Truly disgusted, sad and furious | Syracusefan.com

Truly disgusted, sad and furious

Rocco

Watching you.
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These ridiculous acts of violence need to end. I am not trying to take anything away from the people who have been killed in the recent shootings elsewhere, but this one really hits home. These kids were in kindergarden. Are you kidding me? Makes me sick to my stomach. If your life is so bad, why the hell do you need to take out other peoples' lives, especially truly innocent children? Piece of .

Also makes me sick that people want to bitch about gun control laws during times like this. Take your foot off the political gas pedal and show some compassion. I really begin to lose faith in human beings at times. These poor families are dealing with the worst thing that could have ever happened to them, but you want to bicker back and forth and sling your political strong arms into the mix. Give me a break.

God Bless the victims and their grieving families.
 
The back and forth I see on twitter and facebook and here and other places on the 'net...honestly, just bums me out. If this can't bring us together, what can? An alien attack? The evil Nazis/Soviets/Muslims aren't coming through that door. This is us vs us.

...or maybe this country just needs a break from virtual debate myself included.
 
I wish, just once, that one of these guys would get caught by ordinary citizens right before they succeeded in killing anyone. It would be great to see them gang tackled, disarmed, and then pummeled into oblivion before the police arrived. Make them have to eat from a straw for the rest of their lives.
 
The back and forth I see on twitter and facebook and here and other places on the 'net...honestly, just bums me out. If this can't bring us together, what can? An alien attack? The evil Nazis/Soviets/Muslims aren't coming through that door. This is us vs us.

...or maybe this country just needs a break from virtual debate myself included.

This is why I read the story then shut everything else down for a few days/weeks. No need in getting myself worked up over other people's beliefs.
 
People who think taking guns away from people that won't do these things will stop them from happening are as short sighted as they get.
How do you know for sure?
 
People who think taking guns away from people that won't do these things will stop them from happening are as short sighted as they get.

Surely you've heard of gun owners having their houses burglarized and having their legally-purchased guns used to commit crimes?
 
Surely you've heard of gun owners having their houses burglarized and having their legally-purchased guns used to commit crimes?

On the same token, you've also heard of people robbing a gun shop and using them in a crime too, right?

The problem is people that are this sick and twisted will commit their evil crimes one way or another. Gun control is something people like to throw around as an end all. Not that simple.
 
On the same token, you've also heard of people robbing a gun shop and using them in a crime too, right?

The problem is people that are this sick and twisted will commit their evil crimes one way or another. Gun control is something people like to throw around as an end all. Not that simple.

Not simple, not an end-all - no law is, of course. Certainly a useful tool in limiting the frequency of these horrific crimes, though.
 
Not simple, not an end-all - no law is, of course. Certainly a useful tool in limiting the frequency of these horrific crimes, though.

These twisted bastards will find a way perform their evil crimes, one way or another, gun control or not. One would hope that these events would be limited, but no one really knows for sure. You can't fix a bad egg.

There is a fundamental problem with certain members of society. Unfortunately, that won't ever change. That is the biggest problem of all.
 
These twisted bastards will find a way perform their evil crimes, one way or another, gun control or not. One would hope that these events would be limited, but no one really knows for sure. You can't fix a bad egg.

There is a fundamental problem with certain members of society. Unfortunately, that won't ever change. That is the biggest problem of all.

I've never owned a gun in my life.I've never had a problem with other people owning them. It changed for me today. INNOCENT LITTLE 5 YEAR OLDS!! Anybody defending their right to own firearms today(meaning today 12/15/12) should be locked up.
 
I've never owned a gun in my life.I've never had a problem with other people owning them. It changed for me today. INNOCENT LITTLE 5 YEAR OLDS!! Anybody defending their right to own firearms today(meaning today 12/15/12) should be locked up.

Owning what most people consider a firearm, and owning weapons that allow someone to kill 27 people in minutes, are two entirely separate arguments.

Most people believe in the right to own a gun for hunting, or personal protection. But those killed in Newtown, including 20 children, were killed with guns having no useful purpose other than to kill large numbers of people, quickly.
 
Owning what most people consider a firearm, and owning weapons that allow someone to kill 27 people in minutes, are two entirely separate arguments.

