toughest schools to recruit at | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

toughest schools to recruit at

What aspects though?
Not saying that in a jerky way, either...I'm asking honestly

Isn't one of the reasons people are so excited about Coach Babers is the use of the dome's advantage with a pass oriented offense? I've read through the threads how Coach Babers offense would finally utilize the natural advantages of playing in the dome yet no mention here.

We have no pro teams to compete with like Miami, Pitt and BC. Miami and Pitt are both off campus where it's difficult for even students to attend.
 
Kansas State doesn't recruit well either, but they're also in a hotbed of jucos.

The recruiting cycle has changed so much, it's killing the remote-from-talent programs, of which you guys are unfortunately one. But it hits any school with not much talent close by. The days are gone when kids took their official visits as seniors, and after taking all five, chose their school.

It's all about unofficial visits now. Look at all the kids who are committed as juniors or younger. You're not even allowed to take an official that soon, but kids are committing. In many cases, when a school is close by, before a kid is even a senior, he's been on unofficial visits, game days, camps etc a dozen times.

How is Syracuse, BC, Nebraska, etc going to compete for true national level kids from the south or west in that scenario anymore? That's why when anything less than an Ohio State level program pulls a kid out of the south, he might be a nice player, but he's rarely one the local school have made a priority.

Of course, the thing with unofficial visits is that the school can't pay for them. The kid or his family "has" to pay for them. Now, if an assistant coach or a parent from a school four hours away drives up 4-5 hours away drives up five kids from one team for a weekend, maybe some gas money somehow finds it's way into their pocket and some generous soul finds them a place to stay.

When you're a plane ride away, you can't play that game. You'll have a handful of well-off white quarterbacks and linemen whose parents might have the dough and inclination to fly to different campuses on unofficials, but that's few and far between.

Even the kids that are a reasonable and affordable drive away, it's not nearly as easy to get them in early much because of how lightly concentrated they are. Kids frequently come together and share the expense, or a high school or 7 on 7 coach drives a group. While there might be desirable kids drivable to Syracuse, there's unlikely to be a bunch that know each other that are Syracuse quality that can share the expense to come together over an over.

That's the biggest reason why Syracuse is one of the toughest places to recruit to, and there's almost nothing you can do about it. Has nothing to do with how nice the school is or the history of the program.

The only semi solution for those schools is to get an early signing day in place, along with the ability to pay for official visits junior year. That would give schools like Syracuse a fighting chance. I'm against it, because I think it's a very bad deal for the kid, and also frankly because the current arrangement gives FSU a huge advantage. Not over it's regional peers, but at least against schools from outside the region trying to come in and get kids.

But you should be very strongly for it.

Talent within a certain radius is certainly a factor, but not the main factor. It doesn't even explain Florida much less the rest of the country. By this one standard, Miami should be a perennial power and USF and UCF would have been powerhouses years ago. This is a popular, but oversimplified explanation.

Everybody recruits Florida (and Georgia) and many schools pull great talent out of Florida every year. Clemson is about 8 hours from Tampa and yet, Clemson would not be Clemson without its Florida talent. The same is true for many ACC schools, including North Carolina, Louisville and Duke. - all more distant than even Clemson.

This statement is simply silly. "That's why when anything less than an Ohio State level program pulls a kid out of the south, he might be a nice player, but he's rarely one the local school have made a priority."

There is a built in regulator on the amount of top talent that Florida schools can keep in the state. True, they may have first choice on many - but not all top recruits. Everybody is not only limited to 85 scholarships, but more importantly by the 2 deep. There can only be one starting QB and players are more than ever looking for the opportunity to play early.

Syracuse's decline in football is IMO squarely on the shoulders of past administrations that buried their heads for decades. We allowed ourselves to reach the point where we had some of the worst facilities in major CFB. We didn't react to the decline in NYS HS football by failing to make inroads in Florida and Georgia. We then failed to spend enough money to attract and retain top quality coaches.

Times they are a changing. SU administration clearly gets it. The Chancellor and AD have acted swiftly and decisively.

We now have competitive facilities, coaches with a winning history, $20 million more per year in ACC revenues. We will pull the recruits we need from FL, GA and NC that we need in addition to others from Midwestern states.
 
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Winning history??? To an out-of-state 18 year old we are a loser with rotating no-name coaches toiling away in Siberia. We are a safety P5 school. People thought that because we are in the ACC we will improve (by osmosis?), but it doesn't work that way. Ask Rutgirls. Good luck to Babers, he has a lot on his plate. Like everyone else, I have my fingers crossed.

The beginning of the end was when McNabb failed to get Dog Torturer to fill his shoes. It was the end of our mojo. At times things have looked up, but playing in a meaningless no-name bowl is as far as we got in the lifespan of our recruits. That is the history that counts.
 
