Truly disgusted, sad and furious | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Truly disgusted, sad and furious

"Please for the love of god, try not to sit home for several days like a sheep with a super sized bag of popcorn, gobbling up the artificial compassion spewed by the news media. They will fabricate a "blame game" and three ring circus of political debate... aka HUGE ratings frenzy during what should be a somber period of mourning. Taking your family out to dinner & a movie or simply changing the channel, we can all prohibit the media from allowing the memorial and mourning to become the sideshow.
If you choose to debate, it may be wise to wait until the emotions have run their course. If not for a more productive debate, then do it for the families of the innocent children who as yet... have not been laid to rest. "
Quote-SyracuesFan

I think you are underestimating the intelligence of the majority of the posters on this board. I for one am listening and reading with a great deal of thoughtfulness. The media, for the most part, have tried to do a complete and compassionate job. If you believe they have used artificial compassion, you haven't watched very closely. Seasoned reporters are having difficulty giving the news about this tragedy even to the point of being rendered speechless with tears running down their face.

We have been told to wait to debate for a period of time after each one of these senseless acts. Why, so the NRA can get their sideshow on the road? There is no more feared lobby in DC. It's time that there was a debate without them holding a gun to the head of congressmen (in the form of campaigning against them). Bob Schieffer(sp?) wanted a representative or senator to talk about gun control on his Sunday program. Suddenly, they all had previous engagements. I worry much more about a single entity (NRA) wielding that kind of power than I do about us going over any fiscal cliff.

A sensible debate is long overdue. I wager if you asked the parents of these murdered children, they would say, "Go for it"!

realorange... not sure why you feel the need to bring the parents of the victims into this... do you really think that they are thinking about gun control right now? Give me a break. They lived in the so-called "safest community in America". Gun control would have ZERO impact here.

This thread was not meant for gun control politics.
 
The most ardent gun rights nuts say nothing can prevent all tragedies, so nothing should be done. That's a rediculous argument.

There are many things that could reduce the number of incidents, or make these mass killings less severe. The very same measures could reduce murders altogether.

Making it more difficult to purchase semi automatic handguns and banning high capacity clips would be a start. I doubt you are saying that inconveniencing law abiding citizens would be too big a price to pay.

Guns for hunting and personal protection should be accessible to competent, law abiding citizens. Few people argue to the contrary.



realorange... not sure why you feel the need to bring the parents of the victims into this... do you really think that they are thinking about gun control right now? Give me a break. They lived in the so-called "safest community in America". Gun control would have ZERO impact here.

This thread was not meant for gun control politics.
 
Agree. As a lifelong hunter, I value guns for what they are meant. I'm not advocating banning guns, simply having stronger laws regarding them.

Well said. The only guns I have fired in my life were filled with either water or paint, but, if I was a hunter or otherwise wanted to own a gun, I would stand on the tallest mountain and welcome stronger laws, waiting periods, background checks, etc. Why should it be easier to buy a gun than it is to get a driver's license or a passport? Whether guns should be prohibited all together is a different discussion and I will leave that for others, but the notion that the second amendment prohibits strong gun control laws is ridiculous and offensive to common sense. It is shocking to me that there is any debate on this.
 
"realorange... not sure why you feel the need to bring the parents of the victims into this... do you really think that they are thinking about gun control right now? Give me a break. They lived in the so-called "safest community in America". Gun control would have ZERO impact here.
This thread was not meant for gun control politics."
Rocco -Quote

I only did that because the poster I answered wanted to let things slide until an acceptable time after the shootings. His point is simply to let things die down so that the subject of gun control won't get as much attention.

I won't argue these points anymore in this forum because you are correct, we need to be talking about basketball. This just happens to be a soapbox topic for me.
 
Also makes me sick that people want to bitch about gun control laws during times like this. Take your foot off the political gas pedal and show some compassion. I really begin to lose faith in human beings at times. These poor families are dealing with the worst thing that could have ever happened to them, but you want to bicker back and forth and sling your political strong arms into the mix. Give me a break.

it makes me sick that people defend their "rights" to have guns in times like these...and that we are told it's "too soon" to talk gun control. This has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with that fact that these guns are unnecessary and dangerous, in my humble opinion.
 
