defensive style. When he hired his first OC, that mistake proved to be fatal from a HC perspective. McDonald was terrible and had literally no clue what he was doing. Furthermore, the guy completely offset the team mojo behind the scenes with his behavior.

I was sad to see Shafer go, but it was time to make a change. I'm glad we have Babers now and I hope we can keep him. We went from a defensive-heavy mindset to an offensive-heavy mindset. It's incredibly refreshing.

Recruiting will continue to improve as long as we can continue to showcase what this team can do.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Who's this Shaffer guy?

Sorry if I'm spelling it wrong.

 

[SoBristol]

I was happy to see Shafer get retained after Marrone mainly due to his defensive style. When he hired his first OC, that mistake proved to be fatal from a HC perspective. ...

I was sad to see Shafer go, but it was time to make a change. I'm glad we have Babers now ....

Recruiting will continue to improve as long as we can continue to showcase what this team can do.

Agree -- Shafer got himself in a hole with his OC decision, and then his recruiting had too many misses (prospects who did not qualify or left early).

Babers is definitely offensive-minded, but defense is a big key to this season. And that will depend on Babers' recruits (the 4 second year DEs, Williams at DT, Foster at S, plus grad transfers as key depth) starting to make a difference.

Need to showcase a bowl season, and recruiting will continue to build.

 

[PhatOrange]

Agree -- Shafer got himself in a hole with his OC decision, and then his recruiting had too many misses (prospects who did not qualify or left early).

Babers is definitely offensive-minded, but defense is a big key to this season. And that will depend on Babers' recruits (the 4 second year DEs, Williams at DT, Foster at S, plus grad transfers as key depth) starting to make a difference.

Need to showcase a bowl season, and recruiting will continue to build.

The defense imo is a year away.

 

[StopCoolio]

Shafer's problems were largely recruiting based to me, the top guys would be fine but the depth was brutal. Look at where these guys he was about to sign ended up, the recruits below would have been 10-15% of our roster this season. Compare that to what Dino is doing and it's night and day. Lutz has been recognized as our lowest rated recruit and I think in a normal Shafer class, he'd be the one that we were all most excited about and obviously our current style of play is a part of that.

2016 Recruits:
Monquavion Brinson(Georgia Southern)
Noel Brouse(UConn)
Cam DeGeorge: (UConn)
Brandon Ginnetti(Rhode Island)
Will Harper(Tulane)
DE Jamal Holloway(unqualified, UNLV)
Sadiq Palmer(UMass)
Dymelle Parker(Towson)
Taylor Riggins(UMass)
Lindsey Scott(LSU, transferred to Juco)
Darius Stubbs(Georgia State)

2017, Isaih McDuffie committed to BC.

Transfers:
Trey Dunkelberger(Western Illinois)
Anthony Giudice(Fordham)
Kenterius Womack
Corey Winfield(WVU, 5th year)
Jordan Fredericks(UMass)
Tyler Cross(Butler JUCO)
Chauncey Scissum(UNLV)
Alryk Perry(Valdosta State)
Kendall Moore(Texas)
Austin Wilson(Coastal Carolina)
Jon Burton

 

[SUforme]

Shafer's problems were largely recruiting based to me, the top guys would be fine but the depth was brutal. Look at where these guys he was about to sign ended up, the recruits below would have been 10-15% of our roster this season. Compare that to what Dino is doing and it's night and day. Lutz has been recognized as our lowest rated recruit and I think in a normal Shafer class, he'd be the one that we were all most excited about and obviously our current style of play is a part of that.

2016 Recruits:
Monquavion Brinson(Georgia Southern)
Noel Brouse(UConn)
Cam DeGeorge: (UConn)
Brandon Ginnetti(Rhode Island)
Will Harper(Tulane)
DE Jamal Holloway(unqualified, UNLV)
Sadiq Palmer(UMass)
Dymelle Parker(Towson)
Taylor Riggins(UMass)
Lindsey Scott(LSU, transferred to Juco)
Darius Stubbs(Georgia State)

2017, Isaih McDuffie committed to BC.

Transfers:
Trey Dunkelberger(Western Illinois)
Anthony Giudice(Fordham)
Kenterius Womack
Corey Winfield(WVU, 5th year)
Jordan Fredericks(UMass)
Tyler Cross(Butler JUCO)
Chauncey Scissum(UNLV)
Alryk Perry(Valdosta State)
Kendall Moore(Texas)
Austin Wilson(Coastal Carolina)
Jon Burton

Riggins is now at UB, but yeah recruiting was pretty dismal.

