Thought on recruiting/position of the program

[jec1521]

Just kinda thinking out loud here. Our lack of a "go-to" guy in recent years has made me think. It seems like this program is at a tipping point. Our recruiting has been great. We are good enough of a program to get most of the top caliber players that we want, but have missed out on "the big one" (Davis, Noel, Dakari?)

It seems like we are good enough to have top 10 classes consistently, but not good enough to get the elite players. That means we have to get good players and develop them into "go-to" guys. The problem there is they either never develop (KJo, Triche) or they leave early (Dion, Fab, MCW.)

I'm just having a hard time figuring out how we can get any better than we have been the past few seasons (which have been great, but our tournament success has been lacking, regardless of the injuries/suspensions)


:noidea:

 

[Frozen]

Triche is going to graduate as a top 25 or top 20 scorer in SU's history. There have been important games in which he maybe came up short, but I would not say he never developed. Also, he needs to find less slippery sneakers. But I have no complaints about his overall career.

 

[Marsh01]

Just kinda thinking out loud here. Our lack of a "go-to" guy in recent years has made me think. It seems like this program is at a tipping point. Our recruiting has been great. We are good enough of a program to get most of the top caliber players that we want, but have missed out on "the big one" (Davis, Noel, Dakari?)

It seems like we are good enough to have top 10 classes consistently, but not good enough to get the elite players. That means we have to get good players and develop them into "go-to" guys. The problem there is they either never develop (KJo, Triche) or they leave early (Dion, Fab, MCW.)

I'm just having a hard time figuring out how we can get any better than we have been the past few seasons (which have been great, but our tournament success has been lacking, regardless of the injuries/suspensions)


:noidea:

I thought Kris and Brandon were good 4 year players. To say they didnt develop is wrong. They never achieved superstar level but ask any coach in america and I guarantee they would love to have 2 guys like this.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Triche is going to graduate as a top 25 or top 20 scorer in SU's history. There have been important games in which he maybe came up short, but I would not say he never developed. Also, he needs to find less slippery sneakers. But I have no complaints about his overall career.

It would be hard not to be a top 25 scorer when you start 150 games. I mean..come on now...

 

[Frozen]

It would be hard not to be a top 25 scorer when you start 150 games. I mean..come on now...

He's started 150 games for a reason.

 

[Marsh01]

It would be hard not to be a top 25 scorer when you start 150 games. I mean..come on now...

Well seeing he was probably the 3rd scoring option the past 3 seasons (probably the 4th on the 09 team) I think thats pretty good.

 

[jec1521]

He's started 150 games for a reason.

Because JB likes his local guys?

Just kidding... kinda.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

He is going to end up right up near the top in minutes played in a Cuse uniform.

He's had a lot of burn! I figured he would be closer to the top 10 in scoring with all the minutes, tbh.

 

[newmexicuse]

Just kinda thinking out loud here. Our lack of a "go-to" guy in recent years has made me think. It seems like this program is at a tipping point. Our recruiting has been great. We are good enough of a program to get most of the top caliber players that we want, but have missed out on "the big one" (Davis, Noel, Dakari?)

It seems like we are good enough to have top 10 classes consistently, but not good enough to get the elite players. That means we have to get good players and develop them into "go-to" guys. The problem there is they either never develop (KJo, Triche) or they leave early (Dion, Fab, MCW.)

I'm just having a hard time figuring out how we can get any better than we have been the past few seasons (which have been great, but our tournament success has been lacking, regardless of the injuries/suspensions)


:noidea:

Disagree, as good as Davis and Noel are, I would not necessarily describe either one as a " go to" scorer. Dakarai ??????

In the meanwhile, we have had some legit go to guys in recent seasons - Jonny, Donte, Dion, Wes, Arinze, Rick, and to a lesser extent Andy and Scoop to name a few. Brandon & CJ on this year's team are "borderline" go tos, and MCW should be a go to playmaker who could score or create though some games his inexperience shows.

in terms of recruits in the pipeline one never knows, but I think any but Chino at least has the potential to blossum and be that type of player. BJ and McCullough both seem especially promising even if it takes them some time.

