Tons of offers and ounces on verbals

[bnoro]

Don't want to stir the too much but it's the same concern I've had for a while. I think spending a lot of time in the Midwest states other than neighboring Ohio is a waste of our resources. Unless you have a clear "in" with someone out there, we're not going to beat the local B!G schools for many kids we want. It's also an area where populations are stagnating or declining relative to other parts of the country (so longterm, competition for kids is only going to get tougher). I realize Lester and Smith and others have roots there but they're recruiting for Syracuse now. I'd like to see them spend more time working kids and building networks in our own region. The two commits we have are from NY and PA, which have always been our bread and butter. Competition is tough in our region too, with Rutgers going to the B1G and Addazio was a lights out recruiter for us in the 1990s, so can't just expect results. I'd also like to see them spending more of their time in Florida and Georgia and the mid-Atlantic which is in our conference's footprint and is growing at a much faster rate than their old stomping grounds. GA alone produces more D-1 athletes than the upper Midwest combined.

It's unfortunate but recruiting today is all about attention. The more the kid gets, the more likely it is that he'll commit. My fear is that they're spreading themselves too thin. But we'll see. I think the camps will give us a better idea of where they stand with some of their major targets (if they aren't committed elsewhere by then).

We have a clear "in". Lester is very well respected out there and Coach Lea knows the area well also.

 

[Crusty]

The one factor I did not see anyone mention was getting players drafted. We have had two fairly visible drafts in a row. Seems to me that will help especially if we get a few more next year. The best kids want to play early and come out early. For the first time in a long time we are a pretty good story. And as much as some will hate this notion, He Who Shall Not Be Mentioned's success at Buffalo would be good for our program.
We all know the negatives (every program had them) but we have a lot of positives for the first time in two decades.
I think we will keep improving and will be just fine.

 

[Van111]

I would say that we have an athletic department that lacks creativity in dealing with a student population that could be a tremendous asset. Spring game - why were there not two printed tickets in the mailbox of every single student (undergrad and grad), along with every single university employee?? football season tix - given that the dome no longer fills up, why not offer student tickets at a drastically discounted rate - $50 for the season vs $99 for the cheapest seats available to the general public plus throw in a cool looking t-shirt or something. Enthusiasm doesn't generate itself after so many years of mediocrity. Also kids these days are pretty fickle and disinterested - you are going to have to do something to motivate them to get out of the dorm room despite the severe hangover.

It takes a student(s) to drive this one home. We can all say what ever we want, but I think if the students voiced their concerns for attending games, then maybe the AD and the department would seriously address them. There is also the teaching side of teh house who is often critical of the athletic department. Don't they understand that a successful run in the ACC means money for the education department, increased opportunities is a two way street. Time the whole campus jumps on board. It could be quite rewarding and entertaining. Wow, what a great idea students and faculity! Maybe there is more to life than a study hall and the inside of a bar!

 

[cuseinchina]

It takes a student(s) to drive this one home. We can all say what ever we want, but I think if the students voiced their concerns for attending games, then maybe the AD and the department would seriously address them. There is also the teaching side of teh house who is often critical of the athletic department. Don't they understand that a successful run in the ACC means money for the education department, increased opportunities is a two way street. Time the whole campus jumps on board. It could be quite rewarding and entertaining. Wow, what a great idea students and faculity! Maybe there is more to life than a study hall and the inside of a bar!

I hear your point and agree to a certain extent - it's pretty weak that the students don't get behind football more. But disapproving of the reality doesn't change the reality. The athletic department is selling a product, and to some extent the students don't buy that product - who's responsibility is it to shift that dynamic? It's like saying twinkies are great so people should buy more twinkies so hostess would not have gone in to chapter 11...well maybe the company needed to sell more twinkies by approaching their marketing in a new way - eg targetting less health conscious markets and leveraging the history of the brand or whatever would have worked - I bet the island of Samoa alone could support the twinkies brand. Point being the seller has to sell, the buyer has to be convinced.

Obviously that stuff doesn't apply to 'real' fans...but sellouts come in fair weather. The university should do whatever they can to get those kids into the stands as energized as possible.

