Top 12 Syracuse basketball players of all time

[cuseinseattle]

What about Etan Thomas. He was better than Seikley in my opinion. He had less points but similar rebounds, like 100 more blocks and less points but consider what he had to work with for guards. I think he is really underrated.

 

[kuethstheman]

Think of all the late game isolations with Billy dribling 25-30 feet from the basket, above the top of the key, and then trying to dribble past a smaller, quicker defender. He was a great player within the offense, but he was not very good at closing out those end of the half or end of game possessions, notwithstanding their record.

Owens was a very frustrating player. All the talent in the world but low basketball IQ. Especially hard to watch because he made mistakes that I wouldn't make, and that's saying something. You could see them coming a mile away.

As for the Richmond game, yes he got his points. I could be wrong but I think he had a bunch of turnovers (much like Warrick/Vermont).

 

[Digger]

Owens was a very frustrating player. All the talent in the world but low basketball IQ. Especially hard to watch because he made mistakes that I wouldn't make, and that's saying something. You could see them coming a mile away.

As for the Richmond game, yes he got his points. I could be wrong but I think he had a bunch of turnovers (much like Warrick/Vermont).

3 TOs
http://www.cuse.com/sports/2007/4/5/richmond.03.14.91.aspx?id=4873

 

[General20]

Owens was a very frustrating player. All the talent in the world but low basketball IQ. Especially hard to watch because he made mistakes that I wouldn't make, and that's saying something. You could see them coming a mile away.

As for the Richmond game, yes he got his points. I could be wrong but I think he had a bunch of turnovers (much like Warrick/Vermont).

Boeheim would disagree, he said on numerous occasions that Owens had one of the best BBall IQ's of any player he coached.

I don't understand why everyone wants to blame Owens for the Richmond game. He was literally the only player on the team that played well. Everyone else sucked.

Vic Hanson is a tough one to place, but I believe the guy won two championships and was named to the college basketball hall of fame. Seems like he should be in the top 12.

Also, Rudy Hackett, never seems to be mentioned. The guy averaged 22 points on a final 4 team. I'd definitely have him on my list . . . which I'll give a go at now.

#1) Bing - he's our Babe Ruth

#2) Douglas - left Syracuse as the all time leader in points and steals and the all time NCAA leader in assists - can't ask for much more than that, and he did it in three years, while doing a LOT of winning.

#3) Owens - He gets blame he does not deserve for the team's early loss to Richmond. He had something like 21 and 7 in that game. The guy averaged 23, 12 and 4 as a junior while grabbing 2 steals a game, shooting 50% from the field and 40% from 3. He was also the power forward on D and the point guard on O a lot of the time.

#4) Pearl Washington - There is always that Douglas/Washington debate. Douglas put up better numbers and won more, but Washington started the "SU as a national power" ball rolling, he deserves some bonus points for that.

#5) Derrick Coleman - The guy was the best rebounder I have ever seen in college, bar none. He was also arguably the most complete college player Ive ever seen. For a PF/C the guy could handle the ball, shoot, block, rebound, run the court, bang down low, had great hands, and could pass. Almost every college player has a weakness (even the guys above Coleman on this list), but Coleman had none to speak of. Yet, oddly, he was never really the best player on any of his teams. Douglas was for most of his career, then Owens.

#6) John Wallace - If we are going by a career, I think he is sixth on the list. If we are going by who had the best single season then Wallace could be #1. It would be between he and Owens to be the #1 guy who played under Boeheim. Owens was a more well rounded player, and had slightly better stats, but Wallace meant more to his team. Wallace, in fact, meant just about everything to his team, and scored a whopping 22 ppg on a team that played at an uncharacteristically slow pace. I bet Wallace scored the largest percentage of his team's points of any player.

#7) Rudy Hackett - I'm too young to have seen him play, but he scored 22 ppg on a final 4 team. That sounds pretty good to me.

#8) Warrick - Also averaged 20 or 21 ppg as a junior and senior. Was a first team all american, and had the single most important play during our championship. Hard to top Warrick's offensive output here, but he loses some points for being terrible defensively.

#9) Anthony - If he stayed all 4 years he'd be #1 on this list, but he only stayed 1 year so I have to compare it to the other players on this list's best years, and give those players extra credit for the extra years they played that he did not. He was the best player on a championship team, which gets him bonus points.

