Thought the question by Waters about effort was sort of weird

[CousCuse]

I really don’t think the eye test is lying here, but everyone’s going to have their own opinion.

Bell was 2-7(0-5) and we were -15 the 13 minutes he played.

Taylor was 2-5 in 15 minutes and we were plus 2 during his time on the court. One guy is clearly a bigger negative than the other.

Taylor has one DNP and has played 60 less minutes than Bell. Bell has got a ton of rope. Heck I may prefer Copeland over him too.

Maybe you would prefer Bell hits the portal.

 

[shu 49]

My biggest thing with effort is either u coach it that way, or u allow to happen. Either way it’s the coaches fault. Run 2 practices and have Benny and Bell just rebound for the whole time in both of them. Keep doing it until they get the idea.

 

[Sherman20]

I don’t think it was an effort issue. We just sort of are who we are. We didn’t hit shots for a while and they did. Actually surprised Jim didn’t rip him up for asking, but I guess he’s fine with throwing Benny and Bell under the bus for their effort. I almost get the feeling he wants to play Bell and Benny limited minutes, hoping they get minimal rebounds; so he has something to talk about in the presser… wish Mike would have asked why no man to man when they were feasting on our zone.

Benny admitted in his post game interview that he lacked energy and effort and focus. It was in the PS article.

 

[Sherman20]

Wouldn’t know, they hardly get PT. Maybe there’s good reason. Dont know.

Was the same deal with Maliq, who may be our best forward, up until last week.

Maliq played 27 minutes last night and his playing time has been increasing. Posters on this board are just big mad and playing the blame game and want to point to JB for his in-game coaching and claiming it’s about the rotations and who he’s playing. Sorry, it’s not that hard to pinpoint our issues. We lack experienced talent. We have young talent, and I think some, maybe even most of these guys can develop into really good players. But as freshman they’re not ready to be key guys on a team that hopes to make the NCAA tournament. It’s as simple as that. I hope the team can rapidly improve in ACC play and we somehow become a bubble team, but we have a ways to go. Anyhow, we should blame JB but not because of his rotation decisions. You should be blaming him for the roster construction and not bringing in 1 or 2 big time transfers to play key roles. Relying on this many freshman in key roles was a bad decision.

 

[djcon57]

Can you tell me besides their one game each where Taylor and Q have been so productive?

"Productive" is a subjective term.

One could watch look at the box score, see Chris Bell scored 8 points or whatever, and call it a productive game.

I watch Chris Bell hit a couple open shots, brick a few others, watch a dozen rebounds, and be consistently late on defense and call it not productive.

 

[rrlbees]

"Productive" is a subjective term.

One could watch look at the box score, see Chris Bell scored 8 points or whatever, and call it a productive game.

I watch Chris Bell hit a couple open shots, brick a few others, watch a dozen rebounds, and be consistently late on defense and call it not productive.

I thought he was very productive vs Cornell. So I guess we should anoint him?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Maybe you would prefer Bell hits the portal.

No. I want JB to play the right lineup.

 

[MikeSU02]

"Productive" is a subjective term.

One could watch look at the box score, see Chris Bell scored 8 points or whatever, and call it a productive game.

I watch Chris Bell hit a couple open shots, brick a few others, watch a dozen rebounds, and be consistently late on defense and call it not productive.

Q and JT are higher than Bell in PER. And Rebound %, And Assist %. And Steal %. And Block %. And Win Shares per 40. This is a cursory glance, btw.

Now, that's not the only story, and Q has only played 80 minutes total... But productive does not equal counting stats. Which I think we can all agree on, especially after last year, shouldn't be the end all, be all. And really, let's be honest, don't tell an accurate story.

Or we can see that Bell is a two dribble streaky shooter that is basically limited at mostly everything else.

BTW, if anyone wants to have fun, go look at Rebound %s by forwards who got real minutes and look where Bell is landing.

 

[MikeSU02]

No. I want JB to play the right lineup.

