Time to recalibrate.

[GoSU96]

The overall talent between the two teams was very close in fact from a skill position standpoint Marrone inherited much more then Robinson did. Coach P's last two classes were awful, if you want to tell me the seniors Robinson got were better then I agree but after that your argument falls apart.

2006: Lacasse, Ojinnaka, ASmith, Wyche, Drame, Franklin, Gregory, Kowalewski, Rhodes, Shor. Drafted or Free Agents.
2007: TJackson, KSmith, Atkinson, Carney, Lemon, Mackey, Patterson
2008: DDavis, Fields, JMcClain, Madison
2009: Fiammetta, Durand, Brinkley, Chiara
2010: AJones
2011: A Lewis.

All kids that Pasqualoni left on the roster or recruited into the program. It wasn't just the seniors on Robinson's first team.

Robinson recruited kids that Marrone picked up that have received contracts to date.

MWilliams, Carter, Hogue, Bartholomew, Holmes, DSmith. 17 vs 6.

My guess is that only CJones and Provo get a contract this year and next the potential list after that is limited to Pugh, Lemon, Sales, and Nassib.

There is one position that was better than when Robinson got there was WR. That's it. And WR, as much seem to want to make, is not an entire football team.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Go is right, everything is peaches.

That's not what he's saying. He's just pointing out that things could be worse. Much, much worse.

 

[GoSU96]

Go is right, everything is peaches.

When did I say that.

I guess you missed, "The team is more competitive, it has improved and continues to do so. There is still more to do."

How does there is more to do equal everything is peaches?

This is a program with a ton of issues. It's struggling getting talent in fast enough. It hasn't been able to upgrade some positions as it has needed to.

They have been forced to play kids before they are ready. They are forced into playing 2 and 3 star players from day one. Other programs play 3/4/5 star players by choice.

The talent has limited some of the things they want to do and has forced them to experiment with other ways of doing things.
This isn't a video game where in year three of a start up program you are undefeated in dynasty mode. Reality isn't like that.

 

[billsin01]

When did I say that.

I guess you missed, "The team is more competitive, it has improved and continues to do so. There is still more to do."

How does there is more to do equal everything is peaches?

This is a program with a ton of issues. It's struggling getting talent in fast enough. It hasn't been able to upgrade some positions as it has needed to.

They have been forced to play kids before they are ready. They are forced into playing 2 and 3 star players from day one. Other programs play 3/4/5 star players by choice.

The talent has limited some of the things they want to do and has forced them to experiment with other ways of doing things.
This isn't a video game where in year three of a start up program you are undefeated in dynasty mode. Reality isn't like that.

This is a bizarre thread. I'm not sure how anyone could argue that Marrone didn't inherit a cratered program. I'm a defender of his recruiting (in fact, I tend to think development is a HUGE element of any program that consistently produces good NFL talent) to the extent that I don't think it was anywhere near as bad as basically everything else he did. But, generally, yes he ran a program trending downward straight into the ground.

I also don't see how folks are still arguing that P somehow left this program in great shape. I get that there may have been extenuating circumstances, but whether you blame it on P and D or the administration, etc., it's clear we had taken several steps back from our late 90s levels.

And, lastly, Marrone still has a lot to prove. There is a sour taste in everyone's mouth (mine included) due to an ugly and prolonged losing streak and little to suggest that that changes this year.

That's basically it. Is Marrone capable of bringing us to, at minimum, a much higher level of success than we are currently experiencing? I don't see why not. Could he also very well struggle for the next two years and give way to the next savior? I don't see why not. Anyone who claims otherwise on those topics either knows far more about the inner workings of the program or is talking out their backside (and I'm guessing most, if not all, fall into the latter category).

 

[GoSU96]

simple question why the hostility?

take a look at last seasons stats and get back to me

Which ones, you mean in passing where they were 100 yds per game better than 2008, or scoring where they were 6 pts better, or passing efficiency where they were ranked 56 spots higher than 2008?

Or did you mean run defense, which was ranked 32rd vs 101st? Or was it sacks, which were two per game better than 2008.

