Transfers

[orangehomer]

Still on that kick that White and Gillon were the problem this season?? Brilliant. Where would we have been without them?

we would have been out of the NCAA tournament, just like we were with them

 

[orangehomer]

It isn't what we did with them. It's what we would have been without them. White was the only Orangeman do make a all ACC team. can you imagine our offense without him? Or Gillon? yeah, Howard and Roberson full time. Good lord.

you can't make it zero sum, we gave up on some players in order to wind up with these players. maybe there were other kids that could have got us to the NIT.

 

[dasher]

we would have been out of the NCAA tournament, just like we were with them

It isa ridiculous argument that you are making and I believe you are smart enough to know that. Would you rather have gone through a winter where we won no exciting games against good teams? Come on. I will take a andrew white every year. It was the Syracuse guys that held us back. we got nothing from Coleman. We got nothing from Howard. We got nothing from Roberson. They were the problem. They were all starting when we lost those early season games. JB's mistake was starting them.

 

[dasher]

you can't make it zero sum, we gave up on some players in order to wind up with these players. maybe there were other kids that could have got us to the NIT.

first, they were already gone. second, none of them were as good as the players we got. As I just said, it was our own Orangemen that gave us NOTHING that got us in the soup. If Jb had benched Roberson and Howard at the start of the season, we would have made the tournament.

 

[pfister1]

Oh I agree. White and Gillon were good for us. White in particular will go down as one of my favorites. I love shooting forwards in the White/Southerland/Nichols mold. And Gillon's heroics were what makes being a fan worth it.

That said... for one season I can get why we went that route. The staff wasn't ready for Malachi to go, or for Book Worm Assassin to be a bust, and we had the scholarship reductions.

Two seasons in a row though, because we crapped the bed recruiting highschool point guard talent. Eh...

Yeah except that we've basically known that this was the case since Quade chose UK, so having to go the grad transfer route next year to get some reliable help at the PG is not exactly a new consideration. We won't be out of the "all of the eggs in the Quade basket" until we bring in a quality freshman PG and those guys are all off the board.

 

[dasher]

Yeah except that we've basically known that this was the case since Quade chose UK, so having to go the grad transfer route next year to get some reliable help at the PG is not exactly a new consideration. We won't be out of the "all of the eggs in the Quade basket" until we bring in a quality freshman PG and those guys are all off the board.

Eric Ayala is still out there. If he re qualifies for '17, we would have ourselves a good pt guard.

 

[pfister1]

Eric Ayala is still out there. If he re qualifies for '17, we would have ourselves a good pt guard.

I'm having trouble keeping the scouting reports straight, but I thought Ayala was more of a combo? Is it Duarte and not Ayala who is likely to have qualification problems?

 

[dasher]

I'm having trouble keeping the scouting reports straight, but I thought Ayala was more of a combo? Is it Duarte and not Ayala who is likely to have qualification problems?

Ayala is a combo guard. Having said that, that doesn't mean he won't do a great job as a pt here. They both might have issues but for different reasons. Duarte is a clearinghouse issue. He is not from this country and I would bet that there would be a hold up on him getting cleared. Ayala is or might be trying to get in the class of '17 and that might be a problem depending on test scores and courses.

 

[MSOrange]

you can't make it zero sum, we gave up on some players in order to wind up with these players. maybe there were other kids that could have got us to the NIT.

Which players did we give up on?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If we get them, I'll support them and be a fan.

But I don't like the strategy. The ideas people were throwing around about being Grad Transfer U... that sounds terrible to me.

Shouldn't have to worry about academics with grad transfers. That will help.

 

[All4SU]

up the scholie numbers by 2 . smaller schools ain't gonna like it but their kids ain't jumping early.
basketball has changed dramatically the last decade and we need to keep up with the new reality.

We keep going the wrong direction on these things: add scholarships; pay players; add games. We need to go the opppsite direction.

 

[SWC75]

Our problem this year wasn't grad transfers, (without whom we wouldn't won 10 games). It was defense. If we are better next year it will be because of defense.

 

[Hoo's That]

Our board's consensus on grad transfers is that they're great at filling an immediate need but you don't want to have success depend on picking one up each year. Gill, Thompson, and Nicholls were our most recent undergrad transfers under Bennett. I believe he recruited all three of them for UVa before they decided to go to USC-e, Tennessee, and Memphis, respectively, so they weren't totally unfamiliar.

 

[Cowtown]

Sometimes transfers work out, sometimes they don't.

Completely correct. Just like scholarship players: Kaleb Joseph, Ron Patterson, BJ Johnson, and everyone's favorite whipping boy, Devin Brennan-McBride. So if we can't advance the program with our own 4th year layers, we're committed to doing it with someone else's. Either that or we go the Paypal Cal route.

 

[Cowtown]

Our problem this year wasn't grad transfers, (without whom we wouldn't won 10 games). It was defense. If we are better next year it will be because of defense.

Someone gets it. Our defense was so bad this year it made many of the games almost unwatchable. Because they never seemed to learn and kept making the same mistakes over and over and over ...