 

[NailstheCusefan12]

I hear your point and agree to a certain extent - it's pretty weak that the students don't get behind football more. But disapproving of the reality doesn't change the reality. The athletic department is selling a product, and to some extent the students don't buy that product - who's responsibility is it to shift that dynamic? It's like saying twinkies are great so people should buy more twinkies so hostess would not have gone in to chapter 11...well maybe the company needed to sell more twinkies by approaching their marketing in a new way - eg targetting less health conscious markets and leveraging the history of the brand or whatever would have worked - I bet the island of Samoa alone could support the twinkies brand. Point being the seller has to sell, the buyer has to be convinced.

Obviously that stuff doesn't apply to 'real' fans...but sellouts come in fair weather. The university should do whatever they can to get those kids into the stands as energized as possible.

Agreed. IMO, they undermine their attempts to sell tickets to ALL games by then going back and giving out tickets to the important ones anyway because they haven't sold enough. I think this will be less of a problem with proven brands coming to the Dome (FSU, Miami, Tech, etc.), but my roommates never bought season football tickets because they figured the University would end up giving the students free tickets to the big games so the student section wouldn't look bad on ESPN.

 

[Van111]

I hear your point and agree to a certain extent - it's pretty weak that the students don't get behind football more. But disapproving of the reality doesn't change the reality. The athletic department is selling a product, and to some extent the students don't buy that product - who's responsibility is it to shift that dynamic? It's like saying twinkies are great so people should buy more twinkies so hostess would not have gone in to chapter 11...well maybe the company needed to sell more twinkies by approaching their marketing in a new way - eg targetting less health conscious markets and leveraging the history of the brand or whatever would have worked - I bet the island of Samoa alone could support the twinkies brand. Point being the seller has to sell, the buyer has to be convinced.

Obviously that stuff doesn't apply to 'real' fans...but sellouts come in fair weather. The university should do whatever they can to get those kids into the stands as energized as possible.

From your side of the coin, I do agree with some of your points as it is the athletic departments responsibility to solicit that support, but we aren't talking about having a choice for a snack cake versus what you get out of camaraderie at your school with your friends and fellow alumnus, are we? This has to be a joint effort by both the students and the school staff. My example is campus based, you can go to a UVA game, even if the team is at the bottom of the standings, and the kids come out for the game! Why, because they made an event out of it! Check this out...

My projections is we would fall somewhere around the Maryland line, if not below that. I mentioned UVA for one reason, they are extreamly similar in size and scope to Syarcuse. Both are private Universities. (Happen to have the same colors, go figure!) Here is a link to the ACC Analysis.

http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2011/6/29/2243155/acc-football-attendance-analysis

Syracuse attendance was down despite a good year. I blame this directly for having a terrible home schedule and playing in the meadowlands.

http://accfootballnews.net/2012/12/13/syracuse-football-attendance-down-6-lowest-since-2008/

What does it mean for attendance if we can match say a UVA team? How about an increase of 2-3K per game. I think that is very doable is the student body and the University start working together. That coupled with a much better home schedule with the ACC now, we could easily match the UVA average attendance of about 45K/game. Even better, scrap the every year big game at the meadowlands, I am not against playing there once in awhile but it ain't working folks, and we just might actually have an official sellout! Bottom line is we need the students to accomplish this, one way or the other.

 

[Van111]

Back to the point of the post and how this relates, we need the loud house back as one of the key factors that will help recruiting. Half empty stadiums don't excite future recruits in coming here.

 

[Crusty]

Let's face it, we stunk for quite some time until the past three years. That more than anything else accounts for recruiting challenges. Obviously, a lot of elements go into it but losing is losing and nobody wants to go to a losing program. We have turned things around and are on the way up and the football world knows it. Attendance will improve over time as the chance to see new ACC teams presents. Playing games in the Meadowlands certainly does not hurt recruiting and I don't think it affects dome attendance for other games. Winning is what really matters and I think we now have the elements to move forward to winning seasons and increased interest. Recruiting will follow soon enough.

 

[sutomcat]

From your side of the coin, I do agree with some of your points as it is the athletic departments responsibility to solicit that support, but we aren't talking about having a choice for a snack cake versus what you get out of camaraderie at your school with your friends and fellow alumnus, are we? This has to be a joint effort by both the students and the school staff. My example is campus based, you can go to a UVA game, even if the team is at the bottom of the standings, and the kids come out for the game! Why, because they made an event out of it! Check this out...