 

[CiceroCuse]

I would say the ultimate mix is having the four year guys that are not automatic NBA level talents with guys that are of one and done caliber. Last year Kentucky had some senior leadership and look what they did. This year they are young and they are struggling mightily.

I would argue that last year was a perfect mix of players and with Fab in the middle, we probably would have been at a minimum at the FF. This year we do not have vocal leaders and we do not have the "one and done"type player like Dion. MCW is presumably gone but thats based on potential and not as much as what he is doing this year.

We recruit players that fit into our system and I think they do a great job of that but sometimes there is a hole because of the unexpected. Im sure they planned on Fab staying this year, Rak developing faster and maybe DC2 being a little more ready.

All in all, you have to be happy about the direction of the recruiting and quality of our team. It was only a few years ago at this time of year we were wondering what we had to do to get into the tournament.

 

[Alsacs]

Dion Waiters wasn't a go-to guy? The dude last year could get to the rim whenever he wanted and the team was awesome. The problem the last 2 years has been we have had ZERO inside post-up game. As a result, we have relied on our jump shooting and dunks to get points. If this team had Rick Jackson or Arinze Onuaku on the roster it would be a 1 seed and a dangerous NC contender even without a postup player we are a top 15 team that with luck could make the Final Four. If I am JB I look for a big man coach and look for Rick Jackosn/Onuaku type recruits who are good college players and aren't 1 and done kids. Honestly, that is all this team needs as we have even though guards and forwards its just that 1 postup threat. Rick Jackson is Senior year averaged a double-double and his improvement was so startling it was so sad it took till his Senior year to click he was always a good player, but his Senior year or even 75% of it was exactly what SU needs to win a national title.

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

It may be a positional thing. Quality Tournament teams have senior leadership at the PG position, so maybe we shouldn't be recruiting our one-and-done stars there. 'Cuse also needs an experienced center to anchor the Zone, but that (and big men in general) take time to develop, so no one-and-dones there, please. Better to develop the Scoops of the world as your leader and build a solid base of experienced role players to complement a "star" at the SG, SF or PF position. I'd limit my recruiting of the one-year wonders to those positions for the best chance of success, IMHO.-VBOF

 

[SWC75]

it would help to have all our players for the entire season.

 

[orangecuse]

I thought Kris and Brandon were good 4 year players. To say they didnt develop is wrong. They never achieved superstar level but ask any coach in america and I guarantee they would love to have 2 guys like this.

No doubt! For me, I'd take a Triche and KJo everyday of the week and twice on Sundays before a two & done Dion, MCW type. Now, if we could ever land another Carmelo type, well, that's a 'horse of a different color.'

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I would even take an ND/Butler type center, who can shoot and pass. I am kind of tired of these projects who don't give us anything of use short of grabbing a few boards that fall into their hands and blocking a couple shots.

 

[ORRange]

Well I think we do have a "go-to" guy and it's CJ. He's shown he can go off but never gets enough touches. We have a PG who is a poor shooter and has trouble finishing. A shooting guard who is shooting poorly and is very bad from the 3 point line. A forward who either goes off or can't put it in the ocean, very inconsistent. We have a center who is as physically gifted as anyone but has the heart of my daughters bunny and a center who hustles but isn't talented. I love our team but unfortunately these are the facts as I see them. This team plays unreal defense, rebounds the ball very well, shoots FT's well and has a very consistent scoring threat in CJ Fair who doesn't get enough touches. We need to forcefeed CJ the same way we did to Rick Jackson as a senior and I'll happily live with the consequences. Our other options are too inconsistent. Just my three cents.