#10) Vic Hanson - As I said above, not sure quite where to fit this guy in, but this seems like a good spot. I can't leave out someone who won championships and is in the college basketball hall of fame.

#11) Moten - His top end is not as high as a lot of these other guys, but he averaged 18ppg or more every year he played and he saved SU by being a star during a rough patch after NCAA penalties. He's also the Big East's all time leading scorer (we have the Big East's all time leading scorer in Moten, rebounder in Coleman, and assist guy in Douglas, pretty awesome).

#12) I kind of want to put Dion Waiters in this spot. Am I crazy? The negative is he only stayed 2 years and his first year wasn't very good. The positive is he was (in my opinion) the best guard in college basketball his sophomore year. Of all the great guards we have had, only Douglas and Pearl can make that claim. He was also the best player on SU's winningest team, which has to count for something.

 

[RobVTX]

Boeheim would disagree, he said on numerous occasions that Owens had one of the best BBall IQ's of any player he coached.

I don't understand why everyone wants to blame Owens for the Richmond game. He was literally the only player on the team that played well. Everyone else sucked.

Vic Hanson is a tough one to place, but I believe the guy won two championships and was named to the college basketball hall of fame. Seems like he should be in the top 12.

Also, Rudy Hackett, never seems to be mentioned. The guy averaged 22 points on a final 4 team. I'd definitely have him on my list . . . which I'll give a go at now.

#1) Bing - he's our Babe Ruth

#2) Douglas - left Syracuse as the all time leader in points and steals and the all time NCAA leader in assists - can't ask for much more than that, and he did it in three years, while doing a LOT of winning.

#3) Owens - He gets blame he does not deserve for the team's early loss to Richmond. He had something like 21 and 7 in that game. The guy averaged 23, 12 and 4 as a junior while grabbing 2 steals a game, shooting 50% from the field and 40% from 3. He was also the power forward on D and the point guard on O a lot of the time.

#4) Pearl Washington - There is always that Douglas/Washington debate. Douglas put up better numbers and won more, but Washington started the "SU as a national power" ball rolling, he deserves some bonus points for that.

#5) Derrick Coleman - The guy was the best rebounder I have ever seen in college, bar none. He was also arguably the most complete college player Ive ever seen. For a PF/C the guy could handle the ball, shoot, block, rebound, run the court, bang down low, had great hands, and could pass. Almost every college player has a weakness (even the guys above Coleman on this list), but Coleman had none to speak of. Yet, oddly, he was never really the best player on any of his teams. Douglas was for most of his career, then Owens.

#6) John Wallace - If we are going by a career, I think he is sixth on the list. If we are going by who had the best single season then Wallace could be #1. It would be between he and Owens to be the #1 guy who played under Boeheim. Owens was a more well rounded player, and had slightly better stats, but Wallace meant more to his team. Wallace, in fact, meant just about everything to his team, and scored a whopping 22 ppg on a team that played at an uncharacteristically slow pace. I bet Wallace scored the largest percentage of his team's points of any player.

#7) Rudy Hackett - I'm too young to have seen him play, but he scored 22 ppg on a final 4 team. That sounds pretty good to me.

#8) Warrick - Also averaged 20 or 21 ppg as a junior and senior. Was a first team all american, and had the single most important play during our championship. Hard to top Warrick's offensive output here, but he loses some points for being terrible defensively.

#9) Anthony - If he stayed all 4 years he'd be #1 on this list, but he only stayed 1 year so I have to compare it to the other players on this list's best years, and give those players extra credit for the extra years they played that he did not. He was the best player on a championship team, which gets him bonus points.

#10) Vic Hanson - As I said above, not sure quite where to fit this guy in, but this seems like a good spot. I can't leave out someone who won championships and is in the college basketball hall of fame.

#11) Moten - His top end is not as high as a lot of these other guys, but he averaged 18ppg or more every year he played and he saved SU by being a star during a rough patch after NCAA penalties. He's also the Big East's all time leading scorer (we have the Big East's all time leading scorer in Moten, rebounder in Coleman, and assist guy in Douglas, pretty awesome).

#12) I kind of want to put Dion Waiters in this spot. Am I crazy? The negative is he only stayed 2 years and his first year wasn't very good. The positive is he was (in my opinion) the best guard in college basketball his sophomore year. Of all the great guards we have had, only Douglas and Pearl can make that claim. He was also the best player on SU's winningest team, which has to count for something.

