thoughts...

[SaintTristan]

the loss sucked, but i am not sure it changes anything.

1. It you think that marone is the guy then this is just a blip. we lost an away game in league play to a better coach. its going to happen sometimes. not the end of the world.

2. if you dont think marone is the guy, then a win or a loss here and there isnt going to change that.

3. I will say this, though - this loss nearly guarantees that we have yet another losing record against BCS schools, which is not acceptable (regular season). By the end of this yr marone is going to be way way below .500 against BCS schools after three seasons, and his hardest schedule will by far be next yr's. Which means that after 4 years he'll be way way way below .500 against BCS schools.

4. Also frustrating to KSU so improved over last yr. seems like a totally different team than the one we played.

 

[orangenirvana]

I'll bite - you know for certain that Charlie Strong is a better coach because...

 

[SaintTristan]

I'll bite - you know for certain that Charlie Strong is a better coach because...

because i am not an idiot.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

the loss sucked, but i am not sure it changes anything.

1. It you think that marone is the guy then this is just a blip. we lost an away game in league play to a better coach. its going to happen sometimes. not the end of the world.

2. if you dont think marone is the guy, then a win or a loss here and there isnt going to change that.

3. I will say this, though - this loss nearly guarantees that we have yet another losing record against BCS schools, which is not acceptable (regular season). By the end of this yr marone is going to be way way below .500 against BCS schools after three seasons, and his hardest schedule will by far be next yr's. Which means that after 4 years he'll be way way way below .500 against BCS schools.

4. Also frustrating to KSU so improved over last yr. seems like a totally different team than the one we played.

Can't disagree with any of these observations.

 

[Cusefan95]

I'll bite - you know for certain that Charlie Strong is a better coach because...

Because he doesn't think Marrone is the guy.

There are way too many people that want us to be Notre Dame - hire a guy, proclaim him a hero, get disappointed in his results after 3-4 years, fire him, bring in the next savior...Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Because its worked out so well for Notre Dame.

 

[Alsacs]

the loss sucked, but i am not sure it changes anything.

1. It you think that marone is the guy then this is just a blip. we lost an away game in league play to a better coach. its going to happen sometimes. not the end of the world.

2. if you dont think marone is the guy, then a win or a loss here and there isnt going to change that.

3. I will say this, though - this loss nearly guarantees that we have yet another losing record against BCS schools, which is not acceptable (regular season). By the end of this yr marone is going to be way way below .500 against BCS schools after three seasons, and his hardest schedule will by far be next yr's. Which means that after 4 years he'll be way way way below .500 against BCS schools.

4. Also frustrating to KSU so improved over last yr. seems like a totally different team than the one we played.

Marrone is a good coach and I am not putting him on the hotseat till after his first recruiting class graduates and we haven't improved. We have improved leaps and bounds in game preparation and game planning, Marrone has struggled a couple of times in game management, but that will improve with more games. He needs to keep getting wins and just getting into bowl games to get recruiting back on track. The only way this team will become constantly better is a major talent infusion. This team has improved because of Marrone, but it has reached its sealing without more talent in the system. I will trust Marrone to get better talent with more wins and more bowl games. If we go bowling this year and next and with the move to the ACC more recruits will feel comfortable committing to Syracuse and then it will be on Marrone.
My expectations for when Marrone came in where the following.
Year 1 drastic improvement- 4-8 with a lot of improvement he passed that
Year 2 Bowl game- 8-5 Pinstripe Bowl win he passed that
Year 3 Bowl game again- 5-3 with 4 games left he is on track for that with 1 more win
Year 4- top 3 finish in the Big East
Year 5- Winning the Big East.
Marrone is doing the job on the field he needs to do the job on the recruiting trail. There are maybe 5 recruiting battles we have won the last 3 years, We need to get more Brandon Reddish,Cam Lynch, Jeremiah Kobena's in the program.

 

[Bayside44]

If we win the Big East in year 5 I am going to be seriously mad.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Wow, just...wow. :crazy: :bang: :bat:

 

[Louie&Bouie]

Because he doesn't think Marrone is the guy.

There are way too many people that want us to be Notre Dame - hire a guy, proclaim him a hero, get disappointed in his results after 3-4 years, fire him, bring in the next savior...Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Because its worked out so well for Notre Dame.

Exactly. Thank God we got rid of that McPherson clown before he screwed up the program...

 

[JoeCollege]

I guess KSU/Snyder fans can refer to points one and two above.

 

[DocFlanders]

I'll bite - you know for certain that Charlie Strong is a better coach because...

One thing that is not debatable is that he is a kick ass recruiter, and that alone wins him some games he otherwise wouldnt

 

[Cusefan95]

This is the thing - Strong is a whopping one game over .500 in his career. We're really going to declare it obvious he's a better coach than Marrone? That's now the standard of intellegence for the board? No sheet his recruiting is better; he took over a program that had won conference championships in the recent past and hadn't spent a decade getting run into a ditch.