 

[SWC75]

Well I think we do have a "go-to" guy and it's CJ. He's shown he can go off but never gets enough touches. We have a PG who is a poor shooter and has trouble finishing. A shooting guard who is shooting poorly and is very bad from the 3 point line. A forward who either goes off or can't put it in the ocean, very inconsistent. We have a center who is as physically gifted as anyone but has the heart of my daughters bunny and a center who hustles but isn't talented. I love our team but unfortunately these are the facts as I see them. This team plays unreal defense, rebounds the ball very well, shoots FT's well and has a very consistent scoring threat in CJ Fair who doesn't get enough touches. We need to forcefeed CJ the same way we did to Rick Jackson as a senior and I'll happily live with the consequences. Our other options are too inconsistent. Just my three cents.

But the X factor is Brandon. When he shoots well, it opens things up for other guys. The thing is, "shooting well" doesn't have to eman shooting from the three point arc. it can mean 15 footers. I thought to myself during a timeout in that game that if I were Boeheim, (i'm not, as it happens), I'd tell Brandon to see how many two point shots he can make. Then the next time out I'd tell him he can take a three but only if it's wide open and 20 feet, not 25 feet.

 

[Jeremy L.]

I completely agree. Syracuse is more about developing the four year players (Fair, Rautins, AO, Rick) than landing the one-and-done guys. But look at 2009-2010, you had Andy, AO, Rick, Scoop just to name a few. Players that weren't big time players but turned out to be very key pieces to our success in recent years. I wish Syracuse could land the big time players, but Boeheim and Hop do a great job with developing players over time.

I think McCullough could be "the guy" when he arrives at Syracuse.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Once in an era a 'go-to guy' steps onto a campus and is 'it' immediately. Even Kentucky and Duke, who regularly recruit 2-5 McD players in a class, don't get their go to guy as a freshman. They have to develop. Heck, who is it for Kentucky this year? Isn't their whole team comprised of 5-star guys? Carmelo was an exception, and even then, GMac was Co-Go To.

 

[Quazzum69]

Kind of related to the complaining after the Georgetown game, Syracuse has it pretty good - not just in terms of recent success in regular season/tournament success/great recruiting, but overall as in the past 30 years. There have only been 8 teams with 3 or more championship game appearances since 1985 (Syracuse being one of them) so what more can you really ask for? After your truly elite programs (Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky and UConn (can't argue with 3 titles since '99)), Syracuse is right there. Does a loss to Georgetown in front of 35,000 people suck? Yes, of course. I am more upset that for, whatever reason, we can't keep our most important players eligible during the most important games.

We haven't gotten an Anthony Davis or a Kevin Durant lately, but how many teams have? When you do land one and you have other really good players with him, you'll win the whole thing as Syracuse did in 2003, when we had the top-rated SF in the country (I think Melo was the top SF) and some great support. I didn't think Triche and Joseph were ever expected to become "elite" players, either. Brandon has turned out much better than people ranked higher than him (was he even in the top-whatever for anything?). I would say both Kris and Brandon turned out to be great gets and the fact that they were major contributors on great teams are a testament to how well they developed.

 

[SBU72]

But the X factor is Brandon. When he shoots well, it opens things up for other guys. The thing is, "shooting well" doesn't have to eman shooting from the three point arc. it can mean 15 footers. I thought to myself during a timeout in that game that if I were Boeheim, (i'm not, as it happens), I'd tell Brandon to see how many two point shots he can make. Then the next time out I'd tell him he can take a three but only if it's wide open and 20 feet, not 25 feet.

Much the same could be said for even James and MCW. SU is very seldom going to out score a team from the 3 pt line. They can and have out scored teams with the mid range game.

 

[br801]

I thought Kris and Brandon were good 4 year players. To say they didnt develop is wrong. They never achieved superstar level but ask any coach in america and I guarantee they would love to have 2 guys like this.

I'll take the Triche or Joseph or Fair types over the more elite, high-maintenance types any time.