Tipping point. Benny’s privacy and other matters.

[Cuse12]

Imagine being AW and investing into the program just to have all the positive you’re doing just to have the program get soiled by the head coach. I know AW are friends, but JB isn’t making it easy for anyone.

It must be infuriating having to deal with an elderly man set in his rigid ways. It’s a lose lose scenario for the entire university. It’s so frustrating because NOT ONE business in America would allow an employee to run rampant like this. They would be given a severance package because the ROI of keeping this individual in our company isn’t there. The product isn’t as good, we recognize the work you’ve done, but you can’t keep living off your past stats. We have given him his grace holy heck. the world of college sports moves too quickly. And we are letting opportunities pass us by because we have a 78 year old coach who won’t leave.

Look at the stats. If we want to be mediocre and just okay to have fun, then keep him. If we want to compete for conference titles, and championships then you part ways.

 

[Brooky03]

At what point are people allowed to criticize the team? According to our coach you have to be super tall and at the game (tv isn’t allowed).

Why is this program not allowed to be criticized? I can see if it’s to protect the kids, but this lies on an almost 80 year old man, he isn’t a child. And the “kids”, they’re getting paid now, this isn’t rec ball.

What’s funny to me is, we’re not allowed to critique and criticize a team that we watch every game of and have for years, but when some other team or coach who nobody watches coach is an idiot there’s a 500 page topic with criticism.

I think there’s a difference between not being allowed to criticize and catching flak for beating a dead horse. After a while, it just gets tiring to listen to/read. It doesn’t serve any purpose other than being cathartic for the criticizer. I don’t know if the resident critics think their echo chamber of despair is falling on deaf ears or what.

I had an exhaust issue with my car. I complained about it a couple times when shooting the shiz with my co-worker. If I complained about it every day, I think it would have been fair for him to say, “enough about your broken car, dude! We know!” The fact that the car was still broken didn’t mean I needed to talk about how it was still broken.

This line of thought about not being ‘allowed’ to criticize reminds me of the free speech arguments you might hear from your surly uncle at Thanksgiving. “How come I’m not allowed to speak my mind? Don’t I have free speech?” Yeah, you have free speech; us saying to speak less because it’s annoying isn’t infringing on that right.

Telling people that half a decade of non-stop complaining is a bit much isn’t infringing on their right to complain.

 

[djcon57]

If we want to be mediocre and just okay to have fun, then keep him.

This is what they want. They let him start a semi decent Ivy League player for the whole year...AT SYRACUSE...we had a losing season and no one blinked, he came back the next year.

They've made their choice. They want to let JB go out on his terms...so...yeah. Just accept "ceiling = bubble" and be ok with it.

 

[Scooch]

No he didn't but it is what it is and he is what he is and this has been going on for a long tome and no one has made a big deal out of it.

I agree, he could have handled things in a much better way.

Point of order... I've been criticizing his churlish, douchey press conference behavior for years. It has long been an embarrassment to SU, and my understanding is that it was addressed within the past couple seasons.

He shouldn't be fired for it, that's preposterous. But he should cut the sch!t.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

He treated the adult reporter just how he treats other, local, adult reporters.
People seem to be up in arms because he is a “student reporter”. A whole lot of Snowflake projection going on.
JB is making this kid famous, and probably securing him a good first job, as the guy who got under Jim Boeheim’s skin.
JB could/should have been better, but honestly, this handwringing on this is a bit over the top.

 

[Orangezoo]

At what point are people allowed to criticize the team? According to our coach you have to be super tall and at the game (tv isn’t allowed).

Why is this program not allowed to be criticized? I can see if it’s to protect the kids, but this lies on an almost 80 year old man, he isn’t a child. And the “kids”, they’re getting paid now, this isn’t rec ball.

What’s funny to me is, we’re not allowed to critique and criticize a team that we watch every game of and have for years, but when some other team or coach who nobody watches coach is an idiot there’s a 500 page topic with criticism.

Much of the criticism is more recent over the past few years too. Just 3 years ago and there was much more optimism and positivity. This whole idea it's been a non stop whining session during the entire downturn is completely false.