My projections is we would fall somewhere around the Maryland line, if not below that. I mentioned UVA for one reason, they are extreamly similar in size and scope to Syarcuse. Both are private Universities. (Happen to have the same colors, go figure!) Here is a link to the ACC Analysis.

http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2011/6/29/2243155/acc-football-attendance-analysis

Syracuse attendance was down despite a good year. I blame this directly for having a terrible home schedule and playing in the meadowlands.

http://accfootballnews.net/2012/12/13/syracuse-football-attendance-down-6-lowest-since-2008/

What does it mean for attendance if we can match say a UVA team? How about an increase of 2-3K per game. I think that is very doable is the student body and the University start working together. That coupled with a much better home schedule with the ACC now, we could easily match the UVA average attendance of about 45K/game. Even better, scrap the every year big game at the meadowlands, I am not against playing there once in awhile but it ain't working folks, and we just might actually have an official sellout! Bottom line is we need the students to accomplish this, one way or the other.

Good stuff. One thing that I think really hinders student attendance for football is the breakdown of students at Syracuse. I am unsure why, but the percentage of female to male students at SU is really skewed towards females. I think more than 60% of the student body is currently female.

There are exceptions but in general, I think it is safe to say females don't enjoy football as much as males, and I think that applies to the SU student body.

The challenge is to find ways to make football more attractive to females. Don't know if they need to show behind the scenes documentaries on the players before the game (up close and personal Olympic treatment), have the players come out without their shirts for the pregame warmups (the beefcake solution), or something else (yes, surely something else; maybe tie football attendance to basketball seating, so the loyal football students get the best seats for hoops?).

But this is surely part of the problem...

 

[phil77]

Good stuff. One thing that I think really hinders student attendance for football is the breakdown of students at Syracuse. I am unsure why, but the percentage of female to male students at SU is really skewed towards females. I think more than 60% of the student body is currently female.

Shouldn't that be used as a recruiting tool?

 

[Van111]

Let's face it, we stunk for quite some time until the past three years. That more than anything else accounts for recruiting challenges. Obviously, a lot of elements go into it but losing is losing and nobody wants to go to a losing program. We have turned things around and are on the way up and the football world knows it. Attendance will improve over time as the chance to see new ACC teams presents. Playing games in the Meadowlands certainly does not hurt recruiting and I don't think it affects dome attendance for other games. Winning is what really matters and I think we now have the elements to move forward to winning seasons and increased interest. Recruiting will follow soon enough.

I agree winning is number 1 on the list, but I disagree with the meadowlands getting our prime non-conf game each year whole heartedly, what did we net out of NYC/NJ last year in recruiting? 1 JUCO that wasn't coming here as a freshmen, 1 Western NY kid that playing down there meant nothing too, and from NJ...notta, zilch......zero. We weren't even close with anyone in NJ last year. Considering we played USC there last year wrapped between 2 Pinstripe Bowls in NYC, i don't see the connection. Not to mention the media during the USC game kept talking about a half empty stadium during the USC game. We had 39K at the game and a large contingent was from USC. We would have had close to capacity at SU for this game, just a thought here, how is this helping us and our brand again?

 

[bothsocksup]

lets say the quality of your seats improve if you attend football games. When they scan your ticket at a football game it registers and translates to better basketball seats

 

[DPCuse]

How about swiping your student ID card. If you attend at least 5 out of 6 home games, your name is thrown in to a drawing where the winner will be awarded a $5,000 scholarship the next school year. Once you start getting the kids in the habit of going, the attendance and enthusiasm should take care of itself. And if the environment is better, the locals will start showing up. And the $5,000 isn't really lost since you are just discounting tuition and not shelling out hard dollars. Just once crazy idea.

 

[Crusty]

I agree winning is number 1 on the list, but I disagree with the meadowlands getting our prime non-conf game each year whole heartedly, what did we net out of NYC/NJ last year in recruiting? 1 JUCO that wasn't coming here as a freshmen, 1 Western NY kid that playing down there meant nothing too, and from NJ...notta, zilch......zero. We weren't even close with anyone in NJ last year. Considering we played USC there last year wrapped between 2 Pinstripe Bowls in NYC, i don't see the connection. Not to mention the media during the USC game kept talking about a half empty stadium during the USC game. We had 39K at the game and a large contingent was from USC. We would have had close to capacity at SU for this game, just a thought here, how is this helping us and our brand again?

