This situation is a nightmare for ND. | Syracusefan.com

This situation is a nightmare for ND.

N.Y. Orangeman

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Aside from the implications for SU, ND has a problem on their hands. Assuming Pitt, SU and at least one of WVU/UConn/Rutgers leaves, they now have lost their preferred home for BB and other sports. Does this force them into a conference or do they relegate themselves to the remnants of the B12 for non-fb sports? I wonder if the ACC or any other emerging superconference would take them as a partial member.
 

kyleslamb

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Aside from the implications for SU, ND has a problem on their hands. Assuming Pitt, SU and at least one of WVU/UConn/Rutgers leaves, they now have lost their preferred home for BB and other sports. Does this force them into a conference or do they relegate themselves to the remnants of the B12 for non-fb sports? I wonder if the ACC or any other emerging superconference would take them as a partial member.

It's not a nightmare. And now you see why there were rumors last week that Notre Dame and Texas had jointly filed for membership of the Big Ten...
 

N.Y. Orangeman

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It's not a nightmare. And now you see why there were rumors last week that Notre Dame and Texas had jointly filed for membership of the Big Ten...
If you accept the premise that football independence is important, then I'd submit it is a difficult situation they find themselves in unless the BE, ACC or some other conference is willing to cede to their demands.
 

kyleslamb

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If you accept the premise that football independence is important, then I'd submit it is a difficult situation they find themselves in unless the BE, ACC or some other conference is willing to cede to their demands.

I've no doubt it was important, but they've been realistic about it. Swarbrick said several times last summer that if a seismic shift happened, he wasn't naive enough to suggest they could maintain their independence. The worst that can come of this nightmare is that they have to land in the Big Ten and probably double their conference/media revenue. That's not a nightmare in my book, even if the loss of independence may be an inconvenience to their ideals.
 
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44USMC

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F' Notre Dame. I'm tired of SU playing second fiddle to their "Tradition".
 

sufan

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It's not a nightmare. And now you see why there were rumors last week that Notre Dame and Texas had jointly filed for membership of the Big Ten...

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Or perhaps explains the rumors UT and ND may alternatively end up in ACC. See also UT and ACC

With Pitt, SU, BC in the ACC, where does ND want to be and which conference is likely to allow partial membership in football and accomodate the LHN?
 

kyleslamb

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---------------------

Or perhaps explains the rumors UT and ND may alternatively end up in ACC. See also UT and ACC

With Pitt and SU in the ACC, where does ND want to be and which conference is likely to allow partial membership in football and accomodate the LHN?

Not seeing the forest for the trees on this...

What happens when the SEC and Big Ten decide to raid the ACC? Then Notre Dame and Texas will be right back where the started, except in a weaker ACC than before with fewer suitable replacements. This hybrid theory is a short-term fix and doesn't solve anything. That's why I bet my money on it not going through.

The ACC can throw out that $20 million exit fee and all that, but when push comes to shove, if the SEC and Big Ten come calling, there are some schools that will be listening intently.
 
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Otto Rocks

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ND will land on their feet no matter what. They can sit and ride out the storm until the end and still make out ok. That is just a fact plain and simple.
 
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44USMC

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With all these superconferences, I think the room for Indies is going the way of the mastodons.
 

CIL

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Not seeing the forest for the trees on this...

What happens when the SEC and Big Ten decide to raid the ACC? Then Notre Dame and Texas will be right back where the started, except in a weaker ACC than before with fewer suitable replacements. This hybrid theory is a short-term fix and doesn't solve anything. That's why I bet my money on it not going through.

The ACC can throw out that $20 million exit fee and all that, but when push comes to shove, if the SEC and Big Ten come calling, there are some schools that will be listening intently.

Depends on how much $$$ the renegotiated ACC contract is worth. It could be somewhere very close to SEC and B10 like when all is said and done.
 

Upstate

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It really forces ND's hand, and it's been a long time coming. Could see them depart the BE bball and go to B1G basketball. Would be crazy if they felt they needed security and joined the B1G in all sports. Texas and ND are in peculiar situations. Will be interesting to see how these teams with their own network deals shape out. Very difficult situation.
 

kyleslamb

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Depends on how much $$$ the renegotiated ACC contract is worth. It could be somewhere very close to SEC and B10 like when all is said and done.

The problem is that the ACC just finalized their deal with ESPN and it won't be renegotiated for several years. Second, what people have to understand is that the contracts are based on who are members of the conference. Notre Dame and Texas won't even be members in football under this scenario, and half of the games they play every year against ACC schools will belong to other networks.

What has to be taken into account is that non-conference games are not really valued as part of TV contracts. When networks negotiate with conference, they're paying for conference games with the right of first refusal for non-conference games. However, the non-conference games are paid as a separate, stand-alone event. So when you hear, for instance, Duke basketball being set up with someone in New Jersey as a "TV game," what that means is that ESPN separately negotiated that deal as a standalone payout separate of their broadcasting rights with the ACC. This is because Duke's non-conference games were not technically part of the television agreement.