Did the run offense and pass defense take a step back last year, yes, but other than that every measure better than 2008.

The hostility is because you're willfully ignorant.

 

[orange03]

When did I say that.

I guess you missed, "The team is more competitive, it has improved and continues to do so. There is still more to do."

How does there is more to do equal everything is peaches?

This is a program with a ton of issues. It's struggling getting talent in fast enough. It hasn't been able to upgrade some positions as it has needed to.

They have been forced to play kids before they are ready. They are forced into playing 2 and 3 star players from day one. Other programs play 3/4/5 star players by choice.

The talent has limited some of the things they want to do and has forced them to experiment with other ways of doing things.
This isn't a video game where in year three of a start up program you are undefeated in dynasty mode. Reality isn't like that.

My bad. Not going to start an argument but let's just say I don't have the same positive vibes in regards to Marrone and the direction the football team is headed.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The talent has limited some of the things they want to do and has forced them to experiment with other ways of doing things.
This isn't a video game where in year three of a start up program you are undefeated in dynasty mode. Reality isn't like that.

Let the record show that on the 5th of April all of the conversations came full circle when GO threw out the "Yeah, 'cuz video games" conversation closer.

 

[GoSU96]

Let the record show that on the 5th of April all of the conversations came full circle when GO threw out the "Yeah, 'cuz video games" conversation closer.

Seems to be your mentality.

 

[GoSU96]

This is a bizarre thread. I'm not sure how anyone could argue that Marrone didn't inherit a cratered program. I'm a defender of his recruiting (in fact, I tend to think development is a HUGE element of any program that consistently produces good NFL talent) to the extent that I don't think it was anywhere near as bad as basically everything else he did. But, generally, yes he ran a program trending downward straight into the ground.

I also don't see how folks are still arguing that P somehow left this program in great shape. I get that there may have been extenuating circumstances, but whether you blame it on P and D or the administration, etc., it's clear we had taken several steps back from our late 90s levels.

And, lastly, Marrone still has a lot to prove. There is a sour taste in everyone's mouth (mine included) due to an ugly and prolonged losing streak and little to suggest that that changes this year.

That's basically it. Is Marrone capable of bringing us to, at minimum, a much higher level of success than we are currently experiencing? I don't see why not. Could he also very well struggle for the next two years and give way to the next savior? I don't see why not. Anyone who claims otherwise on those topics either knows far more about the inner workings of the program or is talking out their backside (and I'm guessing most, if not all, fall into the latter category).

Here's the state of the program.

It's still a mess, it's much less of a mess than it was, it's back to about where it was on December 22. 2004. That it's taken 7 seasons to get back to that level is a shame.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Seems to be your mentality.

False. I watch real college football teams of all skill and talent levels move the ball with ease and score touchdowns and think, hey, if so many others can do that, since we are the only BCS team that plays in a climate and condition controlled venue, I bet we could too. And if we could, and since the way you win football games is by having more points than the opponent when the clocks out, I think maybe we should.

However, since it clearly helps you feel good to assume others that identify clear failures of our program to succeed offensively compared to the landscape of college football justify their claims cuz' video games, by all means continue to bask in your reality grounded superiority. There hasn't been enough of that on the board lately.

 

[billsin01]

Here's the state of the program.

It's still a mess, it's much less of a mess than it was, it's back to about where it was on December 22. 2004. That it's taken 7 seasons to get back to that level is a shame.

True, and I'm not sure there's much that anyone can argue with about that.

 

[rosconey]

Which ones, you mean in passing where they were 100 yds per game better than 2008, or scoring where they were 6 pts better, or passing efficiency where they were ranked 56 spots higher than 2008?

Or did you mean run defense, which was ranked 32rd vs 101st? Or was it sacks, which were two per game better than 2008.

Did the run offense and pass defense take a step back last year, yes, but other than that every measure better than 2008.

