Transfers, Recruitment, Sanctions and Feeling Dirty

[Nicknack]

There are obviously many things about the sanctions handed down to us that I don't like. The scholarship reduction is easily the worst of them all. I really hate the fact that it has gotten to a point where if a guy isn't producing as quickly as we want, most want those players to leave so it will open space for someone who can be more of a factor now rather than later. It just feels dirty. There are so many guys who ended up being major factors for us who didn't produce early on (i.e. Rak being one of many). It really sucks, but it's the situation we are in which is why if we got Chukwu, I too would probably want to see Chino go in order to open up a much need scholarship. I'm not passing judgment because I'm one who feels this way too (i.e. Patterson, Johnson, possibly Chino, etc.). However, I just don't like the feeling of hoping that one of our own will leave but with our predicament, it's unfortunately how we need to approach this in order to remain competitive.

 

[bballbeadle]

It's like we're in a vise being squeezed. The integrity of being a fan, of being loyal, is now being put to the test. It's very unpleasant, I agree, particularly since the qualities of college bb that many of us prize - watching development of a player, the feeling of community, the sense of pride watching "our" kids - are sacrificed for the new world order caused by sanctions.

It's way too early for me to be contemplating these things. I'm going for a walk!

 

[RF2044]

It's like we're in a vise being squeezed. The integrity of being a fan, of being loyal, is now being put to the test. It's very unpleasant, I agree, particularly since the qualities of college bb that many of us prize - watching development of a player, the feeling of community, the sense of pride watching "our" kids - are sacrificed for the new world order caused by sanctions.

It's way too early for me to be contemplating these things. I'm going for a walk!

Good analogy.

I agree--the NCAA sanctions we received were designed to squeeze the life out of the program for the remainder of JB's tenure. There simply is no other explanation for us receiving such unprecedentally harsh penalties. Their intent was to screw us vis a vis recruiting, by making it difficult for us to land Bryant / Battle [and yes, I do believe that the NCAA was being that capricious and specific, as evidenced by how the scholarship restrictions were worded]. Mission accomplished.

But like most thoroughly corrupt organizations, they don't understand that they can't just do anything that they want--and I'd expect the school's legal challenge to bear fruit, given how generally ineffectual of an enforcement body the NCAA is, to say nothing of their selective enforcement / disproportionate way that they mete out punishment.

I honestly won't be satisfied until I see the whole NCAA organization perish in flames. Can't wait to see Emert go down with the ship, and for the P5 to break away from that outdated, antiquated, hypocritical oligarchy.

 

[Brooky03]

I don't feel dirty. There's only one serious incident out of all the allegations and it seems isolated. I'm not going to let the NCAA dictate my feelings or tell me what is and is not cheating; given the evidence, we're all capable of figuring that out for ourselves.

I don't feel bad about any of the transfers either. Assuming the coaching staff was honest and told them there likely wasn't going to be much playing time for them in the near future, it's best that the players find better situations for themselves. The alternative is that the players stay on the bench for another year or two, which doesn't serve their interests well, and the coaches have to avoid bringing in more suitable players, which doesn't serve the program or fans' interests.

For full disclosure, I don't remember ever hoping a player would leave. If it happens, though, and it helps the program, then so be it.

 

[Consigliere]

There are obviously many things about the sanctions handed down to us that I don't like. The scholarship reduction is easily the worst of them all. I really hate the fact that it has gotten to a point where if a guy isn't producing as quickly as we want, most want those players to leave so it will open space for someone who can be more of a factor now rather than later. It just feels dirty. There are so many guys who ended up being major factors for us who didn't produce early on (i.e. Rak being one of many). It really sucks, but it's the situation we are in which is why if we got Chukwu, I too would probably want to see Chino go in order to open up a much need scholarship. I'm not passing judgment because I'm one who feels this way too (i.e. Patterson, Johnson, possibly Chino, etc.). However, I just don't like the feeling of hoping that one of our own will leave but with our predicament, it's unfortunately how we need to approach this in order to remain competitive.

Following that scenario through it would be tough for Chino to go anyway. Thanks to the NCAA he only had 4 years to play 3 so if he were to transfer and sit out a year he would only have one season left.