No, you are a hater.

I'm sorry.

 

[djcon57]

I thought he was very productive vs Cornell. So I guess we should anoint him?

I think players should play when they play well.

Not into the "anoint" stuff like JB does where mins are guaranteed for some players.

When Bell plays well, he should play.

I don't believe he has done anything to deserve a starting role other than be anointed the starter.

After 13 games, it's time to give someone else a chance so we don't fall behind by 10+ consistently. Or start him and give a quicker hook. 11 mins to start the game yesterday was just...not good.

 

[Forloveoforange]

Of course, the fan always reacts to the good play or bad play after it happens. The coach has to play someone that he's not sure will play good or play bad. There is an advantage in the hind sight of the fan. And the fan's perception jumps around in a game-by-game way. Its about momentum, at best.

 

[rrlbees]

I think players should play when they play well.

Not into the "anoint" stuff like JB does where mins are guaranteed for some players.

When Bell plays well, he should play.

I don't believe he has done anything to deserve a starting role other than be anointed the starter.

After 13 games, it's time to give someone else a chance so we don't fall behind by 10+ consistently. Or start him and give a quicker hook. 11 mins to start the game yesterday was just...not good.

Don’t disagree with that at all. Between Williams, Bell, Q and Taylor whomever is playing well plays more. That’s what we did last night and have most times. That’s why Q played more than he had. Before that, Q had been a wreck pretty much.

 

[rrlbees]

Q and JT are higher than Bell in PER. And Rebound %, And Assist %. And Steal %. And Block %. And Win Shares per 40. This is a cursory glance, btw.

Now, that's not the only story, and Q has only played 80 minutes total... But productive does not equal counting stats. Which I think we can all agree on, especially after last year, shouldn't be the end all, be all. And really, let's be honest, don't tell an accurate story.

Or we can see that Bell is a two dribble streaky shooter that is basically limited at mostly everything else.

BTW, if anyone wants to have fun, go look at Rebound %s by forwards who got real minutes and look where Bell is landing.

And regardless of all those metrics Q had been an out of control player until last night. That’s why his assist to turnover rate is 1:3. And while Bell hasn’t shown any all around game, he’s in the to shoot and present a shooting threat. Q wouldn’t be.

 

[djcon57]

Don’t disagree with that at all. Between Williams, Bell, Q and Taylor whomever is playing well plays more. That’s what we did last night and have most times. That’s why Q played more than he had. Before that, Q had been a wreck pretty much.

Yeah Q will have his ups and down. I'm not as concerned with him when he gets the quick hook. He plays pretty emotionally right now for better or worse

 

[twinight]

My thoughts? Boeheim has to keep Bell and Benny in the starting rotation, but also he should bench them. And he should play Q more because he's better than them, except for the times where he's been the worst player on the court. Maliq should get more minutes because he's been playing well—he is getting more minutes?—okay, well then I change my mind, he should get less minutes to stay hungry. JB should have got two transfer forwards from the portal so we could have experience, and at the same time he needs to play the freshmen more as well so they can get experience. Petition the NCAA to let us play 6-8 players at once to make this happen. (Did Boeheim even ask this????) If he just had a practice where all Benny and Bell were allowed to do was rebound, then they'd rebound in the game. Doesn't he know this simple coaching fact? Also he shouldn't disparage them in public. These darling children are delicate like faberge eggs. If you call them out for lack of effort when they lack effort then they'll lack MORE effort later on because they'll be very sad. Instead, when a reporter asks why Syracuse lost, he should say, "Did we?." That will keep the team's self-esteem up. When a reporter asks why we're not rebounding, he should say, "Actually those stats are wrong. We had a bunch of rebounds. The stat guy is a liar."