 

[SoBristol]

The defense imo is a year away.

Maybe. Lose the top 4 linebackers (including Valdez), and Martin & Butler from the secondary (not starters, but top reserves and likely to be contributors). Might lose Slayton to NFL.

My point is the 2017 defense will be significantly better than what we have seen in 2015 and 2016. Add better run blocking, and this team will surprise those who are forecasting 5 wins.

 

[bnoro]

Shafer's problems were largely recruiting based to me, the top guys would be fine but the depth was brutal. Look at where these guys he was about to sign ended up, the recruits below would have been 10-15% of our roster this season. Compare that to what Dino is doing and it's night and day. Lutz has been recognized as our lowest rated recruit and I think in a normal Shafer class, he'd be the one that we were all most excited about and obviously our current style of play is a part of that.

2016 Recruits:
Monquavion Brinson(Georgia Southern)
Noel Brouse(UConn)
Cam DeGeorge: (UConn)
Brandon Ginnetti(Rhode Island)
Will Harper(Tulane)
DE Jamal Holloway(unqualified, UNLV)
Sadiq Palmer(UMass)
Dymelle Parker(Towson)
Taylor Riggins(UMass)
Lindsey Scott(LSU, transferred to Juco)
Darius Stubbs(Georgia State)

2017, Isaih McDuffie committed to BC.

Transfers:
Trey Dunkelberger(Western Illinois)
Anthony Giudice(Fordham)
Kenterius Womack
Corey Winfield(WVU, 5th year)
Jordan Fredericks(UMass)
Tyler Cross(Butler JUCO)
Chauncey Scissum(UNLV)
Alryk Perry(Valdosta State)
Kendall Moore(Texas)
Austin Wilson(Coastal Carolina)
Jon Burton

Every day Dino is our coach makes me realize how poor of a hire Scott was as the head man. Great human being, great DC, terrible head coach.

 

[ForeverOrange]

Shafer's problems were largely recruiting based to me, the top guys would be fine but the depth was brutal. Look at where these guys he was about to sign ended up, the recruits below would have been 10-15% of our roster this season. Compare that to what Dino is doing and it's night and day. Lutz has been recognized as our lowest rated recruit and I think in a normal Shafer class, he'd be the one that we were all most excited about and obviously our current style of play is a part of that.

2016 Recruits:
Monquavion Brinson(Georgia Southern)
Noel Brouse(UConn)
Cam DeGeorge: (UConn)
Brandon Ginnetti(Rhode Island)
Will Harper(Tulane)
DE Jamal Holloway(unqualified, UNLV)
Sadiq Palmer(UMass)
Dymelle Parker(Towson)
Taylor Riggins(UMass)
Lindsey Scott(LSU, transferred to Juco)
Darius Stubbs(Georgia State)

2017, Isaih McDuffie committed to BC.

Transfers:
Trey Dunkelberger(Western Illinois)
Anthony Giudice(Fordham)
Kenterius Womack
Corey Winfield(WVU, 5th year)
Jordan Fredericks(UMass)
Tyler Cross(Butler JUCO)
Chauncey Scissum(UNLV)
Alryk Perry(Valdosta State)
Kendall Moore(Texas)
Austin Wilson(Coastal Carolina)
Jon Burton

Geez this really brings it home. I never zoomed in on where those recruits ended up. Really good work here. He has had some nice adds also, but in order for us to win consistently we can't have this number of recruits be misses.

 

[PhatOrange]

Shafer's problems were largely recruiting based to me, the top guys would be fine but the depth was brutal. Look at where these guys he was about to sign ended up, the recruits below would have been 10-15% of our roster this season. Compare that to what Dino is doing and it's night and day. Lutz has been recognized as our lowest rated recruit and I think in a normal Shafer class, he'd be the one that we were all most excited about and obviously our current style of play is a part of that.

2016 Recruits:
Monquavion Brinson(Georgia Southern)
Noel Brouse(UConn)
Cam DeGeorge: (UConn)
Brandon Ginnetti(Rhode Island)
Will Harper(Tulane)
DE Jamal Holloway(unqualified, UNLV)
Sadiq Palmer(UMass)
Dymelle Parker(Towson)
Taylor Riggins(UMass)
Lindsey Scott(LSU, transferred to Juco)
Darius Stubbs(Georgia State)

2017, Isaih McDuffie committed to BC.

