Typical after lost board.

[armory]

This team just isn't that good. I think the failed expectations largely stem from a DC2 who was woefully shellshocked by the transition to college. The only way we become a final4-level team based on talent is if DC2 somehow has an epiphany during his recovery and comes back playing like a senior Onuaku. Otherwise, will have to make up for it by ratcheting up the defensive effort if we want to have a prayer in March or a chance at April.

 

[baggerbob]

By no means is this a sky is falling or over reaction to a loss post. I have watched every game!

We have tremendous athletes (truly great), as gifted athletically as any group we have had maybe ever. BUT, they are only good basketball players (as a group). AND, they play just ok together as a team.

2012-13: I thought it was looking like one of those special teams early in the season when we were beating less skilled teams by 20, MCW was averaging 11 assists per game, we were out-rebounding teams by a minimum of 10 a game and we were top 5 in the country in blocks/steals, etc. Then the Big East started.

We are just not an elite team yet. Grant, Fair, Southerland, Xmas and Keita are not enough to make a deep run. Guards dictate success in the NCAA Tournament and apparently Triche missed the memo and the inconsistent (but great) MCW is not the answer yet. Absolutely can play with anyone and beat anyone, but the inconsistency of our play will bite us.

We are blessed to have a HOF coach who aside from X’s/O’s proficiency, he is a master psychologist. I am not sure if that is enough this year to get the results we all want.

Wake up TRICHE!

If you're expecting anything different from Triche, then what we get don't. He has been a complementary player since he has been here, and that just happens to be what his game is. What we really need from him at this point in his career is better consistency, rather then highs and lows.

 

[PhatOrange]

JB was outcoached. It's a fact. Not sure why so many people here have trouble admitting it. If you know an ounce about basketball, you too would know this. Saying your HOF coach was outcoached in a game, does not mean you want him gone, he's a bad coach, he sucks. They can be mutually exclusive, believe it or not.

Draw it up and enlighten us then. How was he out coached ?

Syracuse
23-65 = 35.4 % (2 pt field goals)
04-23 = 17.4 % (3 pt field goals)


21-45 = 46.7 % (2 pt field goals) (20 fewer shots)
08-14 = 57.1 % (3 pt field goals)

 

[TBCuse11]

Please explain exactly how he was outcoached? Proclaiming it doesn't make it true.
If you have big men that do very little productive work, can't put back shots, leave men open several times back door, etc., how is that being outcoached?
If one of your starting guards has a bad game, how is that being outcoached?
If your wings don't get back on the 3pt shooters, how is that being outcoached?
We were outplayed last night, we weren't outcoached.

We were severely outcoached. Our lineups were not working. Grant was our most productive player per minute. Jimmy B is a great, great coach, no doubt about it... but last night he was outcoached. They shredded the zone for wide open threes and alley-oops all night long. Our two bigs contributed nothing, zero. They could make layups, couldnt rebound, couldnt defend. The play was to go small (UConn is a very small team) and put Grant in the middle and out-talent them.

 

[Gabjon]

This team just isn't that good. I think the failed expectations largely stem from a DC2 who was woefully shellshocked by the transition to college. The only way we become a final4-level team based on talent is if DC2 somehow has an epiphany during his recovery and comes back playing like a senior Onuaku. Otherwise, will have to make up for it by ratcheting up the defensive effort if we want to have a prayer in March or a chance at April.

Not to throw darts but the biggest issue on this team is the lack of a reliable third guard.

 

[Knicks411]

It's probably difficult to say one guy got outcoached in any individual game, but if we play Michigan or Michigan in the tournament and beat them I'm sure we'll hear that JB outcoached Beilen or Izzo and owns them, even if it was just that Michigan couldn't buy a shot.

 

[NineOneSeven]

It's probably difficult to say one guy got outcoached in any individual game, but if we play Michigan or Michigan in the tournament and beat them I'm sure we'll hear that JB outcoached Beilen or Izzo and owns them, even if it was just that Michigan couldn't buy a shot.

Ding ding ding.

 

[BlueCurtain]

it's all on the players. Just my 2 cents.

Why even have a coach on the bench then? According to your view, player execution is not impacted by offensive and defensive schemes, in-game adjustments, and scouting reports.

 

[Gabjon]

It's probably difficult to say one guy got outcoached in any individual game, but if we play Michigan or Michigan in the tournament and beat them I'm sure we'll hear that JB outcoached Beilen or Izzo and owns them, even if it was just that Michigan couldn't buy a shot.

That's fair but for me out coached means your team was not prepared to attack a teams defense or defend a team offense. We have all seen teams that seemed shocked that SU plays 2-3 zone, I think we were prepared well to play Uconn last night X's and O's wise but we played poorly.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Why even have a coach on the bench then? According to your view, player execution is not impacted by offensive and defensive schemes, in-game adjustments, and scouting reports.

Go back and fully read my post. Talk about selective reading. That is exactly the point I was making. I was using an example.

 

[NineOneSeven]

That's fair but for me out coached means your team was not prepared to attack a teams defense or defend a team offense. We have all seen teams that seemed shocked that SU plays 2-3 zone, I think we were prepared well to play Uconn last night X's and O's wise but we played poorly.

Really? I'm not trying to flame here but...Gold.

 

[OttoMets]

Draw it up and enlighten us then. How was he out coached ?

Syracuse
23-65 = 35.4 % (2 pt field goals)
04-23 = 17.4 % (3 pt field goals)


21-45 = 46.7 % (2 pt field goals) (20 fewer shots)
08-14 = 57.1 % (3 pt field goals)

Because encouraging/allowing the team that can't shoot to attempt 23 threes is not a recipe for victory.

Because posting up Mssrs. Giffey and Olander is a recipe for victory.

Going into this game, Kevin Ollie's best-case scenario went something like "Hopefully we can mask the deficiencies on our front line, and maybe - just maybe - we can sucker Syracuse into taking 20 or so deep shots, since they only hit 32% of them." And Syracuse obliged.

 

[Gabjon]

Really? I'm not trying to flame here but...Gold.

Brandon going 2-15 is not a coaching issue and most of them weren't bad shots...

 

[NineOneSeven]

Brandon going 2-15 is not a coaching issue and most of them weren't bad shots...

I'll repeat: you thought we had a good X's and O'x strategy last night?

 

[OttoMets]

That's fair but for me out coached means your team was not prepared to attack a teams defense or defend a team offense. We have all seen teams that seemed shocked that SU plays 2-3 zone, I think we were prepared well to play Uconn last night X's and O's wise but we played poorly.

I just don't think we were (I'm only engaging you because we know you understand the game). Well prepared would have gone something like: "Their bigs are dreadful. Back-screens all day with Southerland, Grant,and Fair cutting to the hoop for layups. Run the high pick and roll with Mike and Christmas until they show they can stop it. Triche and Mike: since no one other than South can shoot worth a lick, do not - do not - take a three unless it is unguarded and within the flow of the offense. Instead, back down their tiny guards. Tire them out, foul them out, shoot over them. If help comes, kick out to Fair or South for uncontested jumpers."

Instead, the preparation seemed to involve the idea that shooting threes is somehow a strength (despite having demonstrated for the first 23 games that we're pretty bad at that), so let's attempt 23 of them. And let's not, by any means, run any designed plays for the best big man on the floor, who happens to play for our team.

(Sorry for the lousy paragraphing - it wasn't a short hypothetical gameplan