Greg Kohls, Dennis Duvall.

 

[heresjohnny88]

Will always be a huge CJ fan...but #12 is kinda laughable.

 

[stumpy78]

Rudy Hackett?

 

[kuethstheman]

Boeheim would disagree, he said on numerous occasions that Owens had one of the best BBall IQ's of any player he coached.

I don't understand why everyone wants to blame Owens for the Richmond game. He was literally the only player on the team that played well. Everyone else sucked.

I don't blame him for Richmond but as after most games, I felt he could have done more. Like I said, probably because he made silly plays that you could see coming. "No Billy don't! Yup. He did it." Repeat.

Maybe his IQ came into play in every other way but many of his mistakes were predictable and left me wondering why after three years did he continue to make them.

 

[sutomcat]

Boeheim would disagree, he said on numerous occasions that Owens had one of the best BBall IQ's of any player he coached.

I don't understand why everyone wants to blame Owens for the Richmond game. He was literally the only player on the team that played well. Everyone else sucked.

Vic Hanson is a tough one to place, but I believe the guy won two championships and was named to the college basketball hall of fame. Seems like he should be in the top 12.

Also, Rudy Hackett, never seems to be mentioned. The guy averaged 22 points on a final 4 team. I'd definitely have him on my list . . . which I'll give a go at now.

#1) Bing - he's our Babe Ruth

#2) Douglas - left Syracuse as the all time leader in points and steals and the all time NCAA leader in assists - can't ask for much more than that, and he did it in three years, while doing a LOT of winning.

#3) Owens - He gets blame he does not deserve for the team's early loss to Richmond. He had something like 21 and 7 in that game. The guy averaged 23, 12 and 4 as a junior while grabbing 2 steals a game, shooting 50% from the field and 40% from 3. He was also the power forward on D and the point guard on O a lot of the time.

#4) Pearl Washington - There is always that Douglas/Washington debate. Douglas put up better numbers and won more, but Washington started the "SU as a national power" ball rolling, he deserves some bonus points for that.

#5) Derrick Coleman - The guy was the best rebounder I have ever seen in college, bar none. He was also arguably the most complete college player Ive ever seen. For a PF/C the guy could handle the ball, shoot, block, rebound, run the court, bang down low, had great hands, and could pass. Almost every college player has a weakness (even the guys above Coleman on this list), but Coleman had none to speak of. Yet, oddly, he was never really the best player on any of his teams. Douglas was for most of his career, then Owens.

#6) John Wallace - If we are going by a career, I think he is sixth on the list. If we are going by who had the best single season then Wallace could be #1. It would be between he and Owens to be the #1 guy who played under Boeheim. Owens was a more well rounded player, and had slightly better stats, but Wallace meant more to his team. Wallace, in fact, meant just about everything to his team, and scored a whopping 22 ppg on a team that played at an uncharacteristically slow pace. I bet Wallace scored the largest percentage of his team's points of any player.

#7) Rudy Hackett - I'm too young to have seen him play, but he scored 22 ppg on a final 4 team. That sounds pretty good to me.

#8) Warrick - Also averaged 20 or 21 ppg as a junior and senior. Was a first team all american, and had the single most important play during our championship. Hard to top Warrick's offensive output here, but he loses some points for being terrible defensively.

#9) Anthony - If he stayed all 4 years he'd be #1 on this list, but he only stayed 1 year so I have to compare it to the other players on this list's best years, and give those players extra credit for the extra years they played that he did not. He was the best player on a championship team, which gets him bonus points.

#10) Vic Hanson - As I said above, not sure quite where to fit this guy in, but this seems like a good spot. I can't leave out someone who won championships and is in the college basketball hall of fame.

#11) Moten - His top end is not as high as a lot of these other guys, but he averaged 18ppg or more every year he played and he saved SU by being a star during a rough patch after NCAA penalties. He's also the Big East's all time leading scorer (we have the Big East's all time leading scorer in Moten, rebounder in Coleman, and assist guy in Douglas, pretty awesome).

#12) I kind of want to put Dion Waiters in this spot. Am I crazy? The negative is he only stayed 2 years and his first year wasn't very good. The positive is he was (in my opinion) the best guard in college basketball his sophomore year. Of all the great guards we have had, only Douglas and Pearl can make that claim. He was also the best player on SU's winningest team, which has to count for something.