Transfers:
Trey Dunkelberger(Western Illinois)
Anthony Giudice(Fordham)
Kenterius Womack
Corey Winfield(WVU, 5th year)
Jordan Fredericks(UMass)
Tyler Cross(Butler JUCO)
Chauncey Scissum(UNLV)
Alryk Perry(Valdosta State)
Kendall Moore(Texas)
Austin Wilson(Coastal Carolina)
Jon Burton

I agree with you 100% so I'm not taking away from your point. But FWIW;

Cam DeGeorge will start for UConn this season
Sadiq Palmer starts for UMASS (3 catches 53 yards in week 1)
Chauncey Scissum will start for UNLV
Kendall Moore is in the running to start at Texas (injury aided nonetheless)
Winfield was edged out in camp by a JUCO transfer and will start the season as the #2

 

[Frozen]

I wonder why Womack never landed anywhere. You'd think UAB would be in need of some bodies to restart their program.

 

[UnknownOrange]

I agree with you 100% so I'm not taking away from your point. But FWIW;

Cam DeGeorge will start for UConn this season
Sadiq Palmer starts for UMASS (3 catches 53 yards in week 1)
Chauncey Scissum will start for UNLV
Kendall Moore is in the running to start at Texas (injury aided nonetheless)
Winfield was edged out in camp by a JUCO transfer and will start the season as the #2

I think the point is more often than not the players ended up at inferior programs

 

[sufandu]

They went from big talk about tempo to one of the slowest most deliberate O's in the country really quickly. He wasn't wired that way and didn't want to put his D at a disadvantage.

I'd lose confidence in my offense and go into a defensive shell with Mc****it's incompetence too. Combine that with every qb on the team getting hurt (obvious sarcasm) and I don't blame him. He needed to hire a proven successful OC. When he didn't he was doomed.

 

[bigmike]

I'd lose confidence in my offense and go into a defensive shell with Mc****it's incompetence too. Combine that with every qb on the team getting hurt (obvious sarcasm) and I don't blame him. He needed to hire a proven successful OC. When he didn't he was doomed.

Nice tight post. Sums up three years quite succinctly.

 

[TheCusian]

I'd lose confidence in my offense and go into a defensive shell with Mc****it's incompetence too. Combine that with every qb on the team getting hurt (obvious sarcasm) and I don't blame him. He needed to hire a proven successful OC. When he didn't he was doomed.

Those things exasperated his tendencies - but he was a meat head D coach in approach to the game from the jump. That kind of coach *can* win - but not at a school that recruits at the level we do, IMO.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Those things exasperated his tendencies - but he was a meat head D coach in approach to the game from the jump. That kind of coach *can* win - but not at a school that recruits at the level we do, IMO.

It's hard to separate out for people that there was zero issue with the guy - we all loved Shafer.

It's just... his tendencies as a coach strongly suggested to me that he was never going to be a very successful head coach for us.

 

[sufandu]

Those things exasperated his tendencies - but he was a meat head D coach in approach to the game from the jump. That kind of coach *can* win - but not at a school that recruits at the level we do, IMO.

Hindsight is 20/20. If Mc****it had been an OC prodigy, I'm not so sure he goes into the shell. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[sufandu]

It's hard to separate out for people that there was zero issue with the guy - we all loved Shafer.

It's just... his tendencies as a coach strongly suggested to me that he was never going to be a very successful head coach for us.

I feel like this is directed at me. If not, sorry for the response. I'm not suggesting you or anyone else hated him or that he was going to get better as a head coach. I think he was in over his head and he made some boneheaded coaching hires. I've said this before concerning him, some people are really good at a certain job but may not be able to translate that to another. I just don't think a football coach goes into a game not wanting to score. Maybe he doesn't want to run an offense at break neck speed. Maybe he feels he needs to use clock to keep an opponents offense of the field. We can debate the merits of such strategies. But a coach doesn't go into a game not wanting his offense to score on every posssession. Whether he thinks that's possible or realistic is another matter and, again, is more about strategy.