 

[SWC75]

Someone gets it. Our defense was so bad this year it made many of the games almost unwatchable. Because they never seemed to learn and kept making the same mistakes over and over and over ...

The games were watchable. I don't recall having so many excitng games. When you win by 15 all the time, the games are less exciting. You don't have to be exciting to win them, Exciting seasons are another subject.

 

[Cowtown]

The games were watchable. I don't recall having so many excitng games. When you win by 15 all the time, the games are less exciting. You don't have to be exciting to win them, Exciting seasons are another subject.

I guess we watch for different things.

 

[TinyManInside]

SU is largely a program school and the quality of JB's zone is often tied to how much experience the players have playing it. It's hard to field a good zone when 4 of your 5 starters have never played it before. Continuity and cohesion is pretty important to JB's system and carrying over experienced players from year to year has been a pretty big problem lately due to the combination of players leaving school early for the draft and other players failing to develop and transferring.

The grad transfer market is tough because 1) you might be getting a kid that has only played m2m for his entire college career and now has to learn a pretty complex defensive system in a short period of time, and 2) you really have no idea who is going to be on the market starting in March/April, so the quality of the grad transfer pool can be vastly different from year to year, and you only have a small window to shop for them.

What happens if no decent 5th year PG is available? You're in a bind if you're relying on that as a primary recruiting tool. Best as a stop-gap measure or fill-in for a single roster spot but not sure it's a great strategy if it turns into an annual thing where we need to grab 2+ per year... It worked out quite well this season (we would have been TERRIBLE without Gillon and White), but it also had some downside as we saw how long it took those 2 to get comfortable in the zone.

Mason

 

[OttoMets]

Our problem this year wasn't grad transfers, (without whom we wouldn't won 10 games). It was defense. If we are better next year it will be because of defense.

Not interested in this argument in the slightest, but this is a funny post.

Because the two graduate transfers might have been two of our worst three starting defenders.

 

[jr4750]

Not interested in this argument in the slightest, but this is a funny post.

Because the two graduate transfers might have been two of our worst three starting defenders.

by far, but they were our best and at least tied for 3rd best, offensive players. What bothered me was how many offensive weapons we had, and we couldn't out score opponents consistently. It happened at times, but, obviously not enough. It also took getting down in the second half to light a fuse. In contrast, watching Kansas play offense was sheer joy. I didn't see them as being a great defensive team at all, but they could score so fast and easily, they were never out of a game. Save for the elite 8, where they literally couldn't make anything in the second half, and still had a shot at winning. They moved the ball, and played with such precision. I realize they had better talent, in almost every position, save for SG, but, we definitely struggled on both ends this year. I want our offense to get better as much as our defense. Maybe more.

 

[TinyManInside]

I want our offense to get better as much as our defense. Maybe more.

Look at the scores in the tournament this year. Very few games are 54-50 rock fights like so many of the games between 2009-2014. Offense is on an upswing and I think SU has to be more proactive in addressing this trend. So many of the tournament games are being played in the 80s this year. Makes for a much more enjoyable watching experience IMO.

 

[RF2044]

Look at the scores in the tournament this year. Very few games are 54-50 rock fights like so many of the games between 2009-2014. Offense is on an upswing and I think SU has to be more proactive in addressing this trend. So many of the tournament games are being played in the 80s this year. Makes for a much more enjoyable watching experience IMO.

Watching the Oregon game the other night, I kept thinking how THAT is the offense we should have. Multiple shooters, but multiple guys who can also do stuff off of the bounce and take it to the basket... which makes them very difficult to guard.

The last few years, seems like we're improved as a shooting team, but the ball handling has tapered off dramatically [outside of one or maybe two guys per season]. Makes us too one dimensional. Conversely, four out of Oregon's starters can shoot and excel taking it to the tin. They make people pay for overplaying them defensively or jumping out at them to challenge the shot. They also have multiple guys who can do something when it gets late in the shot clock.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Look at the scores in the tournament this year. Very few games are 54-50 rock fights like so many of the games between 2009-2014. Offense is on an upswing and I think SU has to be more proactive in addressing this trend. So many of the tournament games are being played in the 80s this year. Makes for a much more enjoyable watching experience IMO.

That trend has been apparent for a few years or more now. SU needs to catch up more than be proactive, IMO.

 

[OttoMets]

by far, but they were our best and at least tied for 3rd best, offensive players. What bothered me was how many offensive weapons we had, and we couldn't out score opponents consistently. It happened at times, but, obviously not enough. It also took getting down in the second half to light a fuse. In contrast, watching Kansas play offense was sheer joy. I didn't see them as being a great defensive team at all, but they could score so fast and easily, they were never out of a game. Save for the elite 8, where they literally couldn't make anything in the second half, and still had a shot at winning. They moved the ball, and played with such precision. I realize they had better talent, in almost every position, save for SG, but, we definitely struggled on both ends this year. I want our offense to get better as much as our defense. Maybe more.

Yeah, I wouldn't wish for bad defense, but good offense is a great thing to watch. I'll give up a little defense for that.

 

[tbonezone]

the fact that JB typically has 2 or 3 kids playing out of their natural positions does us no favors.