Since we want to compare ourselves to KSU as well, let's look at Snyder's first go-around at Kansas State starting in 1989. He started 1-10, 5-6, 7-4 (against a schedule that made ours from last year look like murderer's row...), 5-6, then 9-2-1 and an 11 year run of bowl games. We're in year three and people are already giving up on Marrone. It was obvious that GRob wasn't going to cut it after year three (honestly well before that), but to have reached any conclusions on Marrone is way premature. Let's get to year five before we go crazy...

 

[kingottoiii]

This is the thing - Strong is a whopping one game over .500 in his career. We're really going to declare it obvious he's a better coach than Marrone? That's now the standard of intellegence for the board? No sheet his recruiting is better; he took over a program that had won conference championships in the recent past and hadn't spent a decade getting run into a ditch.

Strong took over a program with no talent. They were on par with us. He has added a lot of talent and his D has been bad ass for three years now. On O they now have some talent but they are all young guys. He just let his OC go. If they get a good OC, they might be the favorite to win the BE next year. To go from arguably the worst BE team when you take over to BE favorite is impressive.

 

[Cusefan95]

KingOtto - 7-6, 4-4.

If you're going to judge Marrone on the results he's produced, judge Strong the same way. Don't give your interpretation of what you think he might possible do in the future if things break right and he hires the right guy...

7-6, 4-4.

That's so much better than Marrone that he's CLEARLY the better coach? Really?

 

[Cuseman78]

Strong took over a program with no talent. They were on par with us. He has added a lot of talent and his D has been bad ass for three years now. On O they now have some talent but they are all young guys. He just let his OC go. If they get a good OC, they might be the favorite to win the BE next year. To go from arguably the worst BE team when you take over to BE favorite is impressive.

And what were we when Marrone took over? Were we not the worst team in the league 4 years running? Doug Marrone is a very good football coach. As is Charlie Strong. We will see who proves out in the long run.

 

[orangecuse]

Still way too early to say if Marrone is the guy to get this historic program to where it should be. And, that's consistently being a top 20-25 team and maybe an once in a decade top 5-10. If can certainly be done if, indeed, the right coach is in place. One thing is for certain, you won't find another guy with more passion and heart to get his alma mater to a where he wants it to be...DM clearly bleeds orange.

Just look what Beamer did for the VPI program. I remember not too many years ago when Bruce Smith was the most dominating defensive lineman in the NFL and when his school was listed (VPI), most people had no idea where that school was. Now it's a household name and a powerhouse football program. What about Boise State? How does that school ever become a program it is today? A decade or so ago, it wasn't even on the map...relatively speaking of course. Look what Brad Stevens has done with Butler. My general point, get the right coach and SU will be very successful once again in football, regardless of our lack of state-of-the-art facilities. It certainly isn't an easy feat, but it's attainable.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Certainly Marrone is a much better coach that Grob that goes without saying... His recruiting is questionable and his ability to put an exciting brand of football on the field will hurt his recruiting as well.. To me Marrone's top end in the ACC is 8-4.. good but not great.. Sure it's a hell of a lot better than where we have been but I am hoping for better...

I don't think strong is that much of a better coach but he is ligh years ahead as a recruiter.. I feel I am right but I am willing to wait 2 more years before I completely declare this as gospel.. Recruiting is part of the game as a college head coach. If he didn't think he could recruit here he should not have taken the job..

You can't turn a blind eye because Marrone is a company man.. It's a huge mistake happens all the time. If Syracuse isn't committed to building a legit top 15 program that can compete year in year out then Marrone is your man, he is affordable and stable. Syracuse needs to improve facilities regardless but they need to spend if they want results regardless of who the coach is... Marrone is good but not great and he also needs to find a new OC even if he needs to take a pay cut

 

[kingottoiii]

KingOtto - 7-6, 4-4.

If you're going to judge Marrone on the results he's produced, judge Strong the same way. Don't give your interpretation of what you think he might possible do in the future if things break right and he hires the right guy...

7-6, 4-4.

That's so much better than Marrone that he's CLEARLY the better coach? Really?

I think UL had very little talent when Strong took over. UL had two combined BE Ws the two years prior to him taking over. They were really our equals. Also Strong is in year 2, while Marrone is in year three. So Marrone should be expected to be ahead record wise. The last two years both Strong and Marrone are 5-5 in the BE and Strong has won twice head to head. And the win last year was on the road with a backup QB, who hadn't played any real minutes all year, and the team's leading rusher out for the game. Also Strong is playing a ton of young players already. He has HIS guys that HE recruited making an impact now in year 2. Marrone's guys aren't beating out GRob's guys. So I think the future is greater for UL.