Just simple stuff, guys. The old man has lost it.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I don’t think it was an effort issue. We just sort of are who we are. We didn’t hit shots for a while and they did. Actually surprised Jim didn’t rip him up for asking, but I guess he’s fine with throwing Benny and Bell under the bus for their effort. I almost get the feeling he wants to play Bell and Benny limited minutes, hoping they get minimal rebounds; so he has something to talk about in the presser… wish Mike would have asked why no man to man when they were feasting on our zone.

What. The kids have been gifted their time this year. Bell is the king of no effort. Benny’s is sporadic at best. I think it’s a matter of not really caring about, or being invested in, the outcome of the game. They also don’t seem to enjoy playing basketball. (Admittedly all observations are from my couch, with many instances of tuning out the games for long stretches because, well, we are a boring team with little star power or fire power.)

 

[VA2NY]

I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering how Bell made his way into the starting lineup initially and has maintained that spot. While he hasn't been awful, he hasn't exactly lit it up and brings absolutely nothing besides occasionally hitting a J. Defense, rebounding, effort, ball handling, etc were all in his profile coming in as major question marks. Having him start alongside another has no versatility makes little sense. He's the type of player that would get spot minutes, if that, as a freshmen in years past.

Copeland brings energy, some ball handling and playmaking, though I'm not sure the rest of his game is ready yet. I'm guessing he'd be a much better defender/rebounder in similar minutes. Brown is limited offensively in ability outside of 3 feet, but seems to bring everything else. Good rebounding, seems decent on D, has a nice feel for his strengths and how to score. Taylor probably has the most offensive upside, but he's kind of invisible in other aspects far too often out there, similar to Bell. I'd rather play Taylor 20+ minutes because I think our offense would be much more versatile.

The Benny/Bell combo can work in situations, but really, there are better players for the system and what we need right now...

 

[hoopsupstate]

I’m just going to say it. I don’t think Benny, Bell and Taylor are starters in the ACC. They are all limited and at best are roll players. None of them are complete basketball players and besides Benny’s athleticism, he has very limited basketball skills and no feel for the game. Brown can rebound, pass a little, but has no ability to score outside of two feet. Copeland is the most intriguing of the bunch. This class is not the savior for this program and we have nobody coming in next year. If Jesse and Joe leave, which is highly likely, and nobody else is brought in, SU will finish near the bottom of the ACC next year. SU needs a superstar to play with this group in order to be successful. I don‘t see anyone knocking on the door to come to SU next year. They lack shooters, rebounders and ball handlers. Other than that, they are all set. I have issues with Mintz, but the kid plays hard. He doesn’t lack effort and he has a level of confidence that is severely lacking in the rest of this group.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Most fanbases are like Sybil, having a love/hate relationship w/ players based on what-have-you-done-for-me-lately analysis.
Bell had his best game yet vs Cornell and maybe for the first time this year, I was like "ok- now I get it". Benny has steadily improved but it's been slow, but not yet slow enough to change course, IMO.
As others have said our issues stem from YOUNG, INEXPERIENCED talent. Talent that can gut out wins vs Cornell, etc,., but is not yet consistent enough to beat ACC opponents.
The big mistake was in not pounding the portal, like Pitt did, and finding yourself a good experienced player, or players, to help transform your team. Everyone else is doing it now, and we need to get a clue. The old model of just waiting while your young players "develop" is "day late-dollar short" thinking. JMHO

 

[Newhouser]

I am not one who bows at the altar of JB. This year I have to give him credit - he seems more willing to pull anyone who is not playing the right way. The 3 J's have been yanked, as have the forward and Frosh contingent. That has not been the case some years, but this year he seems to be more willing to sit anyone. Whether he makes that assessment fast enough - that is a subjective thing that makes great fodder for fan forums.

 

[Fly Rodder]

One of the things about basketball is that individual games are rarely indicative of the ability and talent as a whole. I go by the bigger sample size. Every player is going to have good and bad games. Season long metrics are more important.