Most people believe in the right to own a gun for hunting, or personal protection. But those killed in Newtown, including 20 children, were killed with guns having no useful purpose other than to kill large numbers of people, quickly.

Agree. As a lifelong hunter, I value guns for what they are meant. I'm not advocating banning guns, simply having stronger laws regarding them.
 
I've never owned a gun in my life.I've never had a problem with other people owning them. It changed for me today. INNOCENT LITTLE 5 YEAR OLDS!! Anybody defending their right to own firearms today(meaning today 12/15/12) should be locked up.
That could be the stupidest comment I have ever read on this board. Dcuse- you are the winner.
 
Agree. As a lifelong hunter, I value guns for what they are meant. I'm not advocating banning guns, simply having stronger laws regarding them.

I completely agree real. My whole family hunts and frankly, we have rifles and shotguns.

These are the reported guns the kid used (also had a .223-cal rifle in the car that wasn't used in the mass shooting):

Glock


Sig Sauer (unclear of the series)



All of these guns were owned by the mother, who was killed at her home before the school shootings.

News reports coming out now that the kid suffered from a personality disorder (unclear of what exactly).

Something triggered him to go off. He went to his mother's home, took her guns, killed her then killed 26 more.

It is a tragedy beyond comprehension.

The issue more centers around the person, not the guns, in this situation. We need to focus on helping these twisted people, not preventing perfectly good citizens from owning firearms IMO.
 
That could be the stupidest comment I have ever read on this board. Dcuse- you are the winner.


Great response. You've turned me back around. You have the perfect handle.
 
I completely agree real. My whole family hunts and frankly, we have rifles and shotguns.

These are the reported guns the kid used (also had a .223-cal rifle in the car that wasn't used in the mass shooting):

Glock


Sig Sauer (unclear of the series)



All of these guns were owned by the mother, who was killed at her home before the school shootings.

News reports coming out now that the kid suffered from a personality disorder (unclear of what exactly).

Something triggered him to go off. He went to his mother's home, took her guns, killed her then killed 26 more.

It is a tragedy beyond comprehension.

The issue more centers around the person, not the guns, in this situation. We need to focus on helping these twisted people, not preventing perfectly good citizens from owning firearms IMO.

Reports that he lived with his mother.
 
These are the reported guns the kid used (also had a .223-cal rifle in the car that wasn't used in the mass shooting):

Not true.

"Authorities found three guns next to Lanza's body in one of the classrooms, a law enforcement source told CNN. All three -- a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer -- were owned by Lanza's mother, the source said."
 
Not true.

"Authorities found three guns next to Lanza's body in one of the classrooms, a law enforcement source told CNN. All three -- a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer -- were owned by Lanza's mother, the source said."

Not according to Fox News...

"The vehicle the suspect drove to the school was registered to his mother. At least three guns were found -- a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, inside the school, and a .223-caliber rifle in the back of a car, authorities said."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/15/at-least-26-dead-in-shooting-at-connecticut-school/#ixzz2F91rTExo
 
Surely you've heard of gun owners having their houses burglarized and having their legally-purchased guns used to commit crimes?

The OP says, can we try and refrain from political debate during these difficult times? And another says... If an act as abhorrent as this can't bring us together then nothing will...

And then we get this...

The amazing privilege of reading these thought provoking and downright inspiring, agenda driven one liners! The OP says this is terrible and it's classless to use these times to further ones agenda. AND... "show some compassion. I really begin to lose faith in human beings at times."

HELLO... HE WAS TALKING TO YOU...THE HUMAN BEINGS!

Did the OP say it's time to have a debate on gun control? Wow, it's almost like you all just said what families AND what victims? Um...It's innocent children, I understand bad timing and poor taste in the debate over Jimmy V, but were talking about innocent kids here...

Really amazing, SMH (shaking my head) The second or third response tosses an agenda against the wall, then immediately the trap is set. How long will it take? Yeah... just seconds to get a deeply witty counter-point.

Not calling anyone out here but I think the original poster had other intentions. After reading it, I don't think his thoughtful, intelligent post was written to set the stage for the mud-slingers. He was trying to elicit a response from human beings. That's definitely not what he got.