This article goes to the root of the problem.
Think Sandy Hook, Denver Theater and Gabby Gifford.
It is against the law to force a person to be treated for a mental issue, why is that?
In an effort to protect the rights of one, you put many in jeopardy.

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother
 
This article goes to the root of the problem.
Think Sandy Hook, Denver Theater and Gabby Gifford.
It is against the law to force a person to be treated for a mental issue, why is that?
In an effort to protect the rights of one, you put many in jeopardy.

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

I'm not arguing for or against gun laws but the two sides are so far apart. When that is the case there will be no serious compromise, it will be like a chisel against a mountain of granite. By the time they are strong enough to make a difference, our culture will have changed so much they will be outdated. Either we'll all own guns to survive or we'll finally start valuing the lives of everyone, seeking longevity.

Getting the government involved in regulating a man's gun cabinet is just like letting the government take money out of our paychecks before we see it. Everyone knows that the lock-box is never locked! They start with bullets, then models of pistols, then long range scopes then... We all know this is how the government works and the ardent gun guys are one group that pays attention.

We all know we have a problem and tighter control on pistols is always a good idea...

but again like everything else. People believe the government is going to take care of it and solve their problems. The problem is idiots leaving their guns unlocked. Start by charging people with unsecured firearms as an accessory to the crimes committed on their weapon.

The data I shared and other sources I've read seemed to point out, illegal guns are used 90% of the time. So controlling the legal sale of guns or tighter restrictions would have zero impact in these scenarios. The data is black and white, the biggest problem in the US is people don't lock their guns up in a safe. A very high number of crimes are committed with stolen guns. If you are committed to owning a pistol, you will not leave it in your car overnight or you should face serious penalties. Lets penalize the culprits not the responsible old codgers at the gun club.

Also the lack of a firearm has been shown to have almost zero effect on whether the felon goes forward and commits the crime. He'll grab a pipe, a blow gun etc...

The most disgusting and embarrassing stat to me is the USA has been home to over half the worlds last 30+mass killings. I'm guessing, but I think it was 18-20 out of 30. If everyone wants to start solving problems we will go a long ways a lot faster if we start parenting our kids, keeping a two parent household together, locking up our guns and start institutionalizing the violent people with broken brain pathways & evil genes. They have found evil genes, and several genetic aberrations involved in Schizophrenia and other mental diseases. Even uncovered gay genes recently. However it looks to be the same as everything else Nature/Nurture this psychotic behavior can be avoided in many cases with loving parents.

BUT We are so afraid to punish and institutionalize bad people... and in being afraid to infringe on the rights of sick people, they have put the rest of us in jeopardy. The government will not save us from ourselves, in fact as we become fat lazy and stupid they benefit by spending less resources controlling the flow of money and the populous in general.

During a time when the crooked politicians many of which have been elected under your watch; have stolen and bankrupted our once great nation... During this time, your gonna ask the few tax payers we have left to hand over their guns? I just don't see it happening. Typically...The people who have never had a job who are on welfare are the ones stealing guns and killing people, look at the gang related murder #'s it's appalling.

Back to Basketball... :)
 
One thing I thing we can all agree on is that the current approach to guns, violence, and mental health in this country is not working.
 
In a country where there is required standardized licensing for driving a vehicle, I find it ridiculous how easy it is to get a gun. We require at the very least a demonstration that a person be able to somewhat drive a motor vehicle, and yet realistically all you need to acquire a gun is some money and time. In this incident, the killer took 3 weapons from his elementary school teacher mom. Why does an elementary school teacher need 3 guns? I (begrudgingly) realize that people have a right to own a weapon, but if they weren't so easy to obtain, the teacher might only have had one weapon, or none. I think that there should be a longer waiting period, required training/classes, licensing, as well as required renewal checks. Will this eliminate violent crimes? Of course not, but it sure would make it a lot less easy to obtain weapons.

I don't buy the "Then Criminals will still find ways to get them illegally" argument either. If I were to give most average people 1000 bucks to go find a severely controlled substance, like pain meds or cocaine, most wouldn't know the first place to look. Sure, there is a "black market" and some few people could get a hookup, but the majority of law abiding citizens would have no clue where to go. The same cannot be said of Guns. Give most average citizens money and time, and they can get a firearm.