This is a lot closer to my list than the others I have seen. Agree, Owens was an unbelievable talent and he has to be listed in the top 5 Orangemen ever. One of our best ever at scoring, rebounding and passing and he got a ton of steals and blocks too. Not knock on JW, who was also an all-time great, but he couldn't do anything quite as well as Billy could.

Agree. You have to include Hanson. Any national player of the year, member of the CB HOF has to be a top 12 player. I think Joseph Schwartzer should be included too. He was an AA, best player in the county his senior year and also led SU to a national title. When people make these lists, they are always biased towards the players that have played most recently.

I saw Hackett play. He was really good, played a key role in getting us to our first Final Four and is often forgotten in these kinds of exercises. I included him but had to cheat to do so.

Roosevelt Bouie has to at least be considered, as does Rony Seikaly. So does Wesley Johnson.

The other two players who put up great numbers a while ago that might need to be considered are Greg Kohls and Bill Smith. If there was a 3 point circle when Kohls played, his impressive numbers would have been crazy. The problem with these two is that in those days, SU was a regional program. They didn't play a very good schedule and I think you have to take that into account when considering them for this team. There is a reason they didn't get named to AA teams.

Anyway, let's consider AA teams. Here is a list of all SU AAs in basketball from the great orangehoops site.

My rule is you have to make at least one AA team in your career in order to be considered (HM doesn't count).

Helms Foundation AAs
Lew Castle (twice)
Joe Schwartzer
Bob Marcus
Vic Hanson (three times)
Billy Gabor (twice, but a 30 man team)

I feel forced to ignore the other Helms AAs as they all were members of 30 to 36 members teams. Too big to be meaningful).

AP AAs

DuVal (3rd team)
Hackett (2nd team)
Pearl (3rd team twice)
Sherman (third team, first team)
DC (first name, national player of the year)
Billy (first team)
Moten (third team)
JW (second team)
Melo (second team; ha!)
Hakim (third team; first team)
Wes Johnson (first team)
CJ Fair (third team)
Rak (third team)

My list:

1. Hanson
2. Bing
3. DC
4. Sherman
5. Billy Owens
6. Hakim
7. Melo
8. JW
9. Wes Johnson
10. Pearl
11. Moten
12. tie: Schwartzer/Castle/Gabor/Hackett

 

[jr4750]

#5) Derrick Coleman - The guy was the best rebounder I have ever seen in college, bar none. He was also arguably the most complete college player Ive ever seen. For a PF/C the guy could handle the ball, shoot, block, rebound, run the court, bang down low, had great hands, and could pass. Almost every college player has a weakness (even the guys above Coleman on this list), but Coleman had none to speak of. Yet, oddly, he was never really the best player on any of his teams. Douglas was for most of his career, then Owens.
.

So I looked up TRobs rebounding numbers yesterday for his career and season. He is sitting at 304 rebounds this year and roughly 550 for his career, give or take a few. I thought he'd have more, but then I realized he barely played as a freshman and started slowly as a soph. DC is a 1000 more than Tyler and 500 more than 2nd placed Rony Seikely. He was an absolute beast!

On the all-timers list the only guys ahead of him, who played big time ball are:

Tom Gola* La Salle 1951 1955 118 2,201 [13]
Joe Holup George Washington 1952 1956 104 2,030 [13]
Charlie Slack C Marshall 1952 1956 88 1,916 [14]
Ed Conlin Fordham 1951 1955 102 1,884 [14]
Dickie Hemric /C Wake Forest 1951 1955 104 1,802 [16]
Paul Silas C Creighton 1961 1964 81 1,751 [17]
Art Quimby C Connecticut 1951 1955 80 1,716 [2]
Jerry Harper /C Alabama 1952 1956 93 1,688 [18]
Jeff Cohen /C William & Mary 1957 1961 103 1,679 [14]
Steve Hamilton /C Morehead State 1954 1958 102 1,675 [14]
Kenneth Faried /C Morehead State (2) 2007 2011 136 1,673 [19]
Charlie Tyra Louisville 1953 1957 95 1,617 [20]
Bill Russell* C San Francisco 1953 1956 79 1,606 [21]
Elvin Hayes* C Houston 1965 1968 93 1,602 [22]
Marvin Barnes Providence 1971 1974 89 1,592 [23]
Tim Duncan C Wake Forest (2) 1993 1997 128 1,570 [24]
Ronnie Shavlik /C NC State 1953 1956 93 1,567 [2]
Elgin Baylor* Albertson / Seattle 1955 1958 80 1,559 [25]
Ernie Beck Penn 1950 1953 82 1,557 [14]
Dave DeBusschere* C Detroit 1959 1962 80 1,552 [26]
Wes Unseld* /C Louisville (2) 1965 1968 82 1,551
Derrick Coleman /C Syracuse 1986 1990 143 1,537

If you look closely, you also see that the only ones ahead of him within the last 40 years are Duncan and Faried. Every other guy on this list played in the 50's, 60's or 70's.