Seriously can we wait till next week for these discussions, is a few days too much to ask? Can we memorialize the innocent children first? It seems our political differences have polarized our people out of rational and compassionate human thought. As this great nation's golden age comes to a close and continues it's political and financial leveling off on the world's stage; I'm terrified our failure to suppress blame and control blind political rage will send us into a downward financial-spiral much quicker and deeper than it would otherwise be. We need much more rational & compassionate thought from our Human Beings than we are getting today.

Please for the love of god, try not to sit home for several days like a sheep with a super sized bag of popcorn, gobbling up the artificial compassion spewed by the news media. They will fabricate a "blame game" and three ring circus of political debate... aka HUGE ratings frenzy during what should be a somber period of mourning. Taking your family out to dinner & a movie or simply changing the channel, we can all prohibit the media from allowing the memorial and mourning to become the sideshow.

If you choose to debate, it may be wise to wait until the emotions have run their course. If not for a more productive debate, then do it for the families of the innocent children who as yet... have not been laid to rest.
 
The OP says, can we try and refrain from political debate during these difficult times? And another says... If an act as abhorrent as this can't bring us together then nothing will...

And then we get this...

The amazing privilege of reading these thought provoking and downright inspiring, agenda driven one liners! The OP says this is terrible and it's classless to use these times to further ones agenda. AND... "show some compassion. I really begin to lose faith in human beings at times."

HELLO... HE WAS TALKING TO YOU...THE HUMAN BEINGS!

Did the OP say it's time to have a debate on gun control? Wow, it's almost like you all just said what families AND what victims? Um...It's innocent children, I understand bad timing and poor taste in the debate over Jimmy V, but were talking about innocent kids here...

Really amazing, SMH (shaking my head) The second or third response tosses an agenda against the wall, then immediately the trap is set. How long will it take? Yeah... just seconds to get a deeply witty counter-point.

Not calling anyone out here but I think the original poster had other intentions. After reading it, I don't think his thoughtful, intelligent post was written to set the stage for the mud-slingers. He was trying to elicit a response from human beings. That's definitely not what he got.

Seriously can we wait till next week for these discussions, is a few days too much to ask? Can we memorialize the innocent children first? It seems our political differences have polarized our people out of rational and compassionate human thought. As this great nation's golden age comes to a close and continues it's political and financial leveling off on the world's stage; I'm terrified our failure to suppress blame and control blind political rage will send us into a downward financial-spiral much quicker and deeper than it would otherwise be. We need much more rational & compassionate thought from our Human Beings than we are getting today.

Please for the love of god, try not to sit home for several days like a sheep with a super sized bag of popcorn, gobbling up the artificial compassion spewed by the news media. They will fabricate a "blame game" and three ring circus of political debate... aka HUGE ratings frenzy during what should be a somber period of mourning. Taking your family out to dinner & a movie or simply changing the channel, we can all prohibit the media from allowing the memorial and mourning to become the sideshow.

If you choose to debate, it may be wise to wait until the emotions have run their course. If not for a more productive debate, then do it for the families of the innocent children who as yet... have not been laid to rest.

This is not a political debate.
 
"Please for the love of god, try not to sit home for several days like a sheep with a super sized bag of popcorn, gobbling up the artificial compassion spewed by the news media. They will fabricate a "blame game" and three ring circus of political debate... aka HUGE ratings frenzy during what should be a somber period of mourning. Taking your family out to dinner & a movie or simply changing the channel, we can all prohibit the media from allowing the memorial and mourning to become the sideshow.
If you choose to debate, it may be wise to wait until the emotions have run their course. If not for a more productive debate, then do it for the families of the innocent children who as yet... have not been laid to rest. "
Quote-SyracuesFan

I think you are underestimating the intelligence of the majority of the posters on this board. I for one am listening and reading with a great deal of thoughtfulness. The media, for the most part, have tried to do a complete and compassionate job. If you believe they have used artificial compassion, you haven't watched very closely. Seasoned reporters are having difficulty giving the news about this tragedy even to the point of being rendered speechless with tears running down their face.