Honestly the analytics year in year out now tell the story just as much. Taking issue with criticism is human but trying hard to constantly shut it down in an open discussion is nutty. The best way to shut it down is the program improving and having success. Otherwise we all care a great deal about it and want it to thrive. Those that are content with the last decade - by all means enjoy it- for many of us- there is not much joy in all this.

 

[Dave]

I'm not sure. I've had plenty of mud tossed my way for simply being more critical over the past couple years after forever primarily an optimist. The weather hasn't been good for a while. That said insinuating that a good chunk of us are Fairweather is silliness. I've got the receipts from games, being an alum, donations and support of the program. Having a dreary take or outlook right now is not remotely being fair weather.

Maybe so.

 

[OrangeAl]

It’s amazing how people do this in every aspect of life. Jim looked like an A**. Barstool ran a headline on it just absolutely tearing apart Boeheim and our team. It had 123k impressions on Twitter last night. AKA 123k people read that tweet alone. So down playing this is ridiculous, it was a valid question and Jim was looking to take out his frustrations on the first reporter he could. And he did it to a student ….. what a joke.

Every minute Jim B is our HC is a minute lost in regards to our program being “successful”. The ROI is not there. If you can’t see it, then you are delusional.

Ps - this has nothing to do with what he has done in his career. This comment has to do with present day.

Jim has had many, many times in his career when he's looked like an A** at a press conference. This isn't new or unusual for him.
On the other hand, this isn't a good look for a coach who has people hanging on every word and hoping to prove that he's lost "it."

 

[SuFTW]

The problem with reporters is that they feel they have the "right" to ask any question they want and get offended when they get no answer or not the answer they want. Then 1 answer is not enough, there is ALWAYS a follow up question. Yes JB can be snarky, rude but is he the bad guy for not answering especially after a(nother) disappointing lose. Maybe he is but is it worth multiple pages of observations and responses some of which are as equally snarky and rude.

Boeheim had stated before the game he would address the Williams situation after the game. It wasn’t some gotcha question or something from left field.

 

[DilemaCuse]

In the words of Andre Agassi in those early 90s commercials, "Image is everything"

JB is the image of the program and huge part of SU as he leads the flagship program (that of course he built on his work and success) of the University. SU bball is one of the first things that come to mind in association with the University. That along with Newhouse and alums Costas, Tirico, etc. the Dome, Ernie Davis, etc.

It is in the best interests to project a positive image. That press conference is not just to the 9 people in that press room. Today, a bad presser itself becomes news and can make the program and University look bad.

When it gets played on SVP Sportscenter and Barstool, Big Lead, Outkick, NY Post make it a news article, its a bad look. Compound that with the sad state of affairs on the court, reasonable people need to start asking, why are we keeping you here? Like I said, you can beat any repercussions when your winning 25+ games, but when your mediocre and average it becomes an issue.

I know opposing fans, and probably even media members behind the scenes, are laughing at this. This is how you make your program a joke, when there is no leadership to reign in a coach that's way past his prime and continues to make himself look bad. You got to start thinking big picture on this.

 

[hoopsupstate]

He treated the adult reporter just how he treats other, local, adult reporters.
People seem to be up in arms because he is a “student reporter”. A whole lot of Snowflake projection going on.
JB is making this kid famous, and probably securing him a good first job, as the guy who got under Jim Boeheim’s skin.
JB could/should have been better, but honestly, this handwringing on this is a bit over the top.

He’s been very disrespectful to Donna numerous times and is the same at times with Mike. He should be lucky to have those two covering the basketball program. They don’t come any better than them.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Agreed. I did not see anything either. It seemed to me he was short and disappointed, pissed off, not really in the mood for questions but he's the coach and has to answer questions at a presser after every game but over the years I have watched him and he will disregard you or not answer if he does not think your question is pertinent to the game. Over forty years of this - you'd better be ready.

