Are we done with adding players for 2024-25?

[SUFan44]

I am out of town and have to listen to Infanti and Scibilia to get my Orange fix.

They are of the opinion that:

1) We won’t add another starting caliber player from the portal.
2) The team will be fine with what we have.

I think this take is incorrect, and if it is correct, we are in trouble.

Unless Westry stays healthy and is the impact guy we need as a lead guard-type player, or Carlos suddenly learns to hit 3’s, I don’t know how this team is going to be the best version of what it could be. Not enough shooting again, and counting on a point guard that has never played at this level.

The whole point of adding both Leffew and Carlos was to have a variety of experienced options. We don’t have that, in my opinion. I do think our center and forward positions are in better shape than they were last year but I am not convinced a PG from Hofstra will be a 30 mpg impact starter on NCAA tournament team in the ACC.

Looking less and less likely that we add anyone of significance. And I, for one, am not optimistic next year is markedly better than this past one.

 

[Orangezoo]

Looking less and less likely that we add anyone of significance. And I, for one, am not optimistic next year is markedly better than this past one.

I’ll wager a guess we add another wing/guard who can contribute, snag a project for the frontcourt and then give the last schollie to walk on.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don’t think you’re making the point you think you are. Patterson and Westry didn’t see the floor and Carey and Hima were disappointments even by the lowest of expectations. That’s four scholarships that gave SU nothing.

8-9 players is all you need if you have the right guys.

Yeah, you play nearly 40 games in 5 months as teenagers. Injuries are going to happen. I don't see how that's feasible.

 

[SUFan44]

I’ll wager a guess we add another wing/guard who can contribute, snag a project for the frontcourt and then give the last schollie to walk on.

I would like to know what "contribute" means to you.

I guess we'll find out.

 

[Orangezoo]

I would like to know what "contribute" means to you.

I guess we'll find out.

It means will play minutes that matter and produce to help the team. That could be a wide range depending on how the staff sees things and what’s left to leverage for NIL

 

[Hopkins16]

A lot of good players who were in the portal are no longer available. That isn't good for us if we are relying on the Carlos kid, Cuffe, Starling and the unknown Westry to run the point. Our season depends on the health and durability of Westry.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A lot of good players who were in the portal are no longer available. That isn't good for us if we are relying on the Carlos kid, Cuffe, Starling and the unknown Westry to run the point. Our season depends on the health and durability of Westry.

Don’t forget Moore, but I agree that this backcourt appears weak for the ACC.

 

[Orangezoo]

Don’t forget Moore, but I agree that this backcourt appears weak for the ACC.

On paper it does for sure. Although on paper our backcourt was strong last year and it wasn’t nearly as good as expected. Maybe we get lucky and fate hands us a different outcome this year?

 

[jsshap]

I'm actually writing a book vaguely about this topic... The belief systems of large enough groups of people manifest that belief or alter the reality to be more in line with that belief system. If course, the problems start when an alternate belief system is in direct opposition. Wars become a battle of morale in a much more tangible way than even our own real world.

In most sports, where there is no tangible benefit to being the home team (unlike baseball, where the home team bats last for instance) what causes the home team to have such an advantage? It seems to be the belief of the crowd that the home team should win.

Plus, Momentum is real, especially when talking about basketball!

Way off topic now.

That's cool. Good luck to you. Note there is also a significant advantage in hockey with matchups.

 

[Niastri]

That's cool. Good luck to you. Note there is also a significant advantage in hockey with matchups.

Very true! Last line change is huge in hockey.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I don’t think you’re making the point you think you are. Patterson and Westry didn’t see the floor and Carey and Hima were disappointments even by the lowest of expectations. That’s four scholarships that gave SU nothing.

8-9 players is all you need if you have the right guys.

my point is choosing to have an 8 or 9 man roster is a bad idea - yeah maybe player 9-13 are non-entities...but its better to have them than nothing. maybe they are actually good players, though, too (i know we havent had that lately...but it does happen frequently in the sport...that unheralded players actually are pretty good)

the coaches planned on westry benny and mcleod all being key factors...and they werent ...and werent available for almost all of the season...but how can anyone predict that? better to make a contingency by having backups on the roster

carey was needed in certain games but couldnt play as well

point being unexpected things happen

dont even have to talk about foul trouble as well...

why put yourself in a precarious sitation unnecessarily???


not sure why the coaches brough Hima back when thy clearly refused to use him at all...that was weird...i think it was more of a "loyalty family" thing

am I happy that the coaches picked so many "duds" that had zero chance of helping the team last year? no. i think that was a huge mistake...which is my point...and needs to get beter if this staff wants to survive long term

this weird kinda logic that players 9-13 dont usually do anything so just leave their spots unfilled makes no sense

"if you have the right guys"

thats something you wont know until the season is underway...

what if youre wrong? what if things happen???

this whole convo is simple:

do you purpusefully leave schoolies unfilled and go with a short bench? or do you fill all schollies?

for me it is a no-brainer to fill them...for multiple reasons

im sure cal would love it if all the other teams only used 8 or 9 schollies...and im sure he wont only fill 8 or 9, either

guy is a charlatan

why anyone drinks his koolaid is beyond me

he had his pick of any high school player for 10 years and did zilch

 

[Sherman20]

A lot of good players who were in the portal are no longer available. That isn't good for us if we are relying on the Carlos kid, Cuffe, Starling and the unknown Westry to run the point. Our season depends on the health and durability of Westry.