In the end, the issue isn't stopping crazy people from doing crazy things. If someone is truly dead set on committing an atrocity, all the safeguards in the world won't stop them. It is about stopping ease of access for other people, for those on the fringe. The reality is, I don't fear the gun nuts in the NRA. While I disagree with them on the core issues, those are the types of people generally who have their guns locked in safes, know how to properly use a gun, and have a proper respect for their power and abilities. What I do fear is Joe Smith, on a random whim, going to Walmart and picking up a weapon, leaving it in his dresser for a few years, and then having his weapon stolen/misused on a whim. We can't stop gun violence, but we can make it so that guns aren't so commonplace.

I personally would just as soon see them all banned. I have no use for a gun, but I realize this isn't a realistic goal. Guns don't kill people, but guns are tools that make it shockingly easy for people to kill other people.
 
Guns and violence are weaved into America's conscience, (games): Call of Duty-Black Ops, Half-Life, Doom, Duke Nukem, Quake, Tom Clancey's Rainbow Six, Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike, etc
(movies): Rambo, Robo Cop, Natural Born Killers, Total Recall, Saw, Jason, Braindead, Saving Private Ryan, The Matrix, Shooter, Platoon, Sniper, Full Metal Jacket, the list is endless...

We need to make some fundamental changes in society...
 
Hard to understand how this maniac's mother obtained firearms in the first place. She obviously has some serious issues, not the least of which was preparing for armageddon and pulling the kid out of school so he could be "home-schooled" ... no doubt because he was getting in trouble at school and probably had a severe mental health/emotional disturbance diagnosis.

So the mother yanks him from school ... he becomes more isolated, more depressed, more depraved and angry ...

And then ... she decides to leave an arsenal of guns for him to seek revenge.

It all makes sense to me ... except for the fact that none of this string of tragedies should be legal.
 
I wish, just once, that one of these guys would get caught by ordinary citizens right before they succeeded in killing anyone. It would be great to see them gang tackled, disarmed, and then pummeled into oblivion before the police arrived. Make them have to eat from a straw for the rest of their lives.
It happens often, but the liberal media doesn't report it. It doesn't fit the liberal media template of central government control of everything.
 
I wish, just once, that one of these guys would get caught by ordinary citizens right before they succeeded in killing anyone. It would be great to see them gang tackled, disarmed, and then pummeled into oblivion before the police arrived. Make them have to eat from a straw for the rest of their lives.
This happened just a few months ago down in Maryland. A buddy of mine's brother was shot and the gunman was immediately swarmed and tackled right before he started shooting again. Fortunately nobody was killed, it would have been nice to hear more about the heroic acts of the guidance counselor who rushed the shooter and saved many lives, but the media sees one shot, no deaths = no story.
 
These ridiculous acts of violence need to end. I am not trying to take anything away from the people who have been killed in the recent shootings elsewhere, but this one really hits home. These kids were in kindergarden. Are you kidding me? Makes me sick to my stomach. If your life is so bad, why the hell do you need to take out other peoples' lives, especially truly innocent children? Piece of ****.

Also makes me sick that people want to bitch about gun control laws during times like this. Take your foot off the political gas pedal and show some compassion. I really begin to lose faith in human beings at times. These poor families are dealing with the worst thing that could have ever happened to them, but you want to bicker back and forth and sling your political strong arms into the mix. Give me a break.

God Bless the victims and their grieving families.
The USA needs much more fire power to defeat the crazies . Anybody who thinks they can defend there selfs with stones = stock up
 
it makes me sick that people defend their "rights" to have guns in times like these...and that we are told it's "too soon" to talk gun control. This has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with that fact that these guns are unnecessary and dangerous, in my humble opinion.
You must work for the goverment
 
I don't buy the "Then Criminals will still find ways to get them illegally" argument either. If I were to give most average people 1000 bucks to go find a severely controlled substance, like pain meds or cocaine, most wouldn't know the first place to look. Sure, there is a "black market" and some few people could get a hookup, but the majority of law abiding citizens would have no clue where to go.
I disagree. Drugs are so much easier to attain than your parents would like to believe. Walk around any college campus on a weekend night and you won't have to ask more than 4 people where to find blow. Hell, the school I went to has a top 5 nationally ranked D1 team and I'd estimate half of the team regularly used cocaine. You don't have to look very hard to find almost any drug.
 