Opnion: I feel the press likes to make, at times to get their copy read, bigger issues than they really are. The following is the best I can understand the beginning of the presser and the back and forth between the student reporter and Jim:

The student reporter asked "what's the status of Benny Williams?" Jim answered, "is that your question, that's your most important question you have, "He was not in school today... is that your most important question here?" Hard to make out the student reporters response about getting an answer. "I will answer it - your attitude isn't really that good either...softly chuckling. Benny took a personal day, he will be back at practice on Wednesday. That's it, we have that one question...that's typical in Syracuse, it is, it is... continued with other reporters.

What a bunch of namby pamby's taken aback by JB's reaction to the student reporters question. Jim is an honest, hard assed coach. Expecting less from him on a night like Monday is like staring at an alert rattlesnake. He answered the questions from the reporters genuinely and was cordial except for the beginning. At least he woke them up.

What is the purpose of JB asking the reporter if that was the most important question?

 

[Willy75]

Agreed. I did not see anything either. It seemed to me he was short and disappointed, pissed off, not really in the mood for questions but he's the coach and has to answer questions at a presser after every game but over the years I have watched him and he will disregard you or not answer if he does not think your question is pertinent to the game. Over forty years of this - you'd better be ready.

Opnion: I feel the press likes to make, at times to get their copy read, bigger issues than they really are. The following is the best I can understand the beginning of the presser and the back and forth between the student reporter and Jim:

The student reporter asked "what's the status of Benny Williams?" Jim answered, "is that your question, that's your most important question you have, "He was not in school today... is that your most important question here?" Hard to make out the student reporters response about getting an answer. "I will answer it - your attitude isn't really that good either...softly chuckling. Benny took a personal day, he will be back at practice on Wednesday. That's it, we have that one question...that's typical in Syracuse, it is, it is... continued with other reporters.

What a bunch of namby pamby's taken aback by JB's reaction to the student reporters question. Jim is an honest, hard assed coach. Expecting less from him on a night like Monday is like staring at an alert rattlesnake. He answered the questions from the reporters genuinely and was cordial except for the beginning. At least he woke them up.

He treated the adult reporter just how he treats other, local, adult reporters.
People seem to be up in arms because he is a “student reporter”. A whole lot of Snowflake projection going on.
JB is making this kid famous, and probably securing him a good first job, as the guy who got under Jim Boeheim’s skin.
JB could/should have been better, but honestly, this handwringing on this is a bit over the top.

His demeanor to the press has barely changed over 40 years. The only reason it’s “news” now is that it fits a narrative the media and some fans want to promote, that he’s a mean old man presiding over a fading program. Criticizing the results is fine, playing the narrative game is not.
As far as criticizing results, be prepared for pushback that the Last ten years of misery have included two Final Fours, an Elite Eight and a Sweet Sixteen, as well as five NBA first rounders and four second rounders. Perhaps folks would rather have UConn’s or GTown’s results over that period.

 

[Brooky03]

Jim has had many, many times in his career when he's looked like an A** at a press conference. This isn't new or unusual for him.
On the other hand, this isn't a good look for a coach who has people hanging on every word and hoping to prove that he's lost "it."

Dogs with a bone.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

His demeanor to the press has barely changed over 40 years. The only reason it’s “news” now is that it fits a narrative the media and some fans want to promote, that he’s a mean old man presiding over a fading program. Criticizing the results is fine, playing the narrative game is not.
As far as criticizing results, be prepared for pushback that the Last ten years of misery have included two Final Fours, an Elite Eight and a Sweet Sixteen, as well as five NBA first rounders and four second rounders. Perhaps folks would rather have UConn’s or GTown’s results over that period.

You mean a national championship? Yeah, I’d rather have that.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Boeheim had stated before the game he would address the Williams situation after the game. It wasn’t some gotcha question or something from left field.

Exacltly, and what is SID Peete Moore's role? Did he not notify JB about the press release before the game?? How for a Communications school, are these Comms so bad? Its like last year at ACCT after the FSU game where there is clear video Buddy sucker body punched an opponent.

JB goes right into the press conference, saying there was no punch, Lol! Notify him before the presser. Just incompetence.

 

[djcon57]

You mean a national championship? Yeah, I’d rather have that.

