Tim Duncan or Larry Bird?

[CusefanATL]

My top 10
1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabaar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Tim Duncan
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Lebron James

knocked out of the top 10 was Jerry West who is 11
followed by
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
13. Shaq.
14. Moses Malone

tough to see Lebron at 10.

I'd have to go magic at 2.

 

[Knicks411]

2007 is fair. And I would actually give Steve Nash (who won back-to-back MVP awards in the middle of the decade) the nod over McGrady.

Hmm, I was thinking more 2003/2004 for T-Mac, Nash won the MVP in 06 and 07, right?

But let's be honest, no way Nash was the MVP. (At least to me). Hell of a player, no doubt.

If Kobe, Bird and Duncan are all top 10 all-time, who amongst this group is outside the top 10?

MJ, Magic, West, Oscar, Lebron, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Olajuwon.

I'd be willing to put Shaq outside the top 10. Incredibly dominant, and he played forever, but he may not have been as great for as long as some of the other guys in that list. I think West/Hakeem/Ocar/Kobe/Shaq would be near the back of the top 10. Maybe Duncan too?

Lebron is really difficult to rank right now, since he is so young. Setting him aside, my top 5 would look something like Michael/Kareem/Russell/Magic/Wilt or Bird. (I think? So maybe I need to keep Bird over Duncan then)

tough to see Lebron at 10.

I agree; like i said he's tough to rank since he's so relatively young. It's incredible to say, but it's almost an insult to rank him 10th, considering how good he has been, but if he had to retire tomorrow, I'm not sure you could rank him any higher.

Considering the trajectory he is on, we are probably headed to a situation where we are legitimately debating MJ/Lebron in 10-15 years. But he can't be put there yet

 

[Alsacs]

tough to see Lebron at 10.

I'd have to go magic at 2.

Lebron EASILY moves up with more rings he could become number 1, but am I ranking current resumes. 1 ring out of 3 chances right now he has to win more and he will easily be top 5 if not no.1.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Bird. All-round game.

 

[CorduroyG]

you guys realize tony parker is a future hall of famer right? lets not act like duncan won those titles by himself, come on. and ginobili is a 2 time all star. pao gasol won ZERO playoff games before joining kobe and the lakers so its not like he was a dominant big guy.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

"a stud backup center Rick Roby" - A funny, funny line.

 

[Alsacs]

Hmm, I was thinking more 2003/2004 for T-Mac, Nash won the MVP in 06 and 07, right?

But let's be honest, no way Nash was the MVP. (At least to me). Hell of a player, no doubt.



I'd be willing to put Shaq outside the top 10. Incredibly dominant, and he played forever, but he may not have been as great for as long as some of the other guys in that list. I think West/Hakeem/Ocar/Kobe/Shaq would be near the back of the top 10. Maybe Duncan too?

Lebron is really difficult to rank right now, since he is so young. Setting him aside, my top 5 would look something like Michael/Kareem/Russell/Magic/Wilt or Bird. (I think? So maybe I need to keep Bird over Duncan then)


I agree; like i said he's tough to rank since he's so relatively young. It's incredible to say, but it's almost an insult to rank him 10th, considering how good he has been, but if he had to retire tomorrow, I'm not sure you could rank him any higher.

Considering the trajectory he is on, we are probably headed to a situation where we are legitimately debating MJ/Lebron in 10-15 years. But he can't be put there yet

People forget the handchecking rule was changed after that awfully boring San Antoni0-Detroit finals in 2005 where defenses were so far ahead(I am looking you at CURRENT NCAA basketball refs) and allowed physical defenses to get away with bumping and checking, after that change and Nash moved to Phoenix his offensive game became dominant, but his defense was still horrible and the all ole defense he played on Tony Parker was why San Antonio owned Phoenix. Nash had no business winning any MVPs as MVP voting in the NBA is horrible and becomes a cute angle of who can we give the award too only 5 guys since 2000 should have even been considered Iverson, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, and Duncan, but because the writers want to give it to other people Nash stupidly won it 2 years in a row and Iverson was by far the better the NBA player, but because his demons ruined his career early people forget him. Iverson is the same age as Andre Miller and Tim Duncan.

 

[Alsacs]

"a stud backup center Rick Roby" - A funny, funny line.

You realize what a backup center is playing right? 19-25 minutes a game. The Celtics were able to trade Rick Robey for Dennis Johnson. If your backup C is giving you 6 ppg and 5 rpg how many teams would say no in 17 mpg?

games/start/minutes/rpg/ppg
1980-81 25 C 82 4 19.1 6.5 9.0
1981-82 26 C 80 4 14.8 4.8 5.7
1982-83 27 C 59 6 14.5 3.7 4.2

 

[dasher]

You realize what a backup center is playing right? 19-25 minutes a game. The Celtics were able to trade Rick Robey for Dennis Johnson. If your backup C is giving you 6 ppg and 5 rpg how many teams would say no in 17 mpg?

games/start/minutes/rpg/ppg
1980-81 25 C 82 4 19.1 6.5 9.0
1981-82 26 C 80 4 14.8 4.8 5.7
1982-83 27 C 59 6 14.5 3.7 4.2

If you saw RR play as I did, you wouldn't call him a stud back up. DJ was thought by many to be washed up when the celts stole him.