The hostility is because you're willfully ignorant.

you say groober sucked like no other-then say these small improvements are major- 6 whole points better after 3 years is astounding by any measure-
99th in rushing-man i bet usc is scared to death-
101 st in total offense
74th in passing-watch out alabama-
you must be even more ignorant to ignore those points

 

[GoSU96]

you say groober sucked like no other-then say these small improvements are major- 6 whole points better after 3 years is astounding by any measure-
99th in rushing-man i bet usc is scared to death-
101 st in total offense
74th in passing-watch out alabama-
you must be even more ignorant to ignore those points

At least try to be accurate. 99th, 101st, 74th? Uh, no.

The actual numbers aren't all that great, but why lie to make your point?

Passing offense, 100+ yds better per game. Total offense 80 yds better per game. Scoring, almost a TD better per game.

If Marrone took over a functioning program, you might have a point. But since he didn't, you don't.

 

[Scooch]

True, and I'm not sure there's much that anyone can argue with about that.

One might only argue that we're actually still not back to 2004 levels.

Actually, yeah, I'll argue that, we're still not back to 2004 levels. I think that 2004 team would beat any of the 3 Marrone teams, quite honestly.

 

[rosconey]

At least try to be accurate. 99th, 101st, 74th? Uh, no.

The actual numbers aren't all that great, but why lie to make your point?

Passing offense, 100+ yds better per game. Total offense 80 yds better per game. Scoring, almost a TD better per game.

If Marrone took over a functioning program, you might have a point. But since he didn't, you don't.

straight off espn- sorry if reality sucks more now than a moment ago

kinda pathetic you couldnt take 30 seconds and at least look up the stats before posting crap

 

[rosconey]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/team/_/stat/total

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/team/_/stat/passing

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing


im all giddy waiting for the fantastic comeback you must be working on-

please try and use reality in it just a little if you can

 

[GoSU96]

Espn?

You have got to be kidding.

You do realize that those are sorted by total yards for the year?

I guess you don't realize that's not how it't actually done.

Seems to be a problem with teams playing different numbers of games.

Pretty basic stuff.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

 

[rosconey]

Espn?

You have got to be kidding.

You do realize that those are sorted by total yards for the year?

I guess you don't realize that's not how it't actually done.

Seems to be a problem with teams playing different numbers of games.

Pretty basic stuff.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

yet you have none to show a marked improvement- i call bs

 

[rrlbees]

How can you say that? The record says it. The statisical performance says it. Rushing Offense - 55th, Passing Offense 113th, Passing Efficiency 113th, Total Offense 114th, Scoring Offense 108th, Sacks Allowed 98th, Rushing Defense 101st, Pass Defense 83rd, Pass . Defense 101st, Total Defense 101st, Scoring Defense 101st, Sacks 100th, Tackles for Loss, 104th.

By any definition, that is cratered.

Then congrats to GRob for leaving Marrone so much talent that at year 2 he was able to go 8-5. As someone else said, you can't have it both ways in these discussions.

 

[kingottoiii]

One might only argue that we're actually still not back to 2004 levels.

Actually, yeah, I'll argue that, we're still not back to 2004 levels. I think that 2004 team would beat any of the 3 Marrone teams, quite honestly.

And that is the real issue. We shouldn't be celebrating that we are not at the GRob level when we are still quite a bit away from the mediocre 2003/2004 levels. When we start moving toward that 2003/2004 level we can give Marrone a cookie.

 

[rrlbees]

2006: Lacasse, Ojinnaka, ASmith, Wyche, Drame, Franklin, Gregory, Kowalewski, Rhodes, Shor. Drafted or Free Agents.
2007: TJackson, KSmith, Atkinson, Carney, Lemon, Mackey, Patterson
2008: DDavis, Fields, JMcClain, Madison
2009: Fiammetta, Durand, Brinkley, Chiara
2010: AJones
2011: A Lewis.

All kids that Pasqualoni left on the roster or recruited into the program. It wasn't just the seniors on Robinson's first team.

Robinson recruited kids that Marrone picked up that have received contracts to date.

MWilliams, Carter, Hogue, Bartholomew, Holmes, DSmith. 17 vs 6.

