Time to recalibrate.

[KaiserUEO]

Whether it was handled properly or not, it was time for P to go. A 3 year record under .500, epic losses by 50 pts, losses to scrubs, a disgruntled fan base, deteriorating attendance, the complete loss of recruiting in NJ which was a stronghold prior, and last but not least, our own players recruiting against us by complaining to recruits on their visits about the staff. all of those in total said "it's time". just because the wrong hire was then made, doesn't change the end of P's tenure. whether some of you want to admit it or not, the regression of su football did not "start" with grob, it started 3 years prior.

and the way they fired him, alienated every single HS inroad we had.

after that, im sure that HS coaches were telling grobbys buffoons that a kid who should be at cortland could play for SU...and they believed it, thus giving that HS coach another D1 player.

good lord, major applewhite...does that know where the jersey turnpike is now??

hell, i dont think grobbycakes even knows that the NYS Thruway is both 90 and 87.

stoopid stoopid stoopid.

give P, grobs 4 years, with the plus' gross brought....and lets see what happens.

and i just looked at the schedule and the wins and losses from those years.

wow, so much better than what even marrone has accomplished.

yes, theres a couple of blow outs in there and a stoopid loss or 2. but by and large, much better football.

 

[rrlbees]

and the way they fired him, alienated every single HS inroad we had.

after that, im sure that HS coaches were telling grobbys buffoons that a kid who should be at cortland could play for SU...and they believed it, thus giving that HS coach another D1 player.

good lord, major applewhite...does that know where the jersey turnpike is now??

hell, i dont think grobbycakes even knows that the NYS Thruway is both 90 and 87.

stoopid stoopid stoopid.

give P, grobs 4 years, with the plus' gross brought....and lets see what happens.

and i just looked at the schedule and the wins and losses from those years.

wow, so much better than what even marrone has accomplished.

yes, theres a couple of blow outs in there and a stoopid loss or 2. but by and large, much better football.

i thought the applewhite was great. he was a rising star and has shown that by looking at his career path since he left. not sure what the thruway reference is to. grob started getting more upstate kids and nj kids that p wasn't his last few seasons.

 

[KaiserUEO]

applewhite was in over his head at the time. you dont bring a kid 1 year out of college from texas to coach qbs in NYS unless he knows how to recruit in the northeast. grob also didnt know how to recruit, getting upstate NYS kids was problem #1. who cares where theyre from?? this is a private school. go get kids who can play. unless theyre mark may or tim green...SU can pass on them. and yeah, i know they didnt get mark may.

 

[JeremyCuse]

My god, you're counting kids that never got a sniff at the field in the NFL. It's also not basketball where a few good ones can carry a team. Try posting the last 3 P classes, it's embarrassing.

Was gonna post the same thing, most of the kids were out of football by the first cuts in training camp, the cupboard was all but bare after that senior year class graduated after Grobs first year.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Whether it was handled properly or not, it was time for P to go. A 3 year record under .500, epic losses by 50 pts, losses to scrubs, a disgruntled fan base, deteriorating attendance, the complete loss of recruiting in NJ which was a stronghold prior, and last but not least, our own players recruiting against us by complaining to recruits on their visits about the staff. all of those in total said "it's time". just because the wrong hire was then made, doesn't change the end of P's tenure. whether some of you want to admit it or not, the regression of su football did not "start" with grob, it started 3 years prior.

This is spot on, it was time for P to go. Obviously the Grob hire was a disaster and the situation just got worst but most fans were sick of getting blown out on every big/national TV game year and year out Be it Purdue, Miami, GTech, Va Tech etc enough was enough. Recruiting was a shadow of what it once was and even though Kaiser maybe right in that we alienated some coaches it didnt matter because they werent sending us there kids anyway.

 

[RF2044]

Was gonna post the same thing, most of the kids were out of football by the first cuts in training camp, the cupboard was all but bare after that senior year class graduated after Grobs first year.

Then why did GRob go 1-10 that first year, when the cupboard ostensibly wasn't bare, but posted better records the next two years, when we had inferior talent from P's last few classes?

Look, I'm not disputing that the program had gone stale under P nor that recruiting had tailed off. But why would the results be better after the seniors from the bowl team GRob inherited graduated if the cupboard was all but bare?

 

[rrlbees]

Then why did GRob go 1-10 that first year, when the cupboard ostensibly wasn't bare, but posted better records the next two years, when we had inferior talent from P's last few classes?

Look, I'm not disputing that the program had gone stale under P nor that recruiting had tailed off. But why would the results be better after the seniors from the bowl team GRob inherited graduated if the cupboard was all but bare?

square peg round hole on offense. that should have been his best season because that senior class did have talent. in fact, the defense improved immensely from the prior season. but the offense....should have stayed with the same offense instead of changing everything all at once. Plus, PP really sucked and we had no WR and lost reyes. we had talent, but mostly on defense. grob got them to play better than p had the prior season when they really sucked, but they were a year older too.