Jalen Carey had a great game against UConn, followed by a pretty good game against Oregon and then never ever approached those numbers again. Right now, Bell and Benny need to start producing to justify the starting spots and continued run. Whether JT and Q are the answers remains to be seen, but such is the nature of freshmen and projects. There'll be growing pains. Although I haven't seen much from Maliq that makes me think he can't handle more run. He's a good one.

 

[swish7]

I am not one who bows at the altar of JB. This year I have to give him credit - he seems more willing to pull anyone who is not playing the right way. The 3 J's have been yanked, as have the forward and Frosh contingent. That has not been the case some years, but this year he seems to be more willing to sit anyone. Whether he makes that assessment fast enough - that is a subjective thing that makes great fodder for fan forums.

JB has done a great job this year mixing and experimenting with rotations. Impressive for an older dude to see such flexibility.

Let's hope some of these rotations start to work, and he starts the ones that work.

Bennie is a classic JB doghouse player, that per some miracle, is not actually in the doghouse.

 

[MikeSU02]

And regardless of all those metrics Q had been an out of control player until last night. That’s why his assist to turnover rate is 1:3. And while Bell hasn’t shown any all around game, he’s in the to shoot and present a shooting threat. Q wouldn’t be.

I don't disagree Q has been up and down and def not always in control. I think JB would agree with you and why JT has like 190 mins vs Qs 80.

I am way down on Bell. Way down. I think he's a net negative when he's not drilling shots.

I've never seen a wing that can't dribble and doesn't look to pass and doesn't want to rebound.

Not saying he can't get better, but it's crazy to me that he starts.

Again, where I disagree, I think we mistake "guys that shoot" for "shooting threats". Teams know exactly what these guys can and can't do.

We'll see. I think JB is losing patience with both Benny and Bell with the runway he's giving them to start, hence his comments (I know I'm going offroad from what you're talking about).

 

[MikeSU02]

I’m just going to say it. I don’t think Benny, Bell and Taylor are starters in the ACC. They are all limited and at best are roll players. None of them are complete basketball players and besides Benny’s athleticism, he has very limited basketball skills and no feel for the game. Brown can rebound, pass a little, but has no ability to score outside of two feet. Copeland is the most intriguing of the bunch. This class is not the savior for this program and we have nobody coming in next year. If Jesse and Joe leave, which is highly likely, and nobody else is brought in, SU will finish near the bottom of the ACC next year. SU needs a superstar to play with this group in order to be successful. I don‘t see anyone knocking on the door to come to SU next year. They lack shooters, rebounders and ball handlers. Other than that, they are all set. I have issues with Mintz, but the kid plays hard. He doesn’t lack effort and he has a level of confidence that is severely lacking in the rest of this group.

I mean, let's be real, in our best years, maybe Mintz and Jesse are starting, right?

I think JT will be good down the line and I think he can contribute, just not consistently now. I am down huge on Bell. I think he's severely limited.

I think Brown should start.

I think JT and Q should continue to get burn.

Benny is what he is. I'm hoping he keeps getting incrementally better. I just wish he wasn't starting.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't disagree Q has been up and down and def not always in control. I think JB would agree with you and why JT has like 190 mins vs Qs 80.

I am way down on Bell. Way down. I think he's a net negative when he's not drilling shots.

I've never seen a wing that can't dribble and doesn't look to pass and doesn't want to rebound.

Not saying he can't get better, but it's crazy to me that he starts.

Again, where I disagree, I think we mistake "guys that shoot" for "shooting threats". Teams know exactly what these guys can and can't do.

We'll see. I think JB is losing patience with both Benny and Bell with the runway he's giving them to start, hence his comments (I know I'm going offroad from what you're talking about).

I’m hopeful we will eventually see the Cornell Bell. And I agree JB is losing some patience with him and Benny. The only thing that worries me about Brown, which has nothing to do with Browns abilities and intangibles is that he’s a post player right now. As is Jessie. And Judah is a player that likes to penetrate into the lane. I worry that there will be so much traffic inside it will minimize their effectiveness offensively.