Time to scrap the hurry-up spread... | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Time to scrap the hurry-up spread...

People really need to think about this post.

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I've thought about it. If he gets drafted in the middle rounds, I'll seriously reconsider the talent evaluation for the team who drafts him. I don't see nfl talent in Ryan, unless you consider chucking a ball 90mph at a receiver standing 5 yards from you nfl talent
 
People really need to think about this post.

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I think people are missing the point of Bees' post. The point is not about Nassib being drafted. The point, IMO, is the previous statement - Amazing that coaches throughout the country these days can put up a gazillion points year after year with BUMS for Quarterbacks. Not trying to put words in Bee's mouth, but the first sentence in ONirvana's post is MUCH more important/distressing than the last. And arguing over where/if Nassib will be drafted is just silly. Many more urgent issues to discuss.
 
I've thought about it. If he gets drafted in the middle rounds, I'll seriously reconsider the talent evaluation for the team who drafts him. I don't see nfl talent in Ryan, unless you consider chucking a ball 90mph at a receiver standing 5 yards from you nfl talent

I'm also talking about the other side if the coin where teams seem to be putting up a gazzilion points and don't all have Gino Smith's out there.

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I think people are missing the point of Bees' post. The point is not about Nassib being drafted. The point, IMO, is the previous statement - Amazing that coaches throughout the country these days can put up a gazillion points year after year with BUMS for Quarterbacks. Not trying to put words in Bee's mouth, but the first sentence in ONirvana's post is MUCH more important/distressing than the last. And arguing over where/if Nassib will be drafted is just silly. Many more urgent issues to discuss.

You hit the nail on the head.

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A little birdie who has observed several practices told me.

Also told me that Broyld likes to put the ball on the carpet.

Like I said in another thread, Broyld is the new Mookie Jones. He jacks up a couple of meaningless 3 pointers in garbage time, and suddenly everyone thinks he should be playing 30 minutes a game.

Broyld will probably be a great player when all is said and done. Right now he's just a freshman struggling to pick up the playbook.
OK, let's say your "little birdie" is credible. Give him more carries. What was PTG's yards-per-carry yesterday? If AB doesn't rip that long run off for the TD maybe we are 1-5. He won't "learn the play book" if you keep nailing him to the bench.
 
I think people are missing the point of Bees' post. The point is not about Nassib being drafted. The point, IMO, is the previous statement - Amazing that coaches throughout the country these days can put up a gazillion points year after year with BUMS for Quarterbacks. Not trying to put words in Bee's mouth, but the first sentence in ONirvana's post is MUCH more important/distressing than the last. And arguing over where/if Nassib will be drafted is just silly. Many more urgent issues to discuss.


BUMS is a strong word and is over simplifying a complex issue. It appears as if you are using the word bum in place of non-nfl prospect, which could very well be true. A guy like Kellen Moore out of Boise could not cut it in the NFL because his lack or arm strength is compounded by his lack of ideal height and athleticism. Just because he didn't make it in the NFL does not mean he was a bum, as you and Bees are implying. He was incredibly adept at reading a defense and making the right throw at the right time. He also valued the ball.

Mike Leach is looked upon by most as an offensive genius, yet his team has struggled this year. His QB's have thrown 14 picks this year. Graham Harrell was a hell of a collegiate QB, as was Symons before him. Norm Chow looked great when he had guys like McMahon, Detmer, Leinhart, etc to play QB. He didn't look so good when he had a guy like Kevin Prince playing QB. Productive collegiate QB's typically are recruited for the right system, regardless of stars, etc. Now, if you want to argue that Marrone has failed because he has yet to find a recruit to unseat Nassib, that you can certainly make that argument. But to call these kids BUMS is plain silly and very uniformed. Two different arguments.
 
OK, let's say your "little birdie" is credible. Give him more carries. What was PTG's yards-per-carry yesterday? If AB doesn't rip that long run off for the TD maybe we are 1-5. He won't "learn the play book" if you keep nailing him to the bench.

You are the head coach of a team. You have a player who has struggled with pass protection all year long by missing blocks and reads, he also has a tendency put the ball on the carpet. You are playing a team that is blitz heavy and has a penchant for creating turnovers. Is this a good time to put him in?

Why not dig up Ernie Davis' corpse and runt he toss all day why we are at it?
 
But Chandler Jones always had NFL measurables so you knew he had a very good shot at getting drafted despite what the naysayers chirped about. While Nassib has a decent arm and has put up good numbers at SU, he's also not very athletic, clearly mistake-prone and he doesn't lead his team to the most important stat: victories. When I watch Nassib play, I see some talent there but I simply don't see an NFL QB.

How athletic are Tom Brady and Peyton Manning? Nassib has a cannon and is big enough to withstand NFL hits. That's the prerequisite that will get you in the NFL door (mid to late round pick). If Nassib had the other intangibles, he'd be a TOp 10 pick. But he doesn't, so he won't be drafted until later. But no question, he will be drafted because of his arm, his character and his book smarts.
 