 

[billsin01]

applewhite was in over his head at the time. you dont bring a kid 1 year out of college from texas to coach qbs in NYS unless he knows how to recruit in the northeast. grob also didnt know how to recruit, getting upstate NYS kids was problem #1. who cares where theyre from?? this is a private school. go get kids who can play. unless theyre mark may or tim green...SU can pass on them. and yeah, i know they didnt get mark may.

Yeah, you need a Hackett type to get the QBs firing and tear up the recruiting trail.

 

[billsin01]

My god, you're counting kids that never got a sniff at the field in the NFL. It's also not basketball where a few good ones can carry a team. Try posting the last 3 P classes, it's embarrassing.

True and it should be pointed out that when 30 players transfer after a guy's departure he should get some acknowledgement of that, particularly after the guys that remained became the corner stones of teh only bowl we've sniffed in 7 years.

 

[Scooch]

Dear sweet God, arguing about the last 3 years of Pasqualoni and the 4 years of GumpRob is like playing FMK for Roseanne Barr, Rosie O'Donnell, and Camryn Manheim.

There is no winner.

 

[rrlbees]

Dear sweet God, arguing about the last 3 years of Pasqualoni and the 4 years is like playing FMK for Roseanne Barr, Rosie O'Donnell, and Camryn Manheim.

There is no winner.

Agree completely. Just wonder why when someone doesn't agree with Marrone or think things aren't great, some people default to the tried and true "well it's better than Grob".

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[billsin01]

Whether it was handled properly or not, it was time for P to go. A 3 year record under .500, epic losses by 50 pts, losses to scrubs, a disgruntled fan base, deteriorating attendance, the complete loss of recruiting in NJ which was a stronghold prior, and last but not least, our own players recruiting against us by complaining to recruits on their visits about the staff. all of those in total said "it's time". just because the wrong hire was then made, doesn't change the end of P's tenure. whether some of you want to admit it or not, the regression of su football did not "start" with grob, it started 3 years prior.

Yeah, and part of what I think can be overlooked about P's successes, particularly in terms of recruiting, is the context of what other regional programs were doing at the time. While P was inheriting a program that was humming along from Mac, BC didn't make a bowl for a 5-year stretch in the 90s, lived through the dan henning era, had the gambling scandal and then had a 21-game losing streak against ranked opponents that finally ended in 2001.

RU was in the midst of the Terry Shea era and spent five years (I think) under Doug Graber, who was OK but still under .500 and no particular threat.

Temple was, well, asked to leave the big east.

Pitt was Pitt except not recruiting like Pitt has since the start of the Wanny/Heinz Field era.

WVU was enduring the end of the Nehlan era and struggling as well.

UConn wasn't around until 2001.

I like P, think he did a great job and is an excellent coach. But I think it's tough not to feel like some of the success he had was at the expense of these other schools being down. Would he have been better than GRob? It would be hard to argue otherwise. But let's not pretend he would have been tearing up the recruiting trail vs. the likes of Petrino/Kelly/RichRod/Wanny (who shockingly seemed to be pretty good at this)/Schiano and even Edsall.

 

[OttoForLife]

Remember that bunny hop drop back someone taught Andrew Robinson? Oy. This entire thread is bringing back so many horrible memories like that. Make it stop!

 

[GoSU96]

Agree completely. Just wonder why when someone doesn't agree with Marrone or think things aren't great, some people default to the tried and true "well it's better than Grob".

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Nobody is arguing "well it's better than Grob".

The only reason I refer to the past to remind people what the starting point was. That's it. It's a point of reference to measure progress against.

If you don't understand just how bad it was, you have no context to judge the current state of the program against.

 

[GoSU96]

yet you have none to show a marked improvement- i call bs

What does this mean?

 

[GoSU96]

And that is the real issue. We shouldn't be celebrating that we are not at the GRob level when we are still quite a bit away from the mediocre 2003/2004 levels. When we start moving toward that 2003/2004 level we can give Marrone a cookie.

Who's celebrating?

Jesus

 

[upperdeck]

if the team just finishes out the uconn game, or the pitt game with the last drive we go bowling and all this talk is gone..

 

[rrlbees]

if the team just finishes out the uconn game, or the pitt game with the last drive we go bowling and all this talk is gone..

or shows faith in the offense to get 6 inches. damn, we should have been 8-4 and gone bowling.

 

[RF2044]

if the team just finishes out the uconn game, or the pitt game with the last drive we go bowling and all this talk is gone..