That decision still baffles me. Forget hoops, here is a kid who is being deprived a red shirt season that would give him 5 years to complete his course work toward a degree. Not sure what kind of student Chino but here's another example of punishing the student in the name of athletics.

 

[SUintheVille]

I agree--the NCAA sanctions we received were designed to squeeze the life out of the program for the remainder of JB's tenure. There simply is no other explanation for us receiving such unprecedentally harsh penalties. Their intent was to screw us vis a vis recruiting, by making it difficult for us to land Bryant / Battle [and yes, I do believe that the NCAA was being that capricious; as evidenced by how the scholarship restrictions were worded]. Mission accomplished.

But like most thoroughly corrupt organizations, they don't understand that they can't just do anything that they want--and I'd expect the school's legal challenge to bear fruit, given how generally ineffectual of an enforcement body the NCAA is, to say nothing of their selective enforcement / disproportionate way that they mete out punishment.

I honestly won't be satisfied until I see the whole NCAA organization perish in flames. Can't wait to see Emert go down with the ship, and for the P5 to break away from that outdated, antiquated, hypocritical oligarchy.

Tell us what you really think!

 

[Nicknack]

I don't feel dirty. There's only one serious incident out of all the allegations and it seems isolated. I'm not going to let the NCAA dictate my feelings or tell me what is and is not cheating; given the evidence, we're all capable of figuring that out for ourselves.

I don't feel bad about any of the transfers either. Assuming the coaching staff was honest and told them there likely wasn't going to be much playing time for them in the near future, it's best that the players find better situations for themselves. The alternative is that the players stay on the bench for another year or two, which doesn't serve their interests well, and the coaches have to avoid bringing in more suitable players, which doesn't serve the program or fans' interests.

For full disclosure, I don't remember ever hoping a player would leave. If it happens, though, and it helps the program, then so be it.

First, I could give two rips about the NCAA. What I don't feel great about is when it comes time to hoping a guy will transfer (one of our own). However, because of the predicament we are in, that's what we face from time to time in order to stay competitive. Go back and read some threads around the time that Johnson and Patterson left... many here were hoping they would both transfer and the main reason was so that we would have a scholarship open for Bryant. Had we not received a scholarship reduction, most here would not want to have seen Johnson leave. I still think he could have ended up being a good player for us but we just don't have the luxury right now to have developmental players. With Patterson, the writing was on the wall with or without the scholarship reduction.

 

[Brooky03]

First, I could give two rips about the NCAA. What I don't feel great about is when it comes time to hoping a guy will transfer (one of our own). However, because of the predicament we are in, that's what we face from time to time in order to stay competitive. Go back and read some threads around the time that Johnson and Patterson left... many here were hoping they would both transfer and the main reason was so that we would have a scholarship open for Bryant. Had we not received a scholarship reduction, most here would not want to have seen Johnson leave. I still think he could have ended up being a good player for us but we just don't have the luxury right now to have developmental players. With Patterson, the writing was on the wall with or without the scholarship reduction.

I was in the camp that wanted Johnson to stay. He could have been a Demetris Nichols type and exploded as an upperclassmen, but it's unclear how much of an opportunity he was going to get as a junior and if he would capitalize on it. Demetris had the luxury of starting as a junior with nobody really competing for playing time at SF. BJ wasn't going to get that, even as a senior, even if we had 13 scholarships.

This sounds very cold, but he was replaceable. I don't think the Bryant situation had or should have had any impact on his decision to transfer either. From what I've heard on here, the coaching staff essentially stopped recruiting Bryant a few months before his decision. This seems to indicate that they just wanted to start the punishment as soon as possible. We all had a feeling Patterson would be gone, and the coaches must feel confident that Lydon (and Richardson if he plays any SF), would be sufficient replacements for BJ

 

[Nicknack]

I was in the camp that wanted Johnson to stay. He could have been a Demetris Nichols type and exploded as an upperclassmen, but it's unclear how much of an opportunity he was going to get as a junior and if he would capitalize on it. Demetris had the luxury of starting as a junior with nobody really competing for playing time at SF. BJ wasn't going to get that, even as a senior, even if we had 13 scholarships.