You are the head coach of a team. You have a player who has struggled with pass protection all year long by missing blocks and reads, he also has a tendency put the ball on the carpet. You are playing a team that is blitz heavy and has a penchant for creating turnovers. Is this a good time to put him in?

Why not dig up Ernie Davis' corpse and runt he toss all day why we are at it?
If he's such a bad player, if he can't catch a pass, fumbles, and can't block, then red-shirt him and teach him. I know what I've seen in game situations and AB can help this team. Why didn't he play against Pitt? We had such an offensive juggernaut going in that game too.
 
BUMS is a strong word and is over simplifying a complex issue. It appears as if you are using the word bum in place of non-nfl prospect, which could very well be true. A guy like Kellen Moore out of Boise could not cut it in the NFL because his lack or arm strength is compounded by his lack of ideal height and athleticism. Just because he didn't make it in the NFL does not mean he was a bum, as you and Bees are implying. He was incredibly adept at reading a defense and making the right throw at the right time. He also valued the ball.

Mike Leach is looked upon by most as an offensive genius, yet his team has struggled this year. His QB's have thrown 14 picks this year. Graham Harrell was a hell of a collegiate QB, as was Symons before him. Norm Chow looked great when he had guys like McMahon, Detmer, Leinhart, etc to play QB. He didn't look so good when he had a guy like Kevin Prince playing QB. Productive collegiate QB's typically are recruited for the right system, regardless of stars, etc. Now, if you want to argue that Marrone has failed because he has yet to find a recruit to unseat Nassib, that you can certainly make that argument. But to call these kids BUMS is plain silly and very uniformed. Two different arguments.
Just to be clear, I was quoting orangenirvana's post. I wasn't calling anyone a bum, just agreeing with the fact that there are many teams out there scoring in bunches without NFL-caliber talent.
 
It's a lot easier for the coaches to adjust the scheme to suit the players as opposed to the players to adjust their ability to the scheme.
 
and return to a Marrone's traditional "multiple" offense with Nassib being under center more and bringing back the fullback and the I-formation.

While Marcus Sales has played very well, imho, Jerome Smith has been SU's most consistent offensive player, much more consistent than 5th year senior Ryan Nassib, the supposed centerpiece of our offense. While Smith may not be flashy or very electric, he runs hard and he consistently gains yards between the tackles. He deserves 20 carries a game. AB deserves more touches, and PTG needs a reduced role: strictly a 3rd down back. There needs to be a little more AAM sprinkled in the regular offense as well.

While Kobena has shown some flashes the truth of the matter is that our roster is devoid of any big time offensive weapons. But our most talented offensive player is Ashton Broyld, another tailback, not quarterback Ryan Nassib. So the SU offense should be more run-oriented, centered around our most consistent and talented players, both tailbacks, and not a hurry-up, pass happy offense centered around a pretty good but ultimately mistake-prone Nassib.

If there isn't a better quarterback option on the bench than Nassib, then he's probably better served being more of a game manger like he was in 2010 and not the trigger man of a pass heavy spread option attack. In a more smash-mouth attack, he would excel in play action like he did when he had DC3 pounding it between the tackles from deep in the 'I.' That's also how Temple beat UConn today.

The bottom line is that the less reliant this offense is on the capable but painfully inconsistent Nassib, the better off it will be. With the way this defense is playing right now, a bowl is still not out of the question. This team can still win six games but, imho, DM and Hackett need to rely less on Nassib's erratic play and adopt a more tailback-oriented, play action attack if they wanna gain bowl eligibility.

Uh, no.
 
BUMS is a strong word and is over simplifying a complex issue. It appears as if you are using the word bum in place of non-nfl prospect, which could very well be true. A guy like Kellen Moore out of Boise could not cut it in the NFL because his lack or arm strength is compounded by his lack of ideal height and athleticism. Just because he didn't make it in the NFL does not mean he was a bum, as you and Bees are implying. He was incredibly adept at reading a defense and making the right throw at the right time. He also valued the ball.

Mike Leach is looked upon by most as an offensive genius, yet his team has struggled this year. His QB's have thrown 14 picks this year. Graham Harrell was a hell of a collegiate QB, as was Symons before him. Norm Chow looked great when he had guys like McMahon, Detmer, Leinhart, etc to play QB. He didn't look so good when he had a guy like Kevin Prince playing QB. Productive collegiate QB's typically are recruited for the right system, regardless of stars, etc. Now, if you want to argue that Marrone has failed because he has yet to find a recruit to unseat Nassib, that you can certainly make that argument. But to call these kids BUMS is plain silly and very uniformed. Two different arguments.

I didn't use Bum. But the point is an awful lot of points are being scored today in college football with QB's less talented than Nassib.

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I didn't use Bum. But the point is an awful lot of points are being scored today in college football with QB's less talented than Nassib.

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Then we disagree on Nassib's talent level.
 
No, I've been pretty clear. It's the mentality that matters. We played urgent vs Northwestern. It lasted all of one game.

We stopped treating offensive plays as opportunities. Marrone loves to be content. Hey, he has three TOs and could maybe try to get the ball back before half time, but we're tied and getting the ball to start the second half, so we're good to concede the half. Hey, we can try to make a play for a 1st or a TD, but we can kick a field goal and take the lead so we're good.