...or don't collapse in the Rutgers game. We had lots of chances to get it done.

 

[Chip]

2006: Lacasse, Ojinnaka, ASmith, Wyche, Drame, Franklin, Gregory, Kowalewski, Rhodes, Shor. Drafted or Free Agents.
2007: TJackson, KSmith, Atkinson, Carney, Lemon, Mackey, Patterson
2008: DDavis, Fields, JMcClain, Madison
2009: Fiammetta, Durand, Brinkley, Chiara
2010: AJones
2011: A Lewis.

All kids that Pasqualoni left on the roster or recruited into the program. It wasn't just the seniors on Robinson's first team.

Robinson recruited kids that Marrone picked up that have received contracts to date.

MWilliams, Carter, Hogue, Bartholomew, Holmes, DSmith. 17 vs 6.

My guess is that only CJones and Provo get a contract this year and next the potential list after that is limited to Pugh, Lemon, Sales, and Nassib.

There is one position that was better than when Robinson got there was WR. That's it. And WR, as much seem to want to make, is not an entire football team.

The #'s dwindling at 2008 and 2009 help tell a story though. 9 to 7 to 4 to 4. And in 2009 you have a drafted FB, a drafted OL, an oft injured TB, and a guy that I can't believe you included and I'm not sure what favor was called in to get him a contract, no offense to him I'm sure he's a nice guy and I know he has a good education.

You give Marrone a pretty long leash to turn over a roster, but you've often posted that GRob didn't get that same leash because he was "flashing his NFL rings" and should have had recruits lining up. But in the same breath, you'll agree with OrangePa about just how far we fell behind in the Facilities Arms Race. It's not very consistent.

This whole premise seems flawed to me, free agent contracts given to some of those guys, to me, is challenging to make an argument. Perry Patterson? Sunday? Really?

 

[Scooch]

Nobody is arguing "well it's better than Grob".

The only reason I refer to the past to remind people what the starting point was. That's it. It's a point of reference to measure progress against.

If you don't understand just how bad it was, you have no context to judge the current state of the program against.

Go, I completely get what you're saying, and I understand why you make the references that you do.

That being said, the fly in that ointment is 2010. It's just hard to reconcile the notion that the program was a total, epic disaster with the fact that 1 season removed from it we managed to go 8-5 and win a bowl game.

I'm not suggesting the GRob era wasn't a clusterf#ck of the highest order. It's just hard to wrap my head around the idea that we were "devastated" as a program, yet won 8 games (OK, really 6 against D-1A opponents) 2 years later.

It suggests that Marrone is a really good coach, no? And I sure as hell want to believe that. But then people saw the incompetence that was last season (particularly the last 5 games, but even 6 of the first 7 were kinda brutal) and wonder if maybe 2010 was more fluke than sign of things to come.

I'm pretty agnostic at this point. But no one has been able to really explain well the relative success of 2010 in the context of the program being dead when Marrone took over.

 

[Bayside44]

We were probably 2 or 3 plays away from being bowl eligible in Marrone's first year. Catch a pass or two against Minny and punt one outta bounds against UL. GRob left some decent skill guys behind, better than P did. P's guys were liabilities. And Paulus did help.

More or less the same last season. Pick six against RU (or no stupid slant to a WR who had not played) and whatever against UConn.

Anyway, onward and upward.

 

[orangenirvana]

It's still a mess, it's much less of a mess than it was, it's back to about where it was on December 22. 2004. That it's taken 7 seasons to get back to that level is a shame.

Is it?

2004 - 4-3 BE record, tied for first
2011 - 1-6 BE record, dead last

We're not back at that level, which is sad. My concern with Marrone is that a competent coach wouldn't need four years to get back to where this program was in 2004 (which wasn't very good at all).

 

[All4SU]

The issue that you ALWAYS fail to address is GRob's ineptness cost us several Ws a year. Marrone in reality doesn't have us any higher than we would be had GRob been semi competent. The fact that Marrone has been better than GRob is useless.

I don't get it, isn't ineptness part of the definition of poor performance? Doesn't Marrone's "eptness" count for anything?

 

[Scooch]

We were probably 2 or 3 plays away from being bowl eligible in Marrone's first year. Catch a pass or two against Minny and punt one outta bounds against UL. GRob left some decent skill guys behind, better than P did. P's guys were liabilities. And Paulus did help.

More or less the same last season. Pick six against RU (or no stupid slant to a WR who had not played) and whatever against UConn.

Anyway, onward and upward.

All true.

Of course going down that road, we were a play or 2 away from being in a BCS bowl in 2004, and then the entire history of SU football would have changed.

But you make my point, program devastation is what Greg Schiano inherited. Marrone walked into a mess, but there were some usable pieces, obviously.