Last 10 years, assuming we are counting this year...

197-122, 1 Natty, 4 tourney apps (prob 5 this year)

196-127, 1 Final Four, 2 Sweet 16s, 5 tourney apps

Hmmmmmm...yeah

 

[DilemaCuse]

You mean a national championship? Yeah, I’d rather have that.

Thats right and Uconn had no problem firing Ollie, the coach that won that natty.

That natty didnt give him much equity, I guess.

 

[CuseBlock]

He treated the adult reporter just how he treats other, local, adult reporters.
People seem to be up in arms because he is a “student reporter”. A whole lot of Snowflake projection going on.
JB is making this kid famous, and probably securing him a good first job, as the guy who got under Jim Boeheim’s skin.
JB could/should have been better, but honestly, this handwringing on this is a bit over the top.

Rationalizing his behavior because he’s “making the student reporter famous” isn’t fair. Why can’t he have enough decency to treat these kids with a little respect? He’s literally never held accountable.

 

[Orangezoo]

His demeanor to the press has barely changed over 40 years. The only reason it’s “news” now is that it fits a narrative the media and some fans want to promote, that he’s a mean old man presiding over a fading program. Criticizing the results is fine, playing the narrative game is not.
As far as criticizing results, be prepared for pushback that the Last ten years of misery have included two Final Fours, an Elite Eight and a Sweet Sixteen, as well as five NBA first rounders and four second rounders. Perhaps folks would rather have UConn’s or GTown’s results over that period.

Post season runs were fun. They haven altered the trajectory either. Thankfully we snuck into the tourney each of those years. It's fair if that's the island you stand on. In the bigger picture it's the poorest decade by far since JB had the program from the beginning to the end. We are staring at 3 out of 4 years of no NCAAs and the one being one of the last teams in. At least that is a debate vs trolling those who criticize

 

[realorange]

I've been a SU basketball fan longer than many on this board have been alive. The life of this chat board in its many versions has been a great place to exchange thoughts about the program.

The big difference between 10 years ago and today is the way posters have chosen to make their comments. Is that a reflection of the program coming down from its heights or just the way people think today in expressing themselves?

This particular thread is one of the best discussions I've seen in a long time. No whining, screaming or uncouth thoughts that get by the admins. Just posters expressing their thoughts in a civil manner. A classic example of not what you say but how you say it.

Having said all that, the decision of what should happen with JB does need to be addressed soon and it needs to be done by JB himself. He is what he is and right or wrong many of us have appreciated what he has done and don't want to see it become mired in a sea of negative commentary.

 

[MDCuse]

Ny times and ny post are running Tweets with headline, boehiem lashes out at reporter, etc. It's becoming open season on Jim.

GOOD

 

[MDCuse]

Nobody is cheering for negative attention. At least from my perspective, it's time people see what Jim Boeheim is. He's always been a bit of a bully but it always got accepted because he was Jim and the program had been successful. Now, everyone is waking up to who he is and there is no glossing over it. There are countless examples of Jim belittling and insulting reporters, talking down to the fans etc.

LOL. People cheering for negative attention

 

[NineOneSeven]

I say again, that was by far the most obvious and relevant question. A player who started almost every game this year was not on the bench. Lol. It was easily the most important question.

Can’t believe that’s even debated right now.

 

[CuseBlock]

I've been a SU basketball fan longer than many on this board have been alive. The life of this chat board in its many versions has been a great place to exchange thoughts about the program.

The big difference between 10 years ago and today is the way posters have chosen to make their comments. Is that a reflection of the program coming down from its heights or just the way people think today in expressing themselves?

This particular thread is one of the best discussions I've seen in a long time. No whining, screaming or uncouth thoughts that get by the admins. Just posters expressing their thoughts in a civil manner. A classic example of not what you say but how you say it.

Having said all that, the decision of what should happen with JB does need to be addressed soon and it needs to be done by JB himself. He is what he is and right or wrong many of us have appreciated what he has done and don't want to see it become mired in a sea of negative commentary.

Well said. I think people just want answers. The writing is certainly on the wall