Winning history??? To an out-of-state 18 year old we are a loser with rotating no-name coaches toiling away in Siberia. We are a safety P5 school. People thought that because we are in the ACC we will improve (by osmosis?), but it doesn't work that way. Ask Rutgirls. Good luck to Babers, he has a lot on his plate. Like everyone else, I have my fingers crossed.

The beginning of the end was when McNabb failed to get Dog Torturer to fill his shoes. It was the end of our mojo. At times things have looked up, but playing in a meaningless no-name bowl is as far as we got in the lifespan of our recruits. That is the history that counts.
Vick or no Vick, the program was headed to the basement. Sure four more years on the back of a great college player, but the failure to invest in the program would have yieled the same results - just a bit later.
 
I think weather has got to be a huge factor and it kills us. Why would you want to go to a school where you don't see the sun 6 months of the year?
 
orangenauburn said:
Winning cures all Think kids are dying to go to Manhattan...Kansas? Not really, but they will for Bill Snyder
Manhattan kansas makes syracuse look like the french riviera.
 
Babers and this staff will rock recruiting for Syracuse. HCSS did a nice job upgrading our talent but really didnt have the full advantage of the IPF or the ACC. Dino is going to take it to the next level.
 
I think weather has got to be a huge factor and it kills us. Why would you want to go to a school where you don't see the sun 6 months of the year?

Ohio State, Notre Dame, Penn State, Michigan, etc.

I think "bad weather" is an overused excuse by both miserable CNYers with a giant inferiority complex, and lazy out of towners making the obvious and cheap weather joke because they don't know any better. The "bad weather" has no effect on our basketball recruiting, does it?
 
Winning history??? To an out-of-state 18 year old we are a loser with rotating no-name coaches toiling away in Siberia. We are a safety P5 school. People thought that because we are in the ACC we will improve (by osmosis?), but it doesn't work that way. Ask Rutgirls. Good luck to Babers, he has a lot on his plate. Like everyone else, I have my fingers crossed.

The beginning of the end was when McNabb failed to get Dog Torturer to fill his shoes. It was the end of our mojo. At times things have looked up, but playing in a meaningless no-name bowl is as far as we got in the lifespan of our recruits. That is the history that counts.

Not everybody is clueless about any history that they don't remember. In fact, with the internet it's easier than ever to be up on sports history. Some kids care, some don't.

When I was a kid there were programs that were not good at the time and hadn't been for awhile, but I was aware they had strong football tradition....Pitt and LSU being good examples.
 
Vick or no Vick, the program was headed to the basement. Sure four more years on the back of a great college player, but the failure to invest in the program would have yieled the same results - just a bit later.
Maybe things would have played out differently if the team continued to win and generate revenue?
 
Ohio State, Notre Dame, Penn State, Michigan, etc.

I think "bad weather" is an overused excuse by both miserable CNYers with a giant inferiority complex, and lazy out of towners making the obvious and cheap weather joke because they don't know any better. The "bad weather" has no effect on our basketball recruiting, does it?

Those schools are traditional powerhouses. Our basketball program is a powerhouse. Our football program is not.

I'm just saying climate does us no favors.

Also we get more snow and colder than most of those places.
 
Those schools are traditional powerhouses. Our basketball program is a powerhouse. Our football program is not.

I'm just saying climate does us no favors.

Also we get more snow and colder than most of those places.

Our football program has a good share of tradition itself, and it wasn't that long ago that our school was basically equal in both sports(probably until the 2003 NC).

Climate may not do us any favors, but on a list of reasons for why recruits pick schools I don't think climate is typically one of the top reasons. I mean, if you look at the top 25 there's no real pattern there. There's plenty of cold climates represented: Michigan St, Iowa, OSU, ND, Northwestern, Michigan, Temple. There's all the Texas, Florida, Miss. Alabama climates that natives may like and others find disgusting for much of the year, and then the climates that generally seem either very pleasant or at least non-offensive for most of the year: UNC, Clemson, USC, Oregon, Stanford, maybe Navy.

The difference in our cold/snow and those other places really isn't much. "If you're bleak, you're bleak." - Costanza
 
Recruiting is easiest at schools that "pay" the players the most i.e. best dorms, most free stuff, etc. If you get what you pay for with coaches then it's the same with players.

Oh and sweeping those r@pe investigations under the rug. That makes it an easy sell.
 
Those schools are traditional powerhouses. Our basketball program is a powerhouse. Our football program is not.

I'm just saying climate does us no favors.

Also we get more snow and colder than most of those places.

Football just like basketball in Syracuse is played indoors. Syracuse and Ann Arbor (University of Michigan) have almost the exact temperature highs and lows in fact there are a number of months that Syracuse has higher temperatures. Plus we play indoors and they all play outside. It's all a cop-out so the repeated negativity just gets accepted as fact. We are our own worst enemy. Madison, Wisconsin and Lansing Michigan (Michigan St) both have colder weather than us but you don't hear the negativity about U of Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan St, Notre Dame etc like you do with the fans and media about Syracuse. Not meant for you personally but the overall whining about weather is pretty disheartening and misleading. We allow people to perpetuate these myths and our supposed incomparable weather obstacles. It's a shallow excuse. If people don't believe me -see below.