I think the point is that most kids would love to play a game each year in the Meadowlands regardless of where they are from. In addition, certain teams simply won't play us in the Dome whereas they will at the Met Life. There apparently is really is no argument against it other than one less game in the Dome. If we filled the Dome each game I might have a different view. I think it is a case of the positives outweigh any negatives.

Of course, it matters little what we think as we are contractually committed. I wonder what HCSS thinks.

 

[tep624]

How about swiping your student ID card. If you attend at least 5 out of 6 home games, your name is thrown in to a drawing where the winner will be awarded a $5,000 scholarship the next school year. Once you start getting the kids in the habit of going, the attendance and enthusiasm should take care of itself. And if the environment is better, the locals will start showing up. And the $5,000 isn't really lost since you are just discounting tuition and not shelling out hard dollars. Just once crazy idea.

If the university wanted to have promotions like that but avoid the cost or lost revenue with doing it, they could just factor the promotion pool value into their student activity fee they charge per year or the cost structure of tickets.

 

[tep624]

I agree winning is number 1 on the list, but I disagree with the meadowlands getting our prime non-conf game each year whole heartedly, what did we net out of NYC/NJ last year in recruiting? 1 JUCO that wasn't coming here as a freshmen, 1 Western NY kid that playing down there meant nothing too, and from NJ...notta, zilch......zero. We weren't even close with anyone in NJ last year. Considering we played USC there last year wrapped between 2 Pinstripe Bowls in NYC, i don't see the connection. Not to mention the media during the USC game kept talking about a half empty stadium during the USC game. We had 39K at the game and a large contingent was from USC. We would have had close to capacity at SU for this game, just a thought here, how is this helping us and our brand again?

We've haven't been a factor in Jersey in years, having one game at the Meadowlands wasn't going to change that. You don't build a brand up overnight.

I think you're overlooking the fact that we would have had two NYC kids in Gus Edwards and Laray Smith had the coaching change not happened. I'm sure the Meadowlands meant something to them.

 

[JackBauer44]

If the university wanted to have promotions like that but avoid the cost or lost revenue with doing it, they could just factor the promotion pool value into their student activity fee they charge per year or the cost structure of tickets.

I work very closely with Student Activities. At the college I work at, we have 8-10 events every year that we scan ID cards for. For every scan, the students get their name entered in a drawing. At the end of the semester, we do a drawing for an all expense paid Spring Break trip. Being a private school, we have the ability to allocate student activity money for promotions like that. I imagine Syracuse can too.

 

[anomander]

We've haven't been a factor in Jersey in years, having one game at the Meadowlands wasn't going to change that. You don't build a brand up overnight.

I think you're overlooking the fact that we would have had two NYC kids in Gus Edwards and Laray Smith had the coaching change not happened. I'm sure the Meadowlands meant something to them.

totally agree. anybody who thought this was going to be a quick rebuild process was out of their mind. we are still at the beginning stages. we went through the lumps (even with 2 bowl wins!), and now we start the slow climb back up the hill. we never had the components for a quick fix. being a private school we weren't going to pay a big name coach, we weren't going to snag an up and coming coach, we don't have the blow you away facilities. TGD made the absolute right hire with Marrone, who totally gutted the program, and got us back on track. I am totally sold that HCSS is the man to lead us through the next step of the rebuild process. We have to continue to win so the kids who we now start to recruit recognize us as a winning program again. the kids we have tried to recruit the last 3 years have only seen losing seasons from us in the past. The further we can put those losing seasons in the past the better. It's going to be a slow process, but we are well on our way. We just can't have any set backs. This year is critical.

 

[tep624]

I work very closely with Student Activities. At the college I work at, we have 8-10 events every year that we scan ID cards for. For every scan, the students get their name entered in a drawing. At the end of the semester, we do a drawing for an all expense paid Spring Break trip. Being a private school, we have the ability to allocate student activity money for promotions like that. I imagine Syracuse can too.

It makes a lot of sense. Most students have no idea what their student activity fee money goes towards nor how much they should be paying. You could easily put programs in place that would help to get students interested in the athletic events without it costing the University anything.

