To those that say recruiting has not fallen off...

[SWC75]

I give you a little bit of background on Top 100 recruits we have taken in over the last 15 years...I understand rankings aren't perfect, but in basketball you get a better idea than you do with football, IMO, just due to tapes being available and the AAU circuit allowing comparisons that couldn't be made in football.

2005 - Eric Devendorf #33 (McD), Arinze Onuaku (#201)
2006 - Paul Harris #12, Mike Jones #38, Devin Brennan-McBride (#157)
2007 - Donte Greene #7 (#17 ESPN) (McD), Jonny Flynn #18 (#23 ESPN) (McD), Scoop Jardine #53 (#48 ESPN), Rick Jackson #65 (#51 ESPN), Kristof Ongenaet (#279), Sean Williams (#284)
2008 - Mookie Jones #43 (#67 ESPN), Kris Joseph #58 (#50 ESPN)
2009 - DaShonte Riley #87 (#58 ESPN), Brandon Triche (#122)
2010 - Fab Melo #14 (#14 ESPN) (McD), Dion Waiters #21 (#15 ESPN), C.J. Fair #81 (#63 ESPN), Baye Moussa Keita (#146)
2011 - Rakeem Christmas #23 (#20 ESPN) (McD), Michael Carter Williams #26 (#21 ESPN) (McD), Trevor Cooney #61 ESPN (#105)
2012 - Dajuan Coleman #22 (#14 ESPN) (McD), Jerami Grant #48 (#37 ESPN)
2013 - Tyler Ennis #23 (#20 ESPN), Tyler Roberson #41 (#31 ESPN), B.J. Johnson #89 (#82 ESPN), Ron Patterson (#175)
2014 - Chris McCullough #21 (#24 ESPN), Kaleb Joseph #48 (#50 ESPN)
2015 - Malachi Richardson #34 (#23 ESPN) (McD), Tyler Lydon #72 (#76 ESPN), Frank Howard #79 (#94 ESPN)
2016 - Tyus Battle #34 (#35 ESPN), Matt Moyer #66 (#74 ESPN), Taurean Thompson #74 (#75 ESPN)
2017 - Marek Dolezaj (#111, SLO), Oshae Brissett (#137, CAN), Bourama Sidibe (#190), Howard Washington (#289)
2018 - Jalen Carey #61 (#38 ESPN), Robert Braswell (#152), Buddy Boeheim (#347)
2019 - Brycen Goodine #93 (#75 ESPN), Quincy Guerrier (#114, CAN), Joe Girard (#205), Jon Bol Ajak (#404)

These rankings are using 24 7 & ESPN -- I know other sites may see things a bit differently, but to be consistent I used the same sites.

Over the past 3 years, we have had ZERO Consensus Top 50 recruits make it to campus, according to these site. Not all Top 50 guys make it -- look at Joseph & Roberson -- but certainly it gives you a better chance to make it than if you aren't. You can argue Brissett and Guerrier are Top 50 caliber, but the fact of the matter is they aren't.

Can you blame sanctions? Sure you can. But all of the guys that we have whiffed on? I don't think that's true at all.

I'm trying to picture a game between:

TEAM A
Dashonte Riley #87
Taurean Thompson #74
Matt Moyer #66
Mookie Jones #43
Kalen Joseph #48

and

TEAM B
Arinze Onuaku #201
Ohsae Brissett #137
Marek Dolezaj #111
Buddy Boeheim #347
Brandon Triche #122

Yeah, I cherry-picked them but the point still holds. These ratings are a snapshot taken of these players at a specific point in their careers by 'experts' who see and rate hundreds of players. They don't know as much about them as the coaches who are focused on them because they have decided to recruit them. A better evaltuation would be: how many of these guys were the coach's #1 choice: how often did they have to settle for a 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice? And better than that: how did they actually perform in their careers here?