 

[Marsh01]

He was much better actually and he was like MJ in his senior year. A very dominant player. Owens was never dominat

its because he didnt have to be playing along side DC, Stevie and Sherm. He was dominant his junior year and would probably have been college player of the year his senior season

He was better than JW

 

[Marsh01]

What about Etan Thomas. He was better than Seikley in my opinion. He had less points but similar rebounds, like 100 more blocks and less points but consider what he had to work with for guards. I think he is really underrated.

not even close. Watch the 87 ncaa tournament highlights,

 

[newmexicuse]

Why does Rudy Hackett never get a sniff on these lists, and I know Bees is a big Bill Smith fan.

 

[MSOrange]

This is a lot closer to my list than the others I have seen. Agree, Owens was an unbelievable talent and he has to be listed in the top 5 Orangemen ever. One of our best ever at scoring, rebounding and passing and he got a ton of steals and blocks too. Not knock on JW, who was also an all-time great, but he couldn't do anything quite as well as Billy could.

Agree. You have to include Hanson. Any national player of the year, member of the CB HOF has to be a top 12 player. I think Joseph Schwartzer should be included too. He was an AA, best player in the county his senior year and also led SU to a national title. When people make these lists, they are always biased towards the players that have played most recently.

I saw Hackett play. He was really good, played a key role in getting us to our first Final Four and is often forgotten in these kinds of exercises. I included him but had to cheat to do so.

Roosevelt Bouie has to at least be considered, as does Rony Seikaly. So does Wesley Johnson.

The other two players who put up great numbers a while ago that might need to be considered are Greg Kohls and Bill Smith. If there was a 3 point circle when Kohls played, his impressive numbers would have been crazy. The problem with these two is that in those days, SU was a regional program. They didn't play a very good schedule and I think you have to take that into account when considering them for this team. There is a reason they didn't get named to AA teams.

Anyway, let's consider AA teams. Here is a list of all SU AAs in basketball from the great orangehoops site.

My rule is you have to make at least one AA team in your career in order to be considered (HM doesn't count).

Helms Foundation AAs
Lew Castle (twice)
Joe Schwartzer
Bob Marcus
Vic Hanson (three times)
Billy Gabor (twice, but a 30 man team)

I feel forced to ignore the other Helms AAs as they all were members of 30 to 36 members teams. Too big to be meaningful).

AP AAs

DuVal (3rd team)
Hackett (2nd team)
Pearl (3rd team twice)
Sherman (third team, first team)
DC (first name, national player of the year)
Billy (first team)
Moten (third team)
JW (second team)
Melo (second team; ha!)
Hakim (third team; first team)
Wes Johnson (first team)
CJ Fair (third team)
Rak (third team)

My list:

1. Hanson
2. Bing
3. DC
4. Sherman
5. Billy Owens
6. Hakim
7. Melo
8. JW
9. Wes Johnson
10. Pearl
11. Moten
12. tie: Schwartzer/Castle/Gabor/Hackett

Awesome post. I also am surprised about some of the comments about Owens. Granted I was in my early teens when he played and I think sometimes players we really liked as kids tend to get blown up in our minds as the years go by. But I agree with you and General - I thought he was fantastic.

 

[Eric15]

Why does Rudy Hackett never get a sniff on these lists, and I know Bees is a big Bill Smith fan.

Probably because to have watched Hackett and appreciated him, you have to be at least in your late 50s. Most posters simply don't know anything about him.

 

[Eric15]

My rule is you have to make at least one AA team in your career in order to be considered (HM doesn't count).
9. Wes Johnson

Tomcat, I consider you to always be a voice of reason, but putting Wes on this list instead of GMac is incomprehensible to me.