My guess is that only CJones and Provo get a contract this year and next the potential list after that is limited to Pugh, Lemon, Sales, and Nassib.

There is one position that was better than when Robinson got there was WR. That's it. And WR, as much seem to want to make, is not an entire football team.

My god, you're counting kids that never got a sniff at the field in the NFL. It's also not basketball where a few good ones can carry a team. Try posting the last 3 P classes, it's embarrassing.

 

[rrlbees]

Espn?

You have got to be kidding.

You do realize that those are sorted by total yards for the year?

I guess you don't realize that's not how it't actually done.

Seems to be a problem with teams playing different numbers of games.

Pretty basic stuff.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

Rushing Offense 95 120.42
Passing Offense 65 227.75
Total Offense 90 348.17
Scoring Offense 84 24.17
Rushing Defense 32 128.17
Pass Efficiency Defense 84 137.01
Total Defense 64 386.42
Scoring Defense 73 28.50
Net Punting 98 34.78
Punt Returns 116 3.08
Kickoff Returns 42 22.64
Turnover Margin T-42 .17
Pass Defense 98 258.25
Passing Efficiency 57 131.17
Sacks 28 2.33
Tackles For Loss 35 6.67
Sacks Allowed 90 2.42

 

[KaiserUEO]

My god, you're counting kids that never got a sniff at the field in the NFL. It's also not basketball where a few good ones can carry a team. Try posting the last 3 P classes, it's embarrassing.

is the one with courtney greene and ray rice included??

grobbycakes was quite possibly the dumbest hire in the history of D1 sports. the bigeast is a feeder coach conf, grob didnt fit the bill. if you are not feeding, you need a lifer like P or a wanny whose back at his school playing off his name. both who can at least hold their own with recruits. wanny has never proven he can coach, P has.

firing P they way they did was the biggest joke in the history of college athletics. hes going to be Head of the Coaches Association or whatever, WON the bigeast and went to a BOWL game...and they fire him.


pissing off 15 years or so of P letterman alumni.

plus much of the mac alumni.

we deserve 1o years of HELL for that.

marrone is pulling us out of Dante's Inferno, and if he cant complete it...then the next guy will.

Oh Lord

 

[IthacaMatt]

You are kidding right?

Cost "several W's a year"? What team were you watching? Did you even look at the numbers. If you count the Akron loss 21 of 47 games were lost by 20 or more points. That's not ineptness that is across the board uncompetitiveness. It wasn't Robinson costing a couple of games with some bad decisions. There wasn't one phase of the game in which they were competent.

That's the team Marrone took over. If you don't think they have progressed you're blind.

And if you don't think Marrone is at risk of plateau-ing as a .500 coach, or maybe a little worse, then you're blind. We need to be competitive in conference. Going 1-6 against the Big East in year 3 sucks. There is no excuse for that.

 

[rrlbees]

is the one with courtney greene and ray rice included??

grobbycakes was quite possibly the dumbest hire in the history of D1 sports. the bigeast is a feeder coach conf, grob didnt fit the bill. if you are not feeding, you need a lifer like P or a wanny whose back at his school playing off his name. both who can at least hold their own with recruits. wanny has never proven he can coach, P has.

firing P they way they did was the biggest joke in the history of college athletics. hes going to be Head of the Coaches Association or whatever, WON the bigeast and went to a BOWL game...and they fire him.


pissing off 15 years or so of P letterman alumni.

plus much of the mac alumni.

we deserve 1o years of HELL for that.

marrone is pulling us out of Dante's Inferno, and if he cant complete it...then the next guy will.

Oh Lord

Whether it was handled properly or not, it was time for P to go. A 3 year record under .500, epic losses by 50 pts, losses to scrubs, a disgruntled fan base, deteriorating attendance, the complete loss of recruiting in NJ which was a stronghold prior, and last but not least, our own players recruiting against us by complaining to recruits on their visits about the staff. all of those in total said "it's time". just because the wrong hire was then made, doesn't change the end of P's tenure. whether some of you want to admit it or not, the regression of su football did not "start" with grob, it started 3 years prior.