 

[SUFan44]

I'm trying to picture a game between:

TEAM A
Dashonte Riley #87
Taurean Thompson #74
Matt Moyer #66
Mookie Jones #43
Kalen Joseph #48

and

TEAM B
Arinze Onuaku #201
Ohsae Brissett #137
Marek Dolezaj #111
Buddy Boeheim #347
Brandon Triche #122

Yeah, I cherry-picked them but the point still holds. These ratings are a snapshot taken of these players at a specific point in their careers by 'experts' who see and rate hundreds of players. They don't know as much about them as the coaches who are focused on them because they have decided to recruit them. A better evaltuation would be: how many of these guys were the coach's #1 choice: how often did they have to settle for a 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice? And better than that: how did they actually perform in their careers here?

Does it, though? You cherry picked the best and worst scenarios. My point is it is trending downwards. Also, none of those guys are Top 40 in your top list. We haven't had a Top 40 guy since Battle. He's currently a junior.

 

[SWC75]

Does it, though? You cherry picked the best and worst scenarios. My point is it is trending downwards. Also, none of those guys are Top 40 in your top list. We haven't had a Top 40 guy since Battle. He's currently a junior.

I'm not sure what "Does it though?" means. And I admitted I cherry-picked. You might want to re-read my last paragraph. It's not about top 40 high school players. it's about good college basketball players.

 

[SUFan44]

I'm not sure what "Does it though?" means. And I admitted I cherry-picked. You might want to re-read my last paragraph. It's not about top 40 high school players. it's about good college basketball players.

Your point doesn't hold since you cherry picked. I could cherry pick a ton of things. We need better players. Period. And the most likely way to get better players is not to get under-the-radar talent. Especially in basketball, where everyone has video.

 

[SWC75]

Your point doesn't hold since you cherry picked. I could cherry pick a ton of things. We need better players. Period. And the most likely way to get better players is not to get under-the-radar talent. Especially in basketball, where everyone has video.

The fact that there were cherries to pick was my point. More than a few. Again, the coaches know more about these guys than the star raters do. if they are getting the guys they want, we should be OK. This year's team had beaten Duke, almost repeated it, given UNC all they could handle. We've made a Final Four and nearly got to an Elite 8 in recent years. I'll trust their judgement. You've already dismissed the next class because of their star ratings and we haven't even seen them play yet.

 

[kcsu]

Obviously something isn't working when we offer 5 centers wiff on all of them. Each of the 5 would either have started or played significant minutes given the fact our depth chart at center next year has one true 5 who doesn't see but spot minutes and has chronic Tendonitis. Not being able to land a kid given these facts is unreal.

 

[Sherman20]

Does it, though? You cherry picked the best and worst scenarios. My point is it is trending downwards. Also, none of those guys are Top 40 in your top list. We haven't had a Top 40 guy since Battle. He's currently a junior.

Jalen Carey is a top 50 recruit, so is Quincy, and so was Oshae. The two Canadians don’t get evaluated by ESPN because they go to high school outside the US. That drags down their composite rating on 2 4 7. But their 2 4 7 internal evaluator rating is basically top 50.

 

[SU Dreaming]

No idea. As I said, I’m sure that even if SU Dreaming does know, he’s only sharing what supports his agenda.

dude you know nothing about me, so i will call your agenda comment fake news

i do not have an agenda, but i do have information, a very steady flow of it and I am looking ahead, we have major headwinds against us

we had 2 kids up for the duke game, do not count QG or JGIII, they are signed players for next season

since 2010, while we did not sign every player we wanted (who did), we have had no issue getting top 25 kids on campus - no issue - the list of potential players to visit is just unbelievable, even for the 2019 class the recruiting visits have been outstanding (players)

the 2 kids up for the duke game are ranked where?

are you hearing much on the board or on the internet about recruiting for next season? details?

are we out visiting players during the season like other programs? visiting with top 50 talent?

bottom line is - we are in big trouble regarding recruiting starting with the 20 class and it clearly showed for the Duke game

do you know why we are in big trouble?