I disagree. Drugs are so much easier to attain than your parents would like to believe. Walk around any college campus on a weekend night and you won't have to ask more than 4 people where to find blow. Hell, the school I went to has a top 5 nationally ranked D1 team and I'd estimate half of the team regularly used cocaine. You don't have to look very hard to find almost any drug.
I live in az and over 600,000 tons of meth are brought in are country every day . FACT !!!! Tha USA loves mexico = job security
 
I disagree. Drugs are so much easier to attain than your parents would like to believe. Walk around any college campus on a weekend night and you won't have to ask more than 4 people where to find blow. Hell, the school I went to has a top 5 nationally ranked D1 team and I'd estimate half of the team regularly used cocaine. You don't have to look very hard to find almost any drug.

So did I, I graduated from Syracuse last year ;). While I wasn't into drugs myself, I had plenty of friends who were, and could have had easy access. I think the point stands though, although maybe not on a college campus.
 
I disagree. Drugs are so much easier to attain than your parents would like to believe. Walk around any college campus on a weekend night and you won't have to ask more than 4 people where to find blow. Hell, the school I went to has a top 5 nationally ranked D1 team and I'd estimate half of the team regularly used cocaine. You don't have to look very hard to find almost any drug.

I can't believe I read this... I just don't believe we live in the same world. If you pay attention you will see drug deals happening on your way to work. Every single person knows someone who uses or has used drugs, outside of hunting, how many people do you know who use guns regularly. The concept just doesn't comprehend to me, you probably have 5 pain med addicts where you work. More people abuse drugs than abuse guns, drug users hurt themselves irresponsible or crazy gun users hurt others.

There are 300 million legal guns in the US, and anyone who wants to protect their families are stockpiling them currently. They aren't going anywhere so let's lock up the idiots who have them stolen from their car. The people who lay them under the bed. Advances in smart gun technology and magnetic rings and etc... will solve the problem or assist in curtailing rage based murders... Mental health reform ought to be priority #1

I just found these... pretty cool
http://www.smartlock.com/smartgun_detail.htm
http://www.iguntech.com/Low_Intro.html
 
Firearms account for 68% of all murders committed in the US and of those, 70% of these homicides are gang related. Eliminate gang related homicides from the US murder rate, and the US averages around 1.0 murders per 100k people which is similar to countries in Europe. Domestic violence accounts for the vast majority of the remaining non-gang related homicides. Norway has very restrictive gun laws, and one of the worst massacre's took place there, taking the lives of 77 teens and adults, Anders Behring Breivik. Guns are benign until used for malevolent purposes and increasingly restrictive gun laws as evidenced by the last ten years does not prevent such tragedies. The mother had the guns legally, he killed her the massacred children and adults. What law would have prevented this? I have three elementary age children and feel intense grief, however it angers me when people oversimplify the issue of gun control and try to find easy blame.
 
People who think taking guns away from people that won't do these things will stop them from happening are as short sighted as they get.

We just need to take them away from the people that will do these things.
 
We just need to take them away from the people that will do these things.

That is the problem I brought up earlier. How do we do this?
 
simple ban any gun that is not for hunting. Ban all hand guns, Ban all assault guns Make anyone who wants to purchase a gun from any source including private owners and guns shows go through an extensive background search. Make all gun owners go through and pass a safety certification exam. Eliminate the manufacturing of all non hunting amunition. Make it a felony to not report a stolen gun. Require all gun owners with children living at home under the age of 21 to certify that they have a gun locker. Change all laws that permit citizens to carry weapons for non hunting purposes. If we do these things we will eliminate much of the violence in our country. Last point provide for a mandatory sentance of 2 years for anyone who breaks anyone of these laws. Anyone who advocates the sale or possesion of guns for anything other than hunting needs to take a hard long look at why.
 

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