We have been told to wait to debate for a period of time after each one of these senseless acts. Why, so the NRA can get their sideshow on the road? There is no more feared lobby in DC. It's time that there was a debate without them holding a gun to the head of congressmen (in the form of campaigning against them). Bob Schieffer(sp?) wanted a representative or senator to talk about gun control on his Sunday program. Suddenly, they all had previous engagements. I worry much more about a single entity (NRA) wielding that kind of power than I do about us going over any fiscal cliff.

A sensible debate is long overdue. I wager if you asked the parents of these murdered children, they would say, "Go for it"!
 
I'm not going to debate but I can share some resources:

All you can do is your own research:

Kleck, G., Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America. New York, Aldine De Gruyter, 1991. ISBN 0-202-30419-1.
Kleck, G., Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control. New York, Aldine De Gruyter, 1997. ISBN 0-202-30569.
Lott, J. R., More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws. Chicago, University of Chicago Press, 1998. ISBN 0-226-49363-6.
Kopel, D. B., The Samurai, The Mountie, and the Cowboy: Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies? New York, Prometheus Books, 1992. ISBN 0-87975-756-6.

------------------------------------------------
maiyp

maiyp


The 15 leading causes of death in 2009 were:
1.
Diseases of heart (heart disease)
2.
Malignant neoplasms (cancer)
3.
Chronic lower respiratory diseases
4.
Cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
5.
Accidents (unintentional injuries)
6.
Alzheimer’s disease
7.
Diabetes mellitus (diabetes)
8.
Influenza and pneumonia
9.
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (kidney disease)
10.
Intentional self-harm (suicide)
11.
Septicemia
12.
Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
13.
Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease (hypertension)
14.
Parkinson’s disease
15.
Assault (homicide)

Suicide was the only leading cause of death showing a significant increase.

------------------------------------------------

As gun ownership has increased dramatically, gun-related violent crimes have gradually decreased over the past six years in the state of Virginia, according to a new analysis.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/26/report-in-virginia-more-guns-less-crime/#ixzz2FA63BHje

From 2006 to 2011, the total number of guns purchased in Virginia increased 73 percent, while the total number of gun-related violent crimes decreased 24 percent over that period. And when adjusted for population growth, the number of crimes further decreases to more than 27 percent, with 79 gun-related offenses per 100,000 in 2006 dropping to 57 by 2011.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/26/report-in-virginia-more-guns-less-crime/#ixzz2FA6Dy8BU

------------------------------------------------
http://rkba.org/research/wright/armed-criminal.summary.html

The Nature of the Criminal Firearms Market
Three-quarters of the sample said they had owned one or more firearms at some time in their lives. Seventy-nine percent of these -- more than 1,000 -- said they owned at least one handgun. The handgun owners responded to a number of detailed questions about the methods and sources they used to acquire their most recent handguns. Their answers provide previously unavailable details describing the nature of the criminal gun market. The principal results:

(1) Legitimate firearms retailers play only a minor role as direct sources of handguns for adult felony offenders.

Only about one-sixth of the gun-owning felons obtained their most recent handguns through a customary retail transaction involving a licensed firearms dealer. The remainder -- five out of six -- obtained them via informal, off-the-record transactions involving friends and associates, family members, and various black market outlets. The means of acquisition from these informal sources included cash purchase, swaps and trades, borrowing and renting, and often theft. The criminal handgun market is overwhelmingly dominated by informal transactions and theft as mechanisms of supply.

The off-the-record nature of the market is further illustrated in the responses to a series of questions concerning the ease with which these men felt they could arm themselves upon release from prison. (As convicted felons, of course, all these men are legally prohibited from acquiring guns upon release, under provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968.) Most of the sample (gun owners and nonowners alike) thought it would be "no trouble at all" to acquire a gun upon release; about 80 percent felt they could obtain a suitable handgun in a few days or less. When asked where they would go for guns, their sources were friends, the street, and various black market sources.

These results suggest certain policy implications. Policies attempting to regulate handgun acquisition at the point of retail sale may be effective in preventing some types of criminals from acquiring firearms (e.g., juveniles or nonfelony offenders), but they are likely to have little effect on the most serious handgun-owning felons represented in this sample. Hardcore felons of the sort studied in this research rarely use customary retail channels to obtain handguns.

(2) Gun theft plays a critical role in connecting the adult felony offender to his firearms supply.