I am not saying that Marrone is a bad HC. I am saying I really like Strong a lot. That being said I rather have my HC be Marrone, as Strong is gone first chance he gets. UNC will be open this year. Ole Miss likely will as well. UK (boy would that hurt UL), Tenn, UGA, SC, and NC St may all open up within the next few years.

 

[orange79]

If Syracuse isn't committed to building a legit top 15 program that can compete year in year out then Marrone is your man

Oh Lord

 

[Cusefan95]

Just look what Beamer did for the VPI program. I remember not too many years ago when Bruce Smith was the most dominating defensive lineman in the NFL and when his school was listed (VPI), most people had no idea where that school was. Now it's a household name and a powerhouse football program. What about Boise State? How does that school ever become a program it is today? A decade or so ago, it wasn't even on the map...relatively speaking of course. Look what Brad Stevens has done with Butler. My general point, get the right coach and SU will be very successful once again in football, regardless of our lack of state-of-the-art facilities. It certainly isn't an easy feat, but it's attainable.

People that think you can win in football without top end facilities just aren't paying attention. No, it's not attainable. Period. Doesn't matter if we hire the second coming of Vince Lombardi if we don't continue to upgrade facilities there is a zero percent chance Syracuse football will be successful to the degree any of us on this board desire or expect.

Virginia Tech took off when they started pouring money into facilities (and allowing felons to play for them, but I digress...). Oklahoma State is a top 5 program right now, at one time they had Jimmy Johnson as a head coach and he couldn't do that. Their guy now must be the bestest coach ever, doesn't have anything to do with T. Boone Pickens throwing boatloads of cash at the program, right? Oregon being a top program now has nothing at all to do with Nike money, right?

Our facilities, while they've been upgraded, are still WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY behind most of the other BCS programs. If the idea is that the right coach can utilize our chicken sheet facilities and get chicken salad results, prepare to be disappointed in every single coach from now until the end of time.

 

[RF2044]

If Syracuse isn't committed to building a legit top 15 program that can compete year in year out then Marrone is your man

Oy ing vey.

IthacaBarrel, you know that I am one of your biggest fans on this forum, bar none--but you have officially lost your god-damned mind.

 

[SaintTristan]

I don't think strong is that much of a better coach but he is ligh years ahead as a recruiter

I dont see the distinction. Recruiting is a big part of being a college coach - it is coaching at the college level.

Thus far marrone has been a horrible recruiter compared to strong. Just horrible. We are still getting excited about beating out MAC schools for kids.
if a college coach cant recruit then he cant coach at this level. its that simple. you cant build a great program with diamonds in the rough. you need to get some studs too. And marone seems incapable of doing that.

its really scary to read some of posters on this board - they admit marrone is not a very good recruiter yet, but thats ok he can coach! except his game management isnt that good either. So basically he is very good at blowing whistles and setting up rules re: facial hair and curfew? yay. I feel like we can pay a lot less for an assistant coach who can do these things and then go out and find a head coach who can recruit and manage games?

 

[DoctorBombay]

I dont see the distinction. Recruiting is a big part of being a college coach - it is coaching at the college level.

Thus far marrone has been a horrible recruiter compared to strong. Just horrible. We are still getting excited about beating out MAC schools for kids.
if a college coach cant recruit then he cant coach at this level. its that simple. you cant build a great program with diamonds in the rough. you need to get some studs too. And marone seems incapable of doing that.

its really scary to read some of posters on this board - they admit marrone is not a very good recruiter yet, but thats ok he can coach! except his game management isnt that good either. So basically he is very good at blowing whistles and setting up rules re: facial hair and curfew? yay. I feel like we can pay a lot less for an assistant coach who can do these things and then go out and find a head coach who can recruit and manage games?

 

[jvbj01]

I dont see the distinction. Recruiting is a big part of being a college coach - it is coaching at the college level.

Thus far marrone has been a horrible recruiter compared to strong. Just horrible. We are still getting excited about beating out MAC schools for kids.
if a college coach cant recruit then he cant coach at this level. its that simple. you cant build a great program with diamonds in the rough. you need to get some studs too. And marone seems incapable of doing that.

its really scary to read some of posters on this board - they admit marrone is not a very good recruiter yet, but thats ok he can coach! except his game management isnt that good either. So basically he is very good at blowing whistles and setting up rules re: facial hair and curfew? yay. I feel like we can pay a lot less for an assistant coach who can do these things and then go out and find a head coach who can recruit and manage games?

Who is the solution??

 

[BoomStickO]

Strong took over a program with no talent. They were on par with us. He has added a lot of talent and his D has been bad ass for three years now. On O they now have some talent but they are all young guys. He just let his OC go. If they get a good OC, they might be the favorite to win the BE next year. To go from arguably the worst BE team when you take over to BE favorite is impressive.

Wrong. KThorp performed just fine as a recruiter but sucked as a coach. LVille had talent in place like Cinci.