 

[tep624]

totally agree. anybody who thought this was going to be a quick rebuild process was out of their mind. we are still at the beginning stages. we went through the lumps (even with 2 bowl wins!), and now we start the slow climb back up the hill. we never had the components for a quick fix. being a private school we weren't going to pay a big name coach, we weren't going to snag an up and coming coach, we don't have the blow you away facilities. TGD made the absolute right hire with Marrone, who totally gutted the program, and got us back on track. I am totally sold that HCSS is the man to lead us through the next step of the rebuild process. We have to continue to win so the kids who we now start to recruit recognize us as a winning program again. the kids we have tried to recruit the last 3 years have only seen losing seasons from us in the past. The further we can put those losing seasons in the past the better. It's going to be a slow process, but we are well on our way. We just can't have any set backs. This year is critical.

I go back and forth with the recruiting year so far. Part of me thinks that if we don't have some more verbals in place by the end of May that we're going to be in some trouble - I definitely expected at least 1 of the 4 guys that were part of the first recruiting weekend with Long and Howard to have committed by now. I would expect this class to be smaller, in the 18-20 range, but every year we say that we end up taking 25 guys anyway. In years past I wouldn't have even gave it a thought as to how many commits we had by the end of May, but the calendar has moved up so drastically in terms of football recruiting. I know we'll land some guys coming out of the camps, that's pretty much a given, and I expect June to be pretty active as far as commits, but I'd really like to see us get 2 or 3 more guys in this class before the camps hit. It just makes the base that much stronger to work off of and gives a kid like AJ Long even more to pitch to prospective recruits.

 

[anomander]

I go back and forth with the recruiting year so far. Part of me thinks that if we don't have some more verbals in place by the end of May that we're going to be in some trouble - I definitely expected at least 1 of the 4 guys that were part of the first recruiting weekend with Long and Howard to have committed by now. I would expect this class to be smaller, in the 18-20 range, but every year we say that we end up taking 25 guys anyway. In years past I wouldn't have even gave it a thought as to how many commits we had by the end of May, but the calendar has moved up so drastically in terms of football recruiting. I know we'll land some guys coming out of the camps, that's pretty much a given, and I expect June to be pretty active as far as commits, but I'd really like to see us get 2 or 3 more guys in this class before the camps hit. It just makes the base that much stronger to work off of and gives a kid like AJ Long even more to pitch to prospective recruits.

i agree again. especially with the part that the calendar has been moved up. it's easy to look at prior years and say we are right on pace, but with the increased emphasis on early recruiting we are behind quite a bit. i do understand that is mainly to do with a brand new staff, but it doesn't change the fact that we do have some ground to make up. after coming off a disappointing 2013 recruiting cycle because of the coaching change we can't afford another down 2014 cycle. we have drastically improved our overall roster, but we are still at a fragile stage, and 2 back to back down classes could really have a negative effect. I am with you that I think we bring in a few kids in June during camps, but they most likely be any of the impact recruits we are after. Before the Summer is over if we can have Long, Howard, Shute, Moskal, Franklin, Klock and KJ, or something close to that, we would have a great base to work off of.

 

[ForeverOrange]

No matter how you cut it, we are in a "wait and see" mode with things. As I read this thread it's amazing to me how perceptions change with time. I remember when our football program had a higher profile than Clemson. These things work in cycles though. I remember the days of power houses like Nebraska, Miami and Florida State, and am reminded that we are not immune to decline if schools like that can fall off.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Good stuff. One thing that I think really hinders student attendance for football is the breakdown of students at Syracuse. I am unsure why, but the percentage of female to male students at SU is really skewed towards females. I think more than 60% of the student body is currently female.

There are exceptions but in general, I think it is safe to say females don't enjoy football as much as males, and I think that applies to the SU student body.

The challenge is to find ways to make football more attractive to females. Don't know if they need to show behind the scenes documentaries on the players before the game (up close and personal Olympic treatment), have the players come out without their shirts for the pregame warmups (the beefcake solution), or something else (yes, surely something else; maybe tie football attendance to basketball seating, so the loyal football students get the best seats for hoops?).

But this is surely part of the problem...

Just need more of these...
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