we cannot afford to go thru another retirement tour w/ JB. 2020 kids are all asking who is going to be the HC, they are asking when is JB leaving, our competition is doing exactly what they did after JB announced he was retiring after xyz season.

even though hop was the next coach, b/c he did not have a track record as a HC, it was a problem for us, a big problem

if you notice, we did sign big-time players for 2018 and 2019 - at least according to the rankings- that's b/c our staff and the families knew JB was here thru Buddy graduation

looking at it from other angle - no coach can say with 100% certainty he will be the HC from 2020 to 2024, however how many coaches besides JB know they are hanging it up when their son graduates? Can't include blue bloods like Duke & UNC, they are at a different level and have unlimited budgets


Now this ......here is really what my concern is - $$$
i have said it on here many times, JB has given us a huge discount for the past let's say 19-20 years (2000), JB took a discount between $30,000,000.00 & $65,000,000.00.

there was a recent article where we were ranked #10 for the past xyz years in college basketball - in front of many many other big programs, i am willing to be JB is one of the lowest paid coaches peer to peer

i like gmac & red, but i feel strongly that whomever replaces jb has to have hc experience and hopefully a resume of success (it can be a short resume)

USA TODAY Sports
JB #43,

NCAA College Basketball Coaches Salaries - How Much Do Top Guys Make?
look at how many coaches are in front of him and how many of them you would not want to be our coach

yet we are top 10 basketball program in the country the past x amount of years
yet we have to be top 10 kids getting drafted nba

How many other big-time coaches are taking this discount? None.

Is the school prepared to spend $ per year to bring in a big-time HC?

The 27 Highest-Paid College Basketball Coaches in 2018

College Basketball Coaches Salaries


Syracuse Basketball: Jim Boeheim Is A Bargain


Yet we are top 10 basketball program in the country the past x amount of years
yet we have to be top 10 kids getting drafted nba

How many other big-time coaches are taking this discount? None.

Is the school prepared to spend the $ to bring in a big-time HC?

Basketball has basically carried the entire athletics department forever, until Dino turned us around, it is a money making machine, one of the most well known global brands in college basketball, school has to step up, but before they even do, where will the program be?

bottom line - we are in trouble re recruiting and it is all about the unknown future

 

[moqui]

Ok but after patiently waiting 20 years and promised the job only to have it change at the 12th hour i would imagine he would respectively pass.

you leave out the part where he was ready to bolt for the usc job if pat haden hadn't made the wrong choice

 

[SU Dreaming]

re duke game - THE game of the year - everyone has been talking about it for 6 plus months
our 2 recruits, " i will def. keep syracuse in mind as i get closer to decision time"
look at the other schools recruiting them, i am sure they will be good players, but come on

and as great of an athlete that Andre is, he can't shoot

Camden Loves Carrier Dome Atmosphere on Syracuse Visit

Four Star 2020 Forward Has Great Syracuse Visit

 

[OrangeDW]

dude you know nothing about me, so i will call your agenda comment fake news

i do not have an agenda, but i do have information, a very steady flow of it and I am looking ahead, we have major headwinds against us

we had 2 kids up for the duke game, do not count QG or JGIII, they are signed players for next season

since 2010, while we did not sign every player we wanted (who did), we have had no issue getting top 25 kids on campus - no issue - the list of potential players to visit is just unbelievable, even for the 2019 class the recruiting visits have been outstanding (players)

the 2 kids up for the duke game are ranked where?

are you hearing much on the board or on the internet about recruiting for next season? details?

are we out visiting players during the season like other programs? visiting with top 50 talent?

bottom line is - we are in big trouble regarding recruiting starting with the 20 class and it clearly showed for the Duke game

do you know why we are in big trouble?

we cannot afford to go thru another retirement tour w/ JB. 2020 kids are all asking who is going to be the HC, they are asking when is JB leaving, our competition is doing exactly what they did after JB announced he was retiring after xyz season.