Those are just the examples from this game. They aren't doing it my way.

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Also the game we threw long the most. At first I thought it was because NW was really bad DB wise but no one else has done it vs them like we did so why can't we try to get a play longer than 12/15 yards? Dink and dink down the field and since we have NO gamebreakers we have to make sure that no mistakes are made because the offense doesn't have the talent to overcome those. They can get 10 yards in 3 tries but not 15 or 20 in 3.
 
Then we disagree on Nassib's talent level.

What is so great about Nassib if you take away his strong arm? A strong arm is a nice sound bite, and maybe it's enough if you are surrounded by NFL talent. I'll take Troy Nunes as a senior over Nassib if that says anything. At least when Nunes was under duress what followed was usually entertaining if not productive. And Nunes was not afraid to take his share of hits.

We don't need the strongest arm - we need someone who has a feel for pressure and can extend plays with his footwork or with a nice completion here and there. Even when we had all-american skill players, we've relied on quarterbacks that can make other players look better.

On that note, then, it's possible we're just a play-making quarterback away from making things click. But then when haven't we said that in the past dozen years?
 
What is so great about Nassib if you take away his strong arm? A strong arm is a nice sound bite, and maybe it's enough if you are surrounded by NFL talent. I'll take Troy Nunes as a senior over Nassib if that says anything. At least when Nunes was under duress what followed was usually entertaining if not productive. And Nunes was not afraid to take his share of hits.

We don't need the strongest arm - we need someone who has a feel for pressure and can extend plays with his footwork or with a nice completion here and there. Even when we had all-american skill players, we've relied on quarterbacks that can make other players look better.

On that note, then, it's possible we're just a play-making quarterback away from making things click. But then when haven't we said that in the past dozen years?
Troy Nunes putting it together as a senior is a myth. He had a couple good games that were fun but overall, he stunk as a senior too.
 
Then we disagree on Nassib's talent level.

I guess so because I feel he is an above average QB.
 
I'd like to see how this spread thing would work with Moore at the back position.
 
Also the game we threw long the most. At first I thought it was because NW was really bad DB wise but no one else has done it vs them like we did so why can't we try to get a play longer than 12/15 yards? Dink and dink down the field and since we have NO gamebreakers we have to make sure that no mistakes are made because the offense doesn't have the talent to overcome those. They can get 10 yards in 3 tries but not 15 or 20 in 3.

The difference was Kobena. He is the only receiver save Clark (who probably can't get off the LOS in tight man coverage) who is a true deep threat. None of the others have the speed or leaping ability. The loss of Kobena was huge in my opinion. I thought he was really coming into his own. So, without a deep threat and without true play action you are going to have to dink and dunk down the field. That requires strings of completions that you need sure handed receivers for and an accurate QB. I'm not entirely sure we have either which leads me back to the question of what we are really doing on offense. You can say uh, no keep the spread but I think that continuing to use the spread fails to address to core problems on offense (lack of a deep threat, inconsistency from QB and receivers, dumb QB read option fakes when the QB is a threat to really break one for a 5 yard gain at most). Listen, I would be all for the spread if we had Geno Smith, or Kellen Moore, or hell even Troy Nunes. But we don't have a running QB. We have a pocket passer who in my opinion is a game manager. Maybe one is hiding out on the team somewhere (not talking about Broyld since I think that would be too much on him unless they became more committed to a package with him at QB for 2-3 series per game).
 
"None of the others have the speed or leaping ability."


Flemming has tremendous leaping ability, and made circus catches frequently in practice last season, yet he wasn't used. Hopefully when he's 100, the staff will find a way to use him.
 
The difference was Kobena. He is the only receiver save Clark (who probably can't get off the LOS in tight man coverage) who is a true deep threat. None of the others have the speed or leaping ability. The loss of Kobena was huge in my opinion. I thought he was really coming into his own. So, without a deep threat and without true play action you are going to have to dink and dunk down the field. That requires strings of completions that you need sure handed receivers for and an accurate QB. I'm not entirely sure we have either which leads me back to the question of what we are really doing on offense. You can say uh, no keep the spread but I think that continuing to use the spread fails to address to core problems on offense (lack of a deep threat, inconsistency from QB and receivers, dumb QB read option fakes when the QB is a threat to really break one for a 5 yard gain at most). Listen, I would be all for the spread if we had Geno Smith, or Kellen Moore, or hell even Troy Nunes. But we don't have a running QB. We have a pocket passer who in my opinion is a game manager. Maybe one is hiding out on the team somewhere (not talking about Broyld since I think that would be too much on him unless they became more committed to a package with him at QB for 2-3 series per game).

Kobena was playing well and starting to assert himself and to be honest I thought Clark was too...I really hope that that Cornelius kid is really fast for next year.

I think the staff has decided to do what they are going to do offensive package wise and not wait like they have been doing since Nassib has been the qb. It gets all the offense on the same page from here on but I get what you're saying, do what you can package wise with the current talent you have.
 

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