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tbonezone

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kristof ongenaut vs. michael gbinije. impact on team performance. discuss.

smb_081112_dn_ongenaet.jpg
Michael-Gbinije.jpg
 
Ongenaut did a lot of things to help the team even when he didn't score. Gbinije needs to score to be of any benefit.
 
not really. refresher. Kristof started 15 games his first year (19 mpg.) but just 12 his second (15mpg).
link : http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/syracuse/kris-ongenaet
big difference i suppose is kristof (affectionately aka "foreign dude" in some circles) came from nowhere.
whenever i hear silent G first thought is always duke.
link : http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/syracuse/michael-gbinije
take a look at the differing point trends. have we fully embraced SG as we did Kong?
we're razor thin at guard . the minutes are there if he wants them. and are we seeing the maximum hustle?

alg-ongenaet-jpg.jpg


(edit. statsheet is a fun link to play with. pick your player and parameters and they graph anything.)
 
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Kristoff was a force - he was a disrupter and the ultimate hustler - no comparo !!!!
 
Gbinije is worlds better than Ongenaet. Yes he hustled and I'm sure he was a great person but KO really didn't belong at an SU type high-end D1 program. He played for us out of necessity and I don't think he would have seen a minute of meaningful action had he been on any of our teams from the past 4-ish years. I don't mean to just crush him b/c he definitely did play hard and probably up to his full potential but I feel like there's a lot of revisionist history going on r.e. how our fanbase remembers him.

I'm a big fan of Gbinije. He reminds me a lot of Triche his freshman year. Gives you some ball handling, defense, makes a 3 from time-to-time. Shows glimpses where he can take it to the rim and create something but isn't ready to do it consistently yet. I have very high hopes for what Gbinije will contribute next year.

Edit: to be fair (IIRC) KO did come through for us in some big games his final season, so he definitely does get credit for that.
 
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Good thing your tread was about transfere "in" not transfers "out" or you would be told to go to the penalty box.
 
Too early and really more of an apples to oranges comparison. There were expectations associated with SG, whereas KO was an unknown entity.

One thing that I do know, if someone were to put together an Orange "All Effort" team then KO would be on it.
 
KO is one of my all-time favorites. Half the time he ran around like a chicken with its head cut off, but every once in a while he made a great play that made you semi-fist pump in a weird way. Kid had great hustle.
 
KO was a good role player. Hustled his a$$ off and gave a lot of heart.

Gbinije is also a marvelous role player who hustles his a$$ off.

To people saying that Gbinije is worthless because he's not scoring consistently... consider the fact that he's in most of the time for his defense at the top of the key.
 
Is it my memory or did KO play awful until about halfway through the season, in both of his years here?

I feel like I remember him shooting about 25% from the field a good 15-20 games into his senior year. But then he came on strong towards the end of the year and had some really good performances in big wins. Has to be the SU career leader in fouling 3 point shooters. Limited skills, but he played hard.

Gbinije has more skills. I feel like he would be more effective as a cog within an actual good offense. He's shown the ability to make great passes into the post, doesn't force anything, makes the right plays, and can score a bit. Put him on the 2010 team and he'd thrive and be a guy who makes the offense run even better. This current offense is so broken(no post scorers, few shooters, no flow, nothing coming easily) , and he's not the individual talent who can make something out of nothing.
 
To simplify things:

KO in his first year here: 19.2m 9.3p 9.3r 2.1a 1.4s 1.2b 23.3+ 3.0mfg 1.3mft 2.6to 4.9pf 11.8- = 11.5NP 5.0OE 6.5FG

G-man in his first year here: 14.7m 9.5p 4.9r 3.3a 2.3s 0.5b 20.5+ 4.6mfg 1.4mft 1.4to 4.5pf 11.9- = 8.6NP 3.5OE 5.1FG

KO played more minutes rebounded much more but didn't pass as well, got fewer steals but more blocks, missed fewer shots, turned it over more but didn't foul much more despite being am much more aggressive player. What isn't measured here is all the loose balls he got to and the way he inspired the crowd and directly or indirectly, his teammates. He's clearly the better player.

Here is KO's second year: 13.9m 8.1p 12.6r 3.3a 1.9s 1.5b 27.4+ 3.0mfg 1.9mft 2.4to 5.7pf 13.0- = 14.4NP 3.2OE 11.2FG

He actually played less, (we had fewer injuries in 2008-09 than the previous year and Rick Jackson was starting to come into his own), and scored less but became a tremendous rebounder and passed the ball as well as G-man has this year. he did have more turnovers and fouls. But he was still a better player overall than he had been the previous year and was much superior to what we've seen out of G-man this year.