 

[RMH44]

I feel like this is directed at me. If not, sorry for the response. I'm not suggesting you or anyone else hated him or that he was going to get better as a head coach. I think he was in over his head and he made some boneheaded coaching hires. I've said this before concerning him, some people are really good at a certain job but may not be able to translate that to another. I just don't think a football coach goes into a game not wanting to score. Maybe he doesn't want to run an offense at break neck speed. Maybe he feels he needs to use clock to keep an opponents offense of the field. We can debate the merits of such strategies. But a coach doesn't go into a game not wanting his offense to score on every posssession. Whether he thinks that's possible or realistic is another matter and, again, is more about strategy.

Completely agree and FHCSS said as much in his introductory presser.

When asked what style offense he was going to use SS said (paraphrasing) "I'm not sure yet but I want to go fast. As a DC uptempo teams are the most difficult to defend."

They started out fast but, unfortunately, McF***it wasn't up to the task. IMO, hiring that clown as OC was SS's undoing. It effected every part of the program including recruiting. He never recovered and the rest is history...and we now have Dino Babers running the show!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I feel like this is directed at me. If not, sorry for the response. I'm not suggesting you or anyone else hated him or that he was going to get better as a head coach. I think he was in over his head and he made some boneheaded coaching hires. I've said this before concerning him, some people are really good at a certain job but may not be able to translate that to another. I just don't think a football coach goes into a game not wanting to score. Maybe he doesn't want to run an offense at break neck speed. Maybe he feels he needs to use clock to keep an opponents offense of the field. We can debate the merits of such strategies. But a coach doesn't go into a game not wanting his offense to score on every posssession. Whether he thinks that's possible or realistic is another matter and, again, is more about strategy.

Wasn't directed at you, it was just a general sentiment. I do feel that there's a big portion of our fanbase that really responded to the identity Shafer tried to instill though, and unfortunately it's not the type of identity that has a high ceiling in the modern college football game.

 

[tep624]

Shafer's problems were largely recruiting based to me, the top guys would be fine but the depth was brutal. Look at where these guys he was about to sign ended up, the recruits below would have been 10-15% of our roster this season. Compare that to what Dino is doing and it's night and day. Lutz has been recognized as our lowest rated recruit and I think in a normal Shafer class, he'd be the one that we were all most excited about and obviously our current style of play is a part of that.

2016 Recruits:
Monquavion Brinson(Georgia Southern)
Noel Brouse(UConn)
Cam DeGeorge: (UConn)
Brandon Ginnetti(Rhode Island)
Will Harper(Tulane)
DE Jamal Holloway(unqualified, UNLV)
Sadiq Palmer(UMass)
Dymelle Parker(Towson)
Taylor Riggins(UMass)
Lindsey Scott(LSU, transferred to Juco)
Darius Stubbs(Georgia State)

2017, Isaih McDuffie committed to BC.

Transfers:
Trey Dunkelberger(Western Illinois)
Anthony Giudice(Fordham)
Kenterius Womack
Corey Winfield(WVU, 5th year)
Jordan Fredericks(UMass)
Tyler Cross(Butler JUCO)
Chauncey Scissum(UNLV)
Alryk Perry(Valdosta State)
Kendall Moore(Texas)
Austin Wilson(Coastal Carolina)
Jon Burton

His 2014 and 2015 classes had some quality talent in them. They weren't on the level that Baber's 2017 class looks like it's going to be, but guys like Dungey, Slayton, Franklin, Phillips, Cordy, Ishmael, Bennet, Thomas, Strickland, Chris Frederick, Custis, quite a bit of the OL 2 deep all came from those classes. Shafer's biggest problem with recruiting was lack of success on the field that led to a dismal 2016 class like you laid out above and a lack of quality in the "blue chip" recruits he managed to land. I mean, he had 4 guys that were graded at 4 stars by at least one recruiting site in 2014 including our first Rivals 250 kid ever, and from that we got 2 non-qualifiers, 1 who transferred after being medically DQ'ed and 1 that is still with the team and has had 1 catch in 3 years. The only 4 stars in '15 were Blair, who didn't qualify, and Strickland who is our starting tailback. He had no 4 star recruits in 2016 prior to getting fired. To get 1 multi-year starter out of 6 4 star recruits over 3 seasons is pretty awful.

The most refreshing change with Babers is that he's landing 4 stars that are highly coveted but who will also qualify and be here as freshman.