I like our backcourt options. I think people are being unnecessarily negative. Carlos is going to be a very good PG imo, and if Chance is healthy we’ll have a really athletic player with excellent vision who can play backup PG and SF. That said, I’d love to add a shooter like August Mahoney from Yale, who’s from Saratoga Springs originally.

 

[djcon57]

Carlos is going to be a very good PG imo

I'm rooting for J.Carlos, but quantify this thought for me as I see it a lot here.

A PG who couldn't make the any of the ALL Colonial teams, not even honorable mention. A 0.4 BPM. Average defensive numbers, but ALL League defender per coaches. Decent assist numbers. They had the Colonial Player of the Year on their team and couldn't make the tourney in the last 2 years. I watched most of the Duke game from this year and he was ok. 9 assists, but 0-3 from 3 and got burned by Roach a bunch.

So basically...question for the board...

What do you see/did you see that suggests Carlos is a VERY GOOD ACC level PG?
Is it simply "Red thinks he's good"?
Is it something you saw in video?
The way he fits on the team with Bell, Starling, Freeman?

I can see him being a serviceable guard who puts in quality mins, but the idea of rolling him out 30 mins a night in ACC play scares me if we're trying to be a serious tourney team. But maybe it's simply being the piece of the puzzle we need...and obviously if he's sharing mins with Westry, great. Personally, I'm not counting anything from CW until I see it, but he could be lights out if he can stay on the court

 

[dasher]

I'm rooting for J.Carlos, but quantify this thought for me as I see it a lot here.

A PG who couldn't make the any of the ALL Colonial teams, not even honorable mention. A 0.4 BPM. Average defensive numbers, but ALL League defender per coaches. Decent assist numbers. They had the Colonial Player of the Year on their team and couldn't make the tourney in the last 2 years. I watched most of the Duke game from this year and he was ok. 9 assists, but 0-3 from 3 and got burned by Roach a bunch.

So basically...question for the board...

What do you see/did you see that suggests Carlos is a VERY GOOD ACC level PG?
Is it simply "Red thinks he's good"?
Is it something you saw in video?
The way he fits on the team with Bell, Starling, Freeman?

I can see him being a serviceable guard who puts in quality mins, but the idea of rolling him out 30 mins a night in ACC play scares me if we're trying to be a serious tourney team. But maybe it's simply being the piece of the puzzle we need...and obviously if he's sharing mins with Westry, great. Personally, I'm not counting anything from CW until I see it, but he could be lights out if he can stay on the court

I wouldn't be able to pick Carlos out of a lineup if my life depended on it. So, I have no idea what he can or can't do. Red says he really likes him and I won't say who he reminds him of. But a really good former Syracuse players. I like that he was a 90% free throw shooter last year. That can help us late in games.

 

[djcon57]

I wouldn't be able to pick Carlos out of a lineup if my life depended on it. So, I have no idea what he can or can't do. Red says he really likes him and I won't say who he reminds him of. But a really good former Syracuse players. I like that he was a 90% free throw shooter last year. That can help us late in games.

Good pt on the FTs. Only shot 2 a game though, but 90% is great for those end of game spots like you said.

 

[dasher]

Good pt on the FTs. Only shot 2 a game though, but 90% is great for those end of game spots like you said.

Well, when we are winning at the end of 30 of our games, he will get to the line more.

 

[two3zone]

I wouldn't be able to pick Carlos out of a lineup if my life depended on it. So, I have no idea what he can or can't do. Red says he really likes him and I won't say who he reminds him of. But a really good former Syracuse players. I like that he was a 90% free throw shooter last year. That can help us late in games.

Flynn

 

[Cusedad2X]

That's cool. Good luck to you. Note there is also a significant advantage in hockey with matchups.

Knowing your home rink boards in hockey (dead or bouncy) can be used as an advantage. The placement and noise of home fans can also create an advantage.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Flynn

Red must be taking those good gummies if he thinks that.

 

[Sbucketball]

Flynn

I was gonna guess he said Sherman Douglas light.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If only we had a stretch big (he begged for the 1,000th time, LOL).

Lampkin is a poor man's Arinze inside.
If MacLeod is healthy, he could be Jeremy McNeil.

If we had one more guy, 6-8 or 6-9, 230-240, who can step out and hit 30-35% from three, that gives us a missing piece in a game of match-ups.

We need a Sean Kerins, Bobby Lazor, (poor man's) Tyler Lydon type of guy.

Look in the MAAC, American, Big East, MAC, Atlantic 10, Colonial and Patriot Leagues.

There has to be a Taylor Coppenrath or Luke Southerland, the kid from LeMoyne, out there. We could use that piece.

Noah Waterman good enough for you? I know we debated a bit last week, but count me in.

 

[Melancer46]

I'm rooting for J.Carlos, but quantify this thought for me as I see it a lot here.