Sorry to sound cantankerous or an obnoxious know-it-all (well maybe obnoxious but I definitely don't know it all - lol) - maybe I should add complaining about the weather as a big personal pet peeve to that thread too.
:p

http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/ann-arbor/michigan/united-states/usmi0028

http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/syracuse/new-york/united-states/usny2737

http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/madison/wisconsin/united-states/uswi0411

http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/lansing/michigan/united-states/usmi0477

http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/south-bend/indiana/united-states/usin0624
 
I have a PhD in physics but folks this is not rocket science. Draw a line around your State (NY for you guys, and MA for BC) and make sure you contact every recruit in the State that you would like to have - your IPF facility and plaza with statues is good - and the dome will be renovated I think - camp out on their doorstep or whatever the NCAA allows and get them to visit you - for NY recruits it is indeed a short trip. You need to "head off at the pass" especially Big 10, etc., teams coming in as interlopers. Then go into the Carolinas, Virginia, Georgia, and Florida and "beat the bushes" so to speak. If the NCAA does not shut down the Summer football camps (Harbaugh holding a Michigan camp in Alabama, etc.) you may want to go that route too as that will introduce your coaching staff to HS athletes in the neighborhood.

For BC, they need an IPF (rather than operating that inflatable "bubble") and some other renovations in facilities (and for the fans improvement in the "tailgating experience"). It's all possible and with the new CFB $$$ coming into the ACC it is extremely doable.
 
I think weather has got to be a huge factor and it kills us. Why would you want to go to a school where you don't see the sun 6 months of the year?
Minnesota and Wisconsin are going to get killed, too.
 
Maybe things would have played out differently if the team continued to win and generate revenue?

Why?The revenue that it had generated never went toward keeping the program strong to that point.Why do you think that would have suddenly changed?
 
This list is crap. Period. It's all about perception. I doubt any of those people have seen Syracuse's facilities, or really know what our budget is for the program.

Not too long ago, Stuart Mandel did his old Kings, Barons, Knights, and Peasants thing and Syracuse was in the Barons with Clemson, Georgia, etc. Funny, because Baylor at the time was a peasant. It's all about perception, and winning changes everything. It's not as if NY was a hotbed of football recruiting back then either Lou.

http://www.collegeandmagnolia.com/2007/8/11/9336/04270
 
This list is crap. Period. It's all about perception. I doubt any of those people have seen Syracuse's facilities, or really know what our budget is for the program.

Not too long ago, Stuart Mandel did his old Kings, Barons, Knights, and Peasants thing and Syracuse was in the Barons with Clemson, Georgia, etc. Funny, because Baylor at the time was a peasant. It's all about perception, and winning changes everything. It's not as if NY was a hotbed of football recruiting back then either Lou.

http://www.collegeandmagnolia.com/2007/8/11/9336/04270
I remembered that article back in the day...
 
Six hour radii, Detroit, DC, Boston, Montreal.

The density of talent might not be as great for a bunch of reasons, but the population size is huge.

A 6-3 215 kid that can run is a 6-3 215 kid that can run in Buffalo as much as in Miami, he just hasn't played as much football. What Babers is bringing is like an immersion language class, and it's simple for the skilled kids, with tons of practice reps.

It shouldn't be impossible to find 15 to 20 high end kids to come to this school and supplement with Fla and a sprinkling of national recruits and a couple Juco's every year.

You know the OL/DL are in that area, same with the semi skilled TE's, LB's and DE's.

Go to Fla for corners and WR's, recruit nationally for QB's.
 
Six hour radii, Detroit, DC, Boston, Montreal.

The density of talent might not be as great for a bunch of reasons, but the population size is huge.

A 6-3 215 kid that can run is a 6-3 215 kid that can run in Buffalo as much as in Miami, he just hasn't played as much football. What Babers is bringing is like an immersion language class, and it's simple for the skilled kids, with tons of practice reps.

It shouldn't be impossible to find 15 to 20 high end kids to come to this school and supplement with Fla and a sprinkling of national recruits and a couple Juco's every year.

You know the OL/DL are in that area, same with the semi skilled TE's, LB's and DE's.

Go to Fla for corners and WR's, recruit nationally for QB's.

In NY, the 6'3" 215 athletic kid is playing basketball as his first sport most of the time. Same with tight end types, this is especially true in NYC.
 
Ohio State, Notre Dame, Penn State, Michigan, etc.

I think "bad weather" is an overused excuse by both miserable CNYers with a giant inferiority complex, and lazy out of towners making the obvious and cheap weather joke because they don't know any better. The "bad weather" has no effect on our basketball recruiting, does it?
North Dakota State wins the FCS every year weather doesnt seem to bother them. If they can recruit enough kids to beat KSU, Iowa State, and Minnesota to Fargo we should do just fine
 

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