Half the men in the total sample had stolen at least one gun at some time in their lives (as shown in Figure 1). Many had stolen more than one. A few, particularly the more predatory felons, had stolen guns in extremely large numbers. At least 40 percent and perhaps has many as 70 percent of the most recent handguns owned by this sample were stolen weapons. These percentages include not only the guns that the felons stole themselves (32 percent), but also guns that the felons knew or believed to have been stolen prior to their acquisition of them.

Like other theft, gun theft appears to be an "opportunity" crime: most gun thieves (76 percent) stole guns when they came across them, not because they were looking specifically for a gun to steal. The purpose of most gun thefts (70 percent) was to sell or trade the gun to someone else, rather than to obtain one for personal use. Still most of those who had ever stolen guns kept at least one of them for personal use, usually because the stolen gun was a better quality weapon than the gun they were carrying at that time.

Most gun thefts (84 percent) occurred in private residences, but thefts from "high-volume" sources (retailers, wholesalers, shippers, and manufacturers) were also widely reported. These high-volume thefts may in fact account for a larger share of the total volume of stolen guns, due to the potentially greater number of guns stolen per theft.

The ideal gun control policy would be one that directly affects the illicit user but leaves the legitimate user pretty much alone. Formulating such a policy, however, presupposes a sharp distinction between the licit and the illicit markets, a distinction seriously eroded by the heavy volume of gun thefts from legitimate owners. The survey data suggests that a successful policy for controlling criminal access to firearms must necessarily address the problem of gun theft, perhaps including measures for informing legitimate owners about the extent and seriousness of gun theft and about procedures for adequately securing their firearms.

* Controls imposed at the point of retail sale would not be effective in preventing the acquisition of guns by serious adult felons because these felons rarely obtain their guns through customary retail outlets.

* Since theft of guns is a predominant means by which felons procure firearms, the 30 to 50 million handguns currently possessed by legitimate private owners represents a potentially rich source for criminal handgun acquisition. An effective criminal gun control policy must therefore, of necessity, confront the issue of firearms theft. At a minimum, there should be programs to educate the gun-owning public about the importance of adequately securing their guns.

* Among the most predatory felons, gun ownership and carrying is seen as essential because they fear what the prospects of an unarmed life on the streets would mean for their physical safety and security. For this group of most serious offenders, enhanced sanctioning policies would be unlikely to pose must threat; for them, the cost of being caught unarmed in a dangerous situation would be many times greater than the cost of a few years in prison.

* For less predatory felons, however, sentence enhancement policies do seem to have an important deterrent effect, since a sizable majority of the felons who do not use guns in crime cite "stiffer penalties" as a very important reason for their decision not to carry firearms.

* Finally, the survey findings suggest that, at least for the serious adult felons included in this sample, certain commonly proposed gun-banning measures could have strongly undesirable consequences, resulting in the substitution of more powerful and more lethal firearms. Gun-banning policies may be responded to differently by other types of offenders, however, and could represent a more effective deterrent to firearms use by juveniles, non-felony offenders, and other types of criminals.

------------------------------------------------
Mortality
All homicides
Number of deaths: 16,799
Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.5
Cause of death rank: 15

Firearm homicides
Number of deaths: 11,493
Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.7

Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2009, tables 9, 10, 11 Adobe PDF file [PDF - 2.1 MB] Adobe PDF file

------------------------------------------------
Mortality
All suicides
Number of deaths: 36,909
Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.0
Cause of death rank: 10

Firearm suicides
Number of deaths: 18,735
Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.1

Suffocation suicides
Number of deaths: 9,000
Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.9

Poisoning suicides
Number of deaths: 6,398
Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.1

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/welcome.htm

----------------------------------------

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/guns.cfm
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/violent_crime/murder_homicide.html
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/safety/
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/welcome.htm

Table 1
Total criminality of offenders by typology of weapons used in crime
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Criminal type Number of Percent of Avg total
offenders total sample criminality score
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total sample 1,874 100 139
------------
Unarmed-criminals 725 39 61

Armed-not-with-gun criminals
Improvisers 79 4 101
Knife-criminals 134 7 109

Gun criminals
One-time gun users 257 14 84
Sporadic gun users 257 14 151
Handgun predators 321 17 332

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
 

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