So when the ACC tries to renegotiate its deal with ESPN, which again won't be for a while, it's not gaining much leverage by having Texas and Notre Dame being affiliate members. The truth is, whereas each fully-fledged member would create four new football games, as part of the contract itself, this situation would create zero. Because again, the non-conference games are paid separately when they happen. The reason for this is that networks, when they negotiate, cannot know what non-conference schedules are going to look like. So it pays for the value of conference members, then retains the rights of first refusal when the non-conference games come about. The value of non-conference games are often less than conference games, even when they match two big-name opponents.
 

CIL

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I agree Kyle, but I think the part you are overlooking is that the ACC has an opportunity to renegotiate contingent on league expansion, just as the PAC 12 does. If ACC goes 14 w/o UT and ND, they would have the chance to up that contract. Currently the ACC contract is worth roughly 13million per school. I would imagine a bump just with Cuse and Pitt.
 

Toga

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The problem is that the ACC just finalized their deal with ESPN and it won't be renegotiated for several years. Second, what people have to understand is that the contracts are based on who are members of the conference. Notre Dame and Texas won't even be members in football under this scenario, and half of the games they play every year against ACC schools will belong to other networks.

What has to be taken into account is that non-conference games are not really valued as part of TV contracts. When networks negotiate with conference, they're paying for conference games with the right of first refusal for non-conference games. However, the non-conference games are paid as a separate, stand-alone event. So when you hear, for instance, Duke basketball being set up with someone in New Jersey as a "TV game," what that means is that ESPN separately negotiated that deal as a standalone payout separate of their broadcasting rights with the ACC. This is because Duke's non-conference games were not technically part of the television agreement.

So when the ACC tries to renegotiate its deal with ESPN, which again won't be for a while, it's not gaining much leverage by having Texas and Notre Dame being affiliate members. The truth is, whereas each fully-fledged member would create four new football games, as part of the contract itself, this situation would create zero. Because again, the non-conference games are paid separately when they happen. The reason for this is that networks, when they negotiate, cannot know what non-conference schedules are going to look like. So it pays for the value of conference members, then retains the rights of first refusal when the non-conference games come about. The value of non-conference games are often less than conference games, even when they match two big-name opponents.

Kyle - I like your posts but you may want to read this post I made late night on renegotiating ...

The ACC/ESPN Would renegotiate the contract based on a different league composition. Here is the presser. Relevant comments appear on pages 4 and 8.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/acc/genrel/auto_pdf/10accespnteleconference.pdf
 

kyleslamb

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I agree Kyle, but I think the part you are overlooking is that the ACC has an opportunity to renegotiate contingent on league expansion, just as the PAC 12 does. If ACC goes 14 w/o UT and ND, they would have the chance to up that contract. Currently the ACC contract is worth roughly 13million per school. I would imagine a bump just with Cuse and Pitt.

The ACC will have a standard look-in, as the SEC has, but the Pac-12 actually negotiated a more firm clause that stipulates they are entitled to pro-rated rights fees increase with expansion. So for them it's automatic, which is beneficial as it knows it can expand and, at worst, keep the status quo. The ACC isn't guaranteed of getting compensated more, as ESPN isn't obligated to pay more if it doesn't feel it's worth doing so. I don't really know what value Pitt and Syracuse will have, though I imagine it will be worth slightly more. But I don't think it's going to get the ACC into Big Ten and SEC money nor will Texas and Notre Dame do that as affiliate members in regards to football.

As I said, once the SEC and Big Ten expand, the money will blow the ACC away in this scenario, especially if/when the ACC is raided. Then all the money that may have been renegotiated will be taken away as ESPN can do so in contraction. It's just not a prudent long-term solution, though I certainly understand the logic behind it.
 

kyleslamb

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Kyle - I like your posts but you may want to read this post I made late night on renegotiating ...

The ACC/ESPN Would renegotiate the contract based on a different league composition. Here is the presser. Relevant comments appear on pages 4 and 8.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/acc/genrel/auto_pdf/10accespnteleconference.pdf

As I said in my follow-up, they undoubtedly have a "look-in" to renegotiate. But again... ESPN is under no obligation to necessarily give much more money. All they have to do is negotiate in good faith. The ACC isn't guaranteed of results. From that standpoint, conferences are rarely going to get full market value in a renegotiation such as that because the networks have more leverage in how the clause is worded.

Also, it should be noted that in that interview, it states exactly my point about conference alignment: the contract only has to do with conference home games. So non-conference games are not part of the agreement, thus Texas-Notre Dame would not be part of a new negotiation as far as football is concerned.
 

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