A PG who couldn't make the any of the ALL Colonial teams, not even honorable mention. A 0.4 BPM. Average defensive numbers, but ALL League defender per coaches. Decent assist numbers. They had the Colonial Player of the Year on their team and couldn't make the tourney in the last 2 years. I watched most of the Duke game from this year and he was ok. 9 assists, but 0-3 from 3 and got burned by Roach a bunch.

So basically...question for the board...

What do you see/did you see that suggests Carlos is a VERY GOOD ACC level PG?
Is it simply "Red thinks he's good"?
Is it something you saw in video?
The way he fits on the team with Bell, Starling, Freeman?

I can see him being a serviceable guard who puts in quality mins, but the idea of rolling him out 30 mins a night in ACC play scares me if we're trying to be a serious tourney team. But maybe it's simply being the piece of the puzzle we need...and obviously if he's sharing mins with Westry, great. Personally, I'm not counting anything from CW until I see it, but he could be lights out if he can stay on the court

I'm not sure how good he'll really be, but if the rest of our guys showed zero improvement from this past season, I don't think Carlos would be our worst starter and I do at least think he plays the way Autry wants a PG to play. Hoping he'll be one of those guys where his impact is greater than his individual stats; I do think he can potentially make things easier for our teammates with his throw-ahead passes for example.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Noah Waterman good enough for you? I know we debated a bit last week, but count me in.

Somebody like him would be perfect!

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm rooting for J.Carlos, but quantify this thought for me as I see it a lot here.

A PG who couldn't make the any of the ALL Colonial teams, not even honorable mention. A 0.4 BPM. Average defensive numbers, but ALL League defender per coaches. Decent assist numbers. They had the Colonial Player of the Year on their team and couldn't make the tourney in the last 2 years. I watched most of the Duke game from this year and he was ok. 9 assists, but 0-3 from 3 and got burned by Roach a bunch.

So basically...question for the board...

What do you see/did you see that suggests Carlos is a VERY GOOD ACC level PG?
Is it simply "Red thinks he's good"?
Is it something you saw in video?
The way he fits on the team with Bell, Starling, Freeman?

I can see him being a serviceable guard who puts in quality mins, but the idea of rolling him out 30 mins a night in ACC play scares me if we're trying to be a serious tourney team. But maybe it's simply being the piece of the puzzle we need...and obviously if he's sharing mins with Westry, great. Personally, I'm not counting anything from CW until I see it, but he could be lights out if he can stay on the court

If you're looking at him as a 30 minute guy, I understand the concern.
He's not an All ACC kind of player. I don't think he has to be, though, to be effective.
I see him as a 20 minute a game piece of the rotation, not a "starter" per se.

So, if you look at him through that lens, I see a guy who is good enough to add certain skills that other guys don't have on this team. That doesn't mean we need his skills all game long.

Look at him like he's a better version of Symir Torrence, and you won't be disappointed. He can hit a 3 at a respectable rate (6% better than Judah last year). He has shot 80-90% from the line the last 2 years. Again, better than Judah. Those are Girard type numbers, and he will likely be on the floor at the end of games if we are ahead.

And he generated 6 assists a game. That's very good. I don't care who you play.

He doesn't have to be a star. Other guys have bigger roles on this team. He's a very good piece.

 

[longtimefan]

my point is choosing to have an 8 or 9 man roster is a bad idea - yeah maybe player 9-13 are non-entities...but its better to have them than nothing. maybe they are actually good players, though, too (i know we havent had that lately...but it does happen frequently in the sport...that unheralded players actually are pretty good)

the coaches planned on westry benny and mcleod all being key factors...and they werent ...and werent available for almost all of the season...but how can anyone predict that? better to make a contingency by having backups on the roster

carey was needed in certain games but couldnt play as well

point being unexpected things happen

dont even have to talk about foul trouble as well...

why put yourself in a precarious sitation unnecessarily???


not sure why the coaches brough Hima back when thy clearly refused to use him at all...that was weird...i think it was more of a "loyalty family" thing

am I happy that the coaches picked so many "duds" that had zero chance of helping the team last year? no. i think that was a huge mistake...which is my point...and needs to get beter if this staff wants to survive long term

this weird kinda logic that players 9-13 dont usually do anything so just leave their spots unfilled makes no sense

"if you have the right guys"

thats something you wont know until the season is underway...

what if youre wrong? what if things happen???

this whole convo is simple:

do you purpusefully leave schoolies unfilled and go with a short bench? or do you fill all schollies?

for me it is a no-brainer to fill them...for multiple reasons

im sure cal would love it if all the other teams only used 8 or 9 schollies...and im sure he wont only fill 8 or 9, either

guy is a charlatan

why anyone drinks his koolaid is beyond me

he had his pick of any high school player for 10 years and did zilch

If players 10-13 are young (freshmen, sophs) and have decent skills, they will hit the portal. And, increasingly, if they are juniors or seniors, they will hit the portal, even if they have previously transferred. If they are offered a big enough "bag" they will hit the portal. Of course, the bag part can apply to players 1-9. It's the world in which we live.