even though hop was the next coach, b/c he did not have a track record as a HC, it was a problem for us, a big problem

if you notice, we did sign big-time players for 2018 and 2019 - at least according to the rankings- that's b/c our staff and the families knew JB was here thru Buddy graduation

looking at it from other angle - no coach can say with 100% certainty he will be the HC from 2020 to 2024, however how many coaches besides JB know they are hanging it up when their son graduates? Can't include blue bloods like Duke & UNC, they are at a different level and have unlimited budgets


Now this ...here is really what my concern is - $$$
i have said it on here many times, JB has given us a huge discount for the past let's say 19-20 years (2000), JB took a discount between $30,000,000.00 & $65,000,000.00.

there was a recent article where we were ranked #10 for the past xyz years in college basketball - in front of many many other big programs, i am willing to be JB is one of the lowest paid coaches peer to peer

i like gmac & red, but i feel strongly that whomever replaces jb has to have hc experience and hopefully a resume of success (it can be a short resume)

USA TODAY Sports
JB #43,

NCAA College Basketball Coaches Salaries - How Much Do Top Guys Make?
look at how many coaches are in front of him and how many of them you would not want to be our coach

yet we are top 10 basketball program in the country the past x amount of years
yet we have to be top 10 kids getting drafted nba

How many other big-time coaches are taking this discount? None.

Is the school prepared to spend $ per year to bring in a big-time HC?

The 27 Highest-Paid College Basketball Coaches in 2018

College Basketball Coaches Salaries


Syracuse Basketball: Jim Boeheim Is A Bargain


Yet we are top 10 basketball program in the country the past x amount of years
yet we have to be top 10 kids getting drafted nba

How many other big-time coaches are taking this discount? None.

Is the school prepared to spend the $ to bring in a big-time HC?

Basketball has basically carried the entire athletics department forever, until Dino turned us around, it is a money making machine, one of the most well known global brands in college basketball, school has to step up, but before they even do, where will the program be?

bottom line - we are in trouble re recruiting and it is all about the unknown future

A little context, when I wrote that post it was on a day where you had made a flurry of posts...every single one of them negative and complaining about something. And not all were about recruiting either. From my perspective, it was just one big gripe fest. Makes it feel like an agenda. We have a pretty good team this year and we could be good next year too.

A few things:

We have one junior on the team. Perhaps some of these recruits see there not being a lot of room at the inn. At this point how many kids are we even looking to bring in for 2020-21? As it stands we’ll have Brissett, Marek, Sidibe, Hughes, and Washington as seniors. Buddy, Carey, and Braswell as juniors. And Girard, Goodine, Guerrier, and Ajak as sophomores. That’s 12.

We’ve brought in classes of 2 kids before, and it wasn’t a sign that we were screwed as a program.

Also, was Duke a prime weekend typically? I’m talking about in terms of the time it happened at. Sectional playoffs going on in NYS at the time. Is there any real pattern to when the games fall that we typically bring our highest number of recruits to?

Is it typical to have more than 2 recruits in a class up to a game at a time?

 

[Sherman20]

dude you know nothing about me, so i will call your agenda comment fake news

i do not have an agenda, but i do have information, a very steady flow of it and I am looking ahead, we have major headwinds against us

we had 2 kids up for the duke game, do not count QG or JGIII, they are signed players for next season

since 2010, while we did not sign every player we wanted (who did), we have had no issue getting top 25 kids on campus - no issue - the list of potential players to visit is just unbelievable, even for the 2019 class the recruiting visits have been outstanding (players)

the 2 kids up for the duke game are ranked where?

are you hearing much on the board or on the internet about recruiting for next season? details?

are we out visiting players during the season like other programs? visiting with top 50 talent?

bottom line is - we are in big trouble regarding recruiting starting with the 20 class and it clearly showed for the Duke game

do you know why we are in big trouble?