The question is: what will we see out of G-man next year? I thin k he'll continue to play good defense. I don't think he'll ever be much of a rebounder. I'd like to see less tentative play and a lot more scoring. Not a scoring machine but a guy who will take greater advantage of the opportunities available to him.

It's not really a great comparison because KO was more of a front-court guy and G-man is more of a swing man. The real compsrison is between Michael Gbinije and what Michael Gbinije can be, which more than we've seen this year.
 
Trueblue25 said:
consider the fact that he's in most of the time for his defense at the top of the key.

That's not true at all. Most of his minutes are to give Cooney or Ennis a rest and more recently play some at SF.
 
Gbinije is worlds better than Ongenaet. Yes he hustled and I'm sure he was a great person but KO really didn't belong at an SU type high-end D1 program. He played for us out of necessity and I don't think he would have seen a minute of meaningful action had he been on any of our teams from the past 4-ish years. I don't mean to just crush him b/c he definitely did play hard and probably up to his full potential but I feel like there's a lot of revisionist history going on r.e. how our fanbase remembers him.

I'm a big fan of Gbinije. He reminds me a lot of Triche his freshman year. Gives you some ball handling, defense, makes a 3 from time-to-time. Shows glimpses where he can take it to the rim and create something but isn't ready to do it consistently yet. I have very high hopes for what Gbinije will contribute next year.

Edit: to be fair (IIRC) KO did come through for us in some big games his final season, so he definitely does get credit for that.
Yet, how much would you like to have Ongenaet on the bench right now?
 
KO was a good role player. Hustled his a$$ off and gave a lot of heart.

Gbinije is also a marvelous role player who hustles his a$$ off.

To people saying that Gbinije is worthless because he's not scoring consistently... consider the fact that he's in most of the time for his defense at the top of the key.

Anyone who really thinks any of our kids are worthless is a loser of epic proportions...just sayin'
 
kong showed steady improvement through out his first season. as noted second season he lost minutes as rick jackson began to emerge but still provided some spark off the bench. the spark is what gbinije is lacking imo.
 
As a fan of MG and one who is most familiar with his situation, I can say without a doubt that he will be a much different player next year in terms of his offense. Quite too often we tend to focus on the outcome more than the process.

On Defense
When Gbinije is playing on the perimeter, teams tend to shoot less 3's and penetrate less.

On offense
Unfortunately, Mike is not a player who hunts his shots or force anything unless he has to. In highschool and AAU he was the number 1 option on offense and he delivered when put in the right situations. In his college career so far he does not view himself as an option due to his role on the team. Hence, he tends to be tentative and defers to those for whom the plays are often designed (Fair and Cooney). Gbinije is not a great 3 point shooter like Cooney, but is capable of knocking down 3's when he is open. I have seen in many games when Ennis and Fair would ingnore or not look at Gbinije when he is wide open on the opposite side. I believe if he gets as many opportunities as Cooney, he will make a few more than he has made.

Rebound
The stats clearly show that Mike is not rebounding enough; however, he always seems to be pressuring the ball along the perimeter, contesting shots, covering for slower teammates, and always attemting to blocks shots closer to the basket, which quite often puts him in a disadvantaged rebounding position.
 
Yet, how much would you like to have Ongenaet on the bench right now?
When your bench is only 6.5 deep, it's nice to have another reliable .5 available... especially when a starter is working through an injury. With KO, Syracuse beats GA Tech and probably BC.
 
That's not true at all. Most of his minutes are to give Cooney or Ennis a rest and more recently play some at SF.

Or the fact that Cooney and Ennis, though steals leaders, are at times almost non existent defending the top of the zone.
 
Trueblue25 said:
Or the fact that Cooney and Ennis, though steals leaders, are at times almost non existent defending the top of the zone.

Again, he doesn't come in as a defensive replacement except when we are going to press.
 
Also here's something for thought, KO was supporting cast for Kris Joseph, Rick Jackson, Andy Rautins, Arinze Onuaku, Paul Harris and Erik Devendorf.

Mike G's supporting cast for...well whatever the hell we are right now.

Edit: These two players are not comparable at this time. I think/know G will end up being the better college basketball player.

Edit #2: Jesus I forgot Jonny Flynn too. It's easier to be more effective on one of the best college basketball teams of the decade.
 
KO was a good role player. Hustled his a$$ off and gave a lot of heart.

Gbinije is also a marvelous role player who hustles his a$$ off.

To people saying that Gbinije is worthless because he's not scoring consistently... consider the fact that he's in most of the time for his defense at the top of the key.

I know G is your dude, but "marvelous" is seriously overstating things.
 

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