This sounds very cold, but he was replaceable. I don't think the Bryant situation had or should have had any impact on his decision to transfer either. From what I've heard on here, the coaching staff essentially stopped recruiting Bryant a few months before his decision. This seems to indicate that they just wanted to start the punishment as soon as possible. We all had a feeling Patterson would be gone, and the coaches must feel confident that Lydon (and Richardson if he plays any SF), would be sufficient replacements for BJ

I don't disagree with much of what you are saying but you don't seem to be getting my point. I've already stated it twice so I'll let it go.

 

[Col. Bleep]

There are obviously many things about the sanctions handed down to us that I don't like. The scholarship reduction is easily the worst of them all.

For some of us, worse than the sanctions - even the lost scholarships - is the academic cheating to try to keep our starting center eligible.

 

[Nicknack]

For some of us, worse than the sanctions - even the lost scholarships - is the academic cheating to try to keep our starting center eligible.

Meh... no biggie, it's just academics. I'm hanging with a UNC grad right now.

 

[reedny]

For some of us, worse than the sanctions - even the lost scholarships - is the academic cheating to try to keep our starting center eligible.

That was ugly, no doubt. But it was one kid. With 650+ SA's every year, and our program under an NCAA microscope covering the better part of 10 years, I would be shocked if any P5 program could match that record. Certainly UNC can't.

As far as the OP, I'm not sure I'd use the word "dirty". It's certainly disappointing and unfortunate having to face a scholarship bottleneck like this. I think running a clean program means being honest with your SA's about their playing chances, and keeping their best interests at heart. But we got whacked with a 2 x 4 ... I don't think any recruit would fault us for making tough decisions in that context.

Also, over the years JB has never relied on one-and-done D-League philosophy where the only part of a player's future he would concern himself with was his draft order. It's the opposite .. we keep most players for 4 years and they develop in all areas (academically, athletically, etc..). So I still feel good about our program, but lousy about our current predicament.

 

[jordoo]

I think no matter how much our individual opinions and feelings may differ on the specific aspects of the sanctions and the fall out of them, we can likely all agree that its been a tough period for us as fans.

 

[Nicknack]

That's fine and all, Jordoo... but I'm still wondering why the OP didn't put this thread in the "NCAA Stuff" subsection of the forum. What a jerk. He can't even follow the most simple of rules and guidelines.

 

[longtimefan]

For some of us, worse than the sanctions - even the lost scholarships - is the academic cheating to try to keep our starting center eligible.

The "academic cheating" is not a sanction. It was the action that led to sanctions.

 

[Brooky03]

I don't disagree with much of what you are saying but you don't seem to be getting my point. I've already stated it twice so I'll let it go.

I wasn't necessarily trying to disagree with you. I think I understood your point just fine, but it's no biggie.


edit: oh and

 

[SBU72]

There are obviously many things about the sanctions handed down to us that I don't like. The scholarship reduction is easily the worst of them all. I really hate the fact that it has gotten to a point where if a guy isn't producing as quickly as we want, most want those players to leave so it will open space for someone who can be more of a factor now rather than later. It just feels dirty. There are so many guys who ended up being major factors for us who didn't produce early on (i.e. Rak being one of many). It really sucks, but it's the situation we are in which is why if we got Chukwu, I too would probably want to see Chino go in order to open up a much need scholarship. I'm not passing judgment because I'm one who feels this way too (i.e. Patterson, Johnson, possibly Chino, etc.). However, I just don't like the feeling of hoping that one of our own will leave but with our predicament, it's unfortunately how we need to approach this in order to remain competitive.

While what you have to say has merit, I look at this way, it's only 4 years. Actually 3 now. And more like 2. JB has the class coming in now that was suppose to. 2016 class was only going to be 2 anyways with Cooney and G graduating. The transfers plus McCullough just allow the sanctions to start earlier. So basically what is done is done. So really the only ones under real pressure to show their "worth" is the incoming one because once SU gets beyond that, it doesn't make a lot of sense asking kids to leave over one more year of a short bench.