 

[dasher]

I always find it interesting that Russell is sold a bit short. 11 titles in 13 years. The greatest team player of all time. He always won. College, pros, didn't matter.

 

[RF2044]

I always find it interesting that Russell is sold a bit short. 11 titles in 13 years. The greatest team player of all time. He always won. College, pros, didn't matter.

Olympics, too.

 

[Alsacs]

If you saw RR play as I did, you wouldn't call him a stud back up. DJ was thought by many to be washed up when the celts stole him.

I understand the Celtics stole DJ from Seattle and Robey wasn't as good as DJ and in fact Robey held Bird back because they were drinking buddies, but if your team has enough depth with McHale, Bird, Parish that Robey was the backup C you had a lot of depth, which my point was Bird's teams had way more depth because of the lack of expansion and the low salaries of the 1980's compared to the luxury tax, Bird rights, and the soft salary cap of Duncan's NBA. How many teams today have backup Centers as good as Rick Robey's years with Boston?

 

[Knicks411]

I always find it interesting that Russell is sold a bit short. 11 titles in 13 years. The greatest team player of all time. He always won. College, pros, didn't matter.

Is he being sold short? Alsacs posted a top 10, he had Russell second. I threw a rough top 5 out there, I had him third. If you're saying he should be the #1 player of all time then I guess, but I think he's pretty rightly considered one of the three or so best players of alltime

 

[MikeSU02]

I actually think if Bias didn't die you would have seen Bird transform his game to become a better passer. Also he would have benefited from not being the center of attention in his later years with Bias by his side.

Bird has gone on record as saying he would have retired in '88 if Bias hadn't died.

See interview here, 1:25 mark:

 

[dasher]

Is he being sold short? Alsacs posted a top 10, he had Russell second. I threw a rough top 5 out there, I had him third. If you're saying he should be the #1 player of all time then I guess, but I think he's pretty rightly considered one of the three or so best players of alltime

I wasn't singling you two guys out. Just what I hear on talk radio and such.

 

[Eric15]

I always find it interesting that Russell is sold a bit short. 11 titles in 13 years. The greatest team player of all time. He always won. College, pros, didn't matter.

I personally don't think Russell is sold short - I've never seen anyone who didn't have him in the top half dozen players of all-time. And 11 titles in 13 years is obviously an incredible accomplishment, but it's important to keep in mind that the NBA only had about 10 teams in the league in those days.

 

[dasher]

I personally don't think Russell is sold short - I've never seen anyone who didn't have him in the top half dozen players of all-time. And 11 titles in 13 years is obviously an incredible accomplishment, but it's important to keep in mind that the NBA only had about 10 teams in the league in those days.

In some ways, having fewer teams made it tougher. Yes, there were less playoff rounds. But there were some other power house teams at that time. The 76ers, the lakers. Cinn had Robertson and Lucas and still weren't any good.

 

[Upstate]

People are underrating Duncan. He is/has been incredible his entire career.

 

[RandygoCuse]

If Kobe, Bird and Duncan are all top 10 all-time, who amongst this group is outside the top 10?

Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Duncan
Bryant
Lebron
West

Baylor and Olajuwon round out my top 12

Shaq and Oscar are off the list...I heard an intersting question about Shaq once. Think back to when he was drafted - 7 footer, big body and extremely athletic; Knowing all this, has he accomplished anything you didn't think he would?

 

[RandygoCuse]

If you saw RR play as I did, you wouldn't call him a stud back up. DJ was thought by many to be washed up when the celts stole him.

DJ was always my favorite Celtic after Bird

 

[SWC75]

If you were making a list of the all-time greatest players in NBA history (based on whatever metrics you choose), who would you rank higher - Bird or Duncan? And why?

Here's a good follow-up question: how would people rate them if Bird had played in San Antonio and Duncan in Boston?

 

[RF2044]

No way in hell that Oscar Robertson should be out of the top 10.

I realize most people haven't seen him play, but c'mon.

 

[Eric15]

Here's a good follow-up question: how would people rate them if Bird had played in San Antonio and Duncan in Boston?

Bird would have had more success in San Antonio, because Duncan and McHale could never have worked together, they're essentially the same player and the lane would be way too clogged, and that doesn't even factor in Robert Parish.

 

[SWC75]

Bird would have had more success in San Antonio, because Duncan and McHale could never have worked together, they're essentially the same player and the lane would be way too clogged, and that doesn't even factor in Robert Parish.

I was thinking more of the venue than the teammates. Do we tend to over-rate Bird because he played in Boston and under-rate Duncan because he played in San Antonio?

 

[Knicks411]

I was thinking more of the venue than the teammates. Do we tend to over-rate Bird because he played in Boston and under-rate Duncan because he played in San Antonio?

I think it's possible, though more likely we underrate Duncan than overrate Bird, if that makes sense.