 

[sutomcat]

Tomcat, I consider you to always be a voice of reason, but putting Wes on this list instead of GMac is incomprehensible to me.

Syracuse has had a ton of great players over its long and illustrious history. Even if you limit your top 12 to only players who have made AA teams, there are going to be a lot of outstanding players who will not make the cut.

If you look at that orangehoops link I referenced, SU probably has had 30 players or so get named to one AA team or another (again not counting HM AAs). Limiting the choices to only 12 means a lot of AA players or near AA players are not going to make the cut.

In his one year at Syracuse, Wes was named a first team AA. I think he was a consensus first team AA. When deciding who makes the top 12 players ever, that is (to me anyway) a huge distinction that needs to be heavily considered.

It is not a dig on GMac, or Bill Smith, or Sweet D, or Rak, or CJ or Vinnie Cohen, Rony Seikaly, Rosie Bouie or any of the other great players I was not able to find room for in my list.

 

[OttoMets]

Owens was a very frustrating player. All the talent in the world but low basketball IQ. Especially hard to watch because he made mistakes that I wouldn't make, and that's saying something. You could see them coming a mile away.

As for the Richmond game, yes he got his points. I could be wrong but I think he had a bunch of turnovers (much like Warrick/Vermont).

22 points on 19 shots, you could say there were some turnovers that didn't show up in the stat line.

Billy was a great player who could do everything but, in my opinion, was missing some small intangible piece. He belongs in a top-8, for sure, but there's a reason we don't remember him with the same regard as Anthony or Wallace.

 

[Shawn91111]

22 points on 19 shots, you could say there were some turnovers that didn't show up in the stat line.

Billy was a great player who could do everything but, in my opinion, was missing some small intangible piece. He belongs in a top-8, for sure, but there's a reason we don't remember him with the same regard as Anthony or Wallace.

Who is "we"? I think for the most part people hold Owens in a higher regard than Wallace. At least reading this board and talking to Orange fans

 

[OttoMets]

Who is "we"? I think for the most part people hold Owens in a higher regard than Wallace. At least reading this board and talking to Orange fans

Guess so, there's no monolithic Orange group. Seems to me that Wallace is generally up there at the top of the Pantheon, but everyone's got different opinions.

 

[721Comstock]

47.4% from three begs to differ with you.

The 3 point line was closer then.
And that is literally the ONLY thing he did.
AND he was typically on the court with 3-4 NBA quality players, so he wasn't getting 1/100th the defensive attn that a guy like Cooney did/does.

Roe shot 31% from 3 at Maryland, when he no longer had guys like Sherm, DC, Seikaly, Stevie, and Billy Owens around him.

 

[senorpalmer]

Interesting reading the varying opinions in this thread. The way one chooses to rate a player can vary, depends on how much you value pure talent, accomplishments and statistics. I tend to rate Wallace just ahead of Owens, probably just on the strength of his heroics in the 96 tournament. Owens was the better talent but Wallace was also one of the best talents to play at SU, and raw talent doesn't always win out over the other qualities that make a great player. I couldn't consider GMac to be a top 12 talent at SU but he may well have had one of the 12 best careers of any former Orangeman.

 

[newmexicuse]

Rudy Hackett?

He was the star of our first FF team. He average over 22 & 12 that season & I believe he averaged over 17 & 11 for his career.

To put in perspective, that first FF team was probably more of a long shot to make the FF than was this season's team.

That team only went about 4 deep. We had Hackett, another solid starting forward in Chris Sease, and two small, but very talented jitterbug guards in Williams and Lee who could really shoot.

The problem was at center where we had a space eater in Earnie Siebert who made Craig Forth look lie a sleek olympic sprinter. I liked Earnie but his conditioning and skills were simply not of a FF caliber.

I don't re-call much about any bench players from that team.

 

[JarHeadJim]

I would rather have Greg Monroe as my SG over Matt Roe.

 

[cuseinseattle]

not even close. Watch the 87 ncaa tournament highlights,

I've watched all those games. I'm not saying I don't like Seikaly. He had like 20 some points against UNC and played out of his mind. He also had Coleman and Sherman on the team. He was the 3rd best player. I love both players but I think Etan is really underrated and under appreciated. He had a backcourt of Jason Hart and Allen Griffin for gods sake. I hate these threads because I love every kid that ever played at Syracuse. I'm less criticizing Rony as I am praising Etan if that makes sense.