To be Announced Soon: Louisville to Add Lacrosse

[OrangeinBoston]

I'm a Louisville fan and thought I'd chime in with a few thoughts (as this topic interests me quite a bit)



UofL fully funds all of its athletic programs so its scholarship break down (at present) would look something like this

Men’s scholarships
Baseball = 11.7
Basketball = 13
Cross Country and Track and Field = 12.6
Football = 85
Golf = 4.5
Soccer = 9.9
Swimming and Diving = 10
Tennis = 4.5

Total = 151.2 (51.75% of all athletic scholarships)

Women’s scholarships
Basketball = 15
Cross Country and Track and Field = 18
Field Hockey = 12
Golf = 6
Lacrosse = 12
Rowing = 20
Soccer = 12
Softball = 12
Swimming and Diving = 14
Tennis = 8
Volleyball =12

Total = 141 (48.25% of all athletic scholarships )

Right now, UofL is compliant with all three areas of Title IX (participation, treatment, financial assistance). If UofL did decide to sponsor men's lacrosse, that would add 12.6 scholarships to the men's side and swing the men's scholarship percentages up to 53.75%. That might be enough of a bump to move UofL out of compliance with Title IX (I say might because figuring out if a school is compliant or not is a complex process and involves a lot of gray areas; e.g. what's considered "substantially proportionate").

If Louisville is required to sponsor a new women's sport to maintain gender equity, then things get a bit more complicated. Cost is always a concern when adding multiple new programs, though I don't think that that will be the main issue (the athletic department already has a very healthy revenue stream at present andthings will only get better with the move to the ACC). The biggest issue in my opinion is the fact that Louisville already competes in all of the women’s sports currently sponsored by the ACC. This means that any women's program added by UofL might be forced to find a conference home outside of the ACC (something that Jurich is not very keen on doing).

One potential solution to this issue might be to sponsor women's gymnastics. NCAA bylaws state that at least four institutions must sponsor gymnastics in order for a conference to hold a conference championship event. The ACC had planned to sponsor women's gymnastics as a 4 member conference sport but with Maryland leaving and only three potential member remaining (Pitt, UNC, and NC State), those plans were put on hold. If UofL had to add a women's sport to balance out the addition of a men's lacrosse team, then sponsoring women's gymnastics would not only keep UofL Title IX compliant but would also help the conference out as well.

With that said, I'm not sure how big of an issue Title IX will actually be. If you compare UofL's athletic department to UNC's, you'll find that UNC sponsors three more men's programs (lacrosse, fencing, and wrestling) than UofL but only two more women's program (fencing and gymnastics). Additionally, women make up a higher % of UNC's student population (58%) than they do of UofL's (52%). These two things lead me to believe that UofL might be able to add men's lacrosse only without having to worry about adding a corresponding women's sport.

Question: Can a school that is in a situation envisaged by the above poster become compliant by simply adding scholarships in existing women's programs? That would seem to be the easiest way to solve the problem if, as it would be in this case, scholarships are not massively out of whack.

 

[UofLgrad07]

Women's Lax stadium is pretty nice with seating for 1000 plus standing room. I'm thinking men's lines would be added and they would play there.
http://www.gocards.com/facilities/lou-facilities-lacrosse-stadium.html

Agree with you Mark. Bellarmine* averaged 557 fans this past season so the current stadium should be big enough for a UofL start-up team. The only real issue with the current stadium is that is literally has no room for expansion (it is hemmed in by the basketball practice facility, Floyd St, and two high use railroad lines).

*Bellarmine is a catholic university in Louisville. They are D-I in lacrosse and D-II in everything else.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Question: Can a school that is in a situation envisaged by the above poster become compliant by simply adding scholarships in existing women's programs? That would seem to be the easiest way to solve the problem if, as it would be in this case, scholarships are not massively out of whack.

Not if Louisville already fully funds all of its' Women's programs to the NCAA limit.

 

[orange79]

I'm a Louisville fan and thought I'd chime in with a few thoughts (as this topic interests me quite a bit)



UofL fully funds all of its athletic programs so its scholarship break down (at present) would look something like this

Men’s scholarships
Baseball = 11.7
Basketball = 13
Cross Country and Track and Field = 12.6
Football = 85
Golf = 4.5
Soccer = 9.9
Swimming and Diving = 10
Tennis = 4.5

Total = 151.2 (51.75% of all athletic scholarships)

Women’s scholarships
Basketball = 15
Cross Country and Track and Field = 18
Field Hockey = 12
Golf = 6
Lacrosse = 12
Rowing = 20
Soccer = 12
Softball = 12
Swimming and Diving = 14
Tennis = 8
Volleyball =12

Total = 141 (48.25% of all athletic scholarships )

Right now, UofL is compliant with all three areas of Title IX (participation, treatment, financial assistance). If UofL did decide to sponsor men's lacrosse, that would add 12.6 scholarships to the men's side and swing the men's scholarship percentages up to 53.75%. That might be enough of a bump to move UofL out of compliance with Title IX (I say might because figuring out if a school is compliant or not is a complex process and involves a lot of gray areas; e.g. what's considered "substantially proportionate").

If Louisville is required to sponsor a new women's sport to maintain gender equity, then things get a bit more complicated. Cost is always a concern when adding multiple new programs, though I don't think that that will be the main issue (the athletic department already has a very healthy revenue stream at present andthings will only get better with the move to the ACC). The biggest issue in my opinion is the fact that Louisville already competes in all of the women’s sports currently sponsored by the ACC. This means that any women's program added by UofL might be forced to find a conference home outside of the ACC (something that Jurich is not very keen on doing).

One potential solution to this issue might be to sponsor women's gymnastics. NCAA bylaws state that at least four institutions must sponsor gymnastics in order for a conference to hold a conference championship event. The ACC had planned to sponsor women's gymnastics as a 4 member conference sport but with Maryland leaving and only three potential member remaining (Pitt, UNC, and NC State), those plans were put on hold. If UofL had to add a women's sport to balance out the addition of a men's lacrosse team, then sponsoring women's gymnastics would not only keep UofL Title IX compliant but would also help the conference out as well.

With that said, I'm not sure how big of an issue Title IX will actually be. If you compare UofL's athletic department to UNC's, you'll find that UNC sponsors three more men's programs (lacrosse, fencing, and wrestling) than UofL but only two more women's program (fencing and gymnastics). Additionally, women make up a higher % of UNC's student population (58%) than they do of UofL's (52%). These two things lead me to believe that UofL might be able to add men's lacrosse only without having to worry about adding a corresponding women's sport.

So, be like WFVU and add Women's Rifle How expensive could that be?

 

[TexanMark]

Agree with you Mark. Bellarmine* averaged 557 fans this past season so the current stadium should be big enough for a UofL start-up team. The only real issue with the current stadium is that is literally has no room for expansion (it is hemmed in by the basketball practice facility, Floyd St, and two high use railroad lines).

*Bellarmine is a catholic university in Louisville. They are D-I in lacrosse and D-II in everything else.

Welcome to the board. Thanks for the updates. Guys UofLgrad07 is one of the better posters over at csnbbs.com

Speaking of women's gymnastics that is a sport I think SU should add too. If marketed correctly it actually can draw 1000's of paying customers. Look at the SEC.

 

[midloviking]

So, be like WFVU and add Women's Rifle How expensive could that be?

ammo is tough to come by these days.

 

[orangefog]

Welcome to the board. Thanks for the updates. Guys UofLgrad07 is one of the better posters over at csnbbs.com

Speaking of women's gymnastics that is a sport I think SU should add too. If marketed correctly it actually can draw 1000's of paying customers. Look at the SEC.

My daughter will be ready in the high school class of 2022, although her dream school at this point is UCLA.

 

[UofLgrad07]

So, be like WFVU and add Women's Rifle. How expensive could that be?

Two points:

1) No one wants to be like WVU.

2) The major problem with sponsoring a rifle team is that the NCAA allows only 3.6 scholarships for a coed rifle program. That might not be enough to make up for an additional 12.6 scholarships for men's lax. There are similar issues with NCAA fencing (5 scholarships) and bowling (5 scholarships). On the flip side, women's gymnastics has a 12 scholarship limit and would almost perfectly balance out the addition of men's lacrosse. In addition, we know that the ACC was interested in sponsoring women's gymnastics as a conference sport so there is an additional benefit there).

This all assumes though that UofL would be required to add a women's sport to balance out the addition of a men's sport (something it may or may not actually have to do).

 

[UofLgrad07]

I am sure they will find away but I have serious doubts they w2ill be successful very quickly, its one thing to start a Mens Div 1 team, its a whole other thing to be good at it.

I have to agree with Jeremy on this one. I have faith that Jurich will hire a great coach and give the program all the resources it needs to be successful, but starting up a new varsity program is always rough for the first few years (particularly since Louisville isn't exactly a lacrosse hotbed). On top of that, the ACC is going to be an absolutely brutal lacrosse league and it is going to be a tough row to hoe for a start-up UofL program.

 

[orange79]

Two points:

1) No one wants to be like WVU.

You didn't need to go any further that this.

 

[outoftownie]

The best way to start a program is from scratch, can't go the route of Michigan and promote the club team and club coach. If I were a recruit, I would rather play for a big name assistant or proven head coach over a proven club coach. I know the guy at Michigan was instrumental at getting the program elevated, but I think he is in over his head as a head D1 coach. I could see Lville getting a top D1 coach to make the move starting up a new program.

It is funny that in women's lacrosse you can start a team and compete for titles in a handful of years but it has not been done in the men's game yet. I think a school like Lville could make it happen with the right moves.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I have to agree with Jeremy on this one. I have faith that Jurich will hire a great coach and give the program all the resources it needs to be successful, but starting up a new varsity program is always rough for the first few years (particularly since Louisville isn't exactly a lacrosse hotbed). On top of that, the ACC is going to be an absolutely brutal lacrosse league and it is going to be a tough row to hoe for a start-up UofL program.

I think you nailed it as well, your location and the conference make a start up team for Lacrosse even more difficult then it would be for say a Michigan/Marquette etc. I still think Lville can eventually field a competitive team as they appear to be pretty successful at most major mens programs, at least the ones most people follow Bball, football, (baseball ?). As I noted before Michigan started a full Div 1 schedule this year after a ton of success as a club program the past decade and didnt even win a game. Its a tough road to go down and as we have both noted, starting out in the ACC is like starting a new Div 1 football program joining the SEC.

Still I will be interested to see how Lville handles it and who they get to coach. My biggest concern would be recruiting, the Lax hot beds are all pretty much in the NE even though Lacross is expanding across the country, the NY,NJ, Long Island, Maryland areas are still by far the best recruiting grounds. With the traditional powers like Syracuse, UVA, Hopkins, Maryland and a few others doubling down on recruiting due to the new additions to D1 and some of them having down years its going to be very tough compete at the top level without a lot of patience. Sounds though like you really get it so hopefully your fellow LVille fans will as well.

 

[tbonezone]

luhville luhcrosse. hope we score 50.