we cannot afford to go thru another retirement tour w/ JB. 2020 kids are all asking who is going to be the HC, they are asking when is JB leaving, our competition is doing exactly what they did after JB announced he was retiring after xyz season.

even though hop was the next coach, b/c he did not have a track record as a HC, it was a problem for us, a big problem

if you notice, we did sign big-time players for 2018 and 2019 - at least according to the rankings- that's b/c our staff and the families knew JB was here thru Buddy graduation

looking at it from other angle - no coach can say with 100% certainty he will be the HC from 2020 to 2024, however how many coaches besides JB know they are hanging it up when their son graduates? Can't include blue bloods like Duke & UNC, they are at a different level and have unlimited budgets


Now this ...here is really what my concern is - $$$
i have said it on here many times, JB has given us a huge discount for the past let's say 19-20 years (2000), JB took a discount between $30,000,000.00 & $65,000,000.00.

there was a recent article where we were ranked #10 for the past xyz years in college basketball - in front of many many other big programs, i am willing to be JB is one of the lowest paid coaches peer to peer

i like gmac & red, but i feel strongly that whomever replaces jb has to have hc experience and hopefully a resume of success (it can be a short resume)

USA TODAY Sports
JB #43,

NCAA College Basketball Coaches Salaries - How Much Do Top Guys Make?
look at how many coaches are in front of him and how many of them you would not want to be our coach

yet we are top 10 basketball program in the country the past x amount of years
yet we have to be top 10 kids getting drafted nba

How many other big-time coaches are taking this discount? None.

Is the school prepared to spend $ per year to bring in a big-time HC?

The 27 Highest-Paid College Basketball Coaches in 2018

College Basketball Coaches Salaries


Syracuse Basketball: Jim Boeheim Is A Bargain


Yet we are top 10 basketball program in the country the past x amount of years
yet we have to be top 10 kids getting drafted nba

How many other big-time coaches are taking this discount? None.

Is the school prepared to spend the $ to bring in a big-time HC?

Basketball has basically carried the entire athletics department forever, until Dino turned us around, it is a money making machine, one of the most well known global brands in college basketball, school has to step up, but before they even do, where will the program be?

bottom line - we are in trouble re recruiting and it is all about the unknown future

Wildhack has boosted JB’s salary over the past few years. I believe he’s in the top 20 now. He knows he’s gonna need to pay market rates for the next coach, so he’s prepping the university for that reality.

I don’t know where you get your info from or if it’s legit or you’re just reading tea leaves. But I’ve read your pronouncements with skepticism ever since you posted that JB’s in-home visit with Jalen Carey was going well “so far” while they were in the middle of the visit that afternoon. madness. Unless you’re Red, JB, GMac, Griff or maybe Kip Wellman, how could you possibly know that? the coaches aren’t texting your supposed sources updates in the middle of their visit/presentation. I just really question your credibility. Im not saying that SU isn't facing issues in recruiting with JB’s advancing by age. Of course they are. BUT JB has insisted he will coach as long as he can be successful.

 

[Cuse1055]

I’m not worried about the University, the athletic department in particular, paying for the next basketball coach. Wildhack is a smart man and knows how important the basketball program is to the school as well as the whole city.

 

[OrangeDW]

Wildhack has boosted JB’s salary over the past few years. I believe he’s in the top 20 now. He knows he’s gonna need to pay market rates for the next coach, so he’s prepping the university for that reality.

I don’t know where you get your info from or if it’s legit or you’re just reading tea leaves. But I’ve read your pronouncements with skepticism ever since you posted that JB’s in-home visit with Jalen Carey was going well “so far” while they were in the middle of the visit that afternoon. madness. Unless you’re Red, JB, GMac, Griff or maybe Kip Wellman, how could you possibly know that? the coaches aren’t texting your supposed sources updates in the middle of their visit/presentation. I just really question your credibility. Im not saying that SU isn't facing issues in recruiting with JB’s advancing by age. Of course they are. BUT JB has insisted he will coach as long as he can be successful.

He went nuts over Carey not playing, said he should be playing 30 minutes and “he will leave”.

I know this...he should NOT be playing 30 minutes. So...credibility? Eh.

We’ll see if he leaves.

The whole Tyler Roberson stuff he was posting...no agenda? Jury’s out on that one, as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Sherman20]

He went nuts over Carey not playing, said he should be playing 30 minutes and “he will leave”.

I know this...he should NOT be playing 30 minutes. So...credibility? Eh.

We’ll see if he leaves.

The whole Tyler Roberson stuff he was posting...no agenda? Jury’s out on that one, as far as I’m concerned.

Jalen isn’t going anywhere. He’ll have a great chance to start at PG next year. And as you say, he has lots of work to do in the offseason.

 

[moqui]

He went nuts over Carey not playing, said he should be playing 30 minutes and “he will leave”.

I know this...he should NOT be playing 30 minutes. So...credibility? Eh.

We’ll see if he leaves.

The whole Tyler Roberson stuff he was posting...no agenda? Jury’s out on that one, as far as I’m concerned.

that whole string was an epic tantrum

 

[dasher]

Noah Collier and Andre Jackson are both top 60 players.

 

[Cuse1055]

Saw Collier is on an official at UConn. Has he talked about an official here?

 

[moqui]

Jalen Carey is a top 50 recruit, so is Quincy, and so was Oshae. The two Canadians don’t get evaluated by ESPN because they go to high school outside the US. That drags down their composite rating on 2 4 7. But their 2 4 7 internal evaluator rating is basically top 50.

i think events on the court have proven that marek was the equivalent of a 4 star recruit, too. he's outperforming, for example, hameir wright

 

[OrangeDW]

i think events on the court have proven that marek was the equivalent of a 4 star recruit, too. he's outperforming, for example, hameir wright

Yup. For all the handwringing the last couple years about recruiting, I like our freshman and sophomore classes a lot. Big picture, the problem is we only have 1 Junior. And that type of thing won’t be a problem going forward. We’ll have depth and 3-4 guys per class again real soon.

Now we need to get the next sure fire NBA guy that will actually be good while in college...like a Melo or Flynn, to really put us over the top.

 

[moqui]

Yup. For all the handwringing the last couple years about recruiting, I like our freshman and sophomore classes a lot. Big picture, the problem is we only have 1 Junior. And that type of thing won’t be a problem going forward. We’ll have depth and 3-4 guys per class again real soon.

Now we need to get the next sure fire NBA guy that will actually be good while in college...like a Melo or Flynn, to really put us over the top.

yes. and we can add elijah hughes to this category, too: despite what the ranking services said, his play on the court has identified him as a high-4 star player. he's a sophomore in elibility, so our soph class of oshae, eli and marek has kind of exposed the fallacy of the star ranking system, imo.

the only disappointment in that class is bourama, and i believe that is injury related, not talent

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

UIKEYINPUTRIGHTARROW

Agree 100%, on both counts.

Our development has been hurt by guys leaving early, putting guys on the floor before they are ready

 

[kcsu]

We might recruit better if JB would actually visit some recruits, actually travel more than within a few hour radius of Syracuse. Jim needs to step down from the hill, get engaged and work his arse off again if he wants to land elite players.

 

[SUFan44]

We might recruit better if JB would actually visit some recruits, actually travel more than within a few hour radius of Syracuse. Jim needs to step down from the hill, get engaged and work his arse off again if he wants to land elite players.

Honest question: is that even a plausible scenario with his advanced age?

 

[kcsu]

Honest question: is that even a plausible scenario with his advanced age?

I would think so. He looks to be in excellent shape and is sharp as a tack. He was spoiled by Hop who carried the load for him for at least the last 10 years. Hop was/is one of the most charismatic coaches you will ever meet. He is a world class recruiter whi lined them up for Jim. At this point Gmac Griff and Red dont seem to be in hops league. But back to your question i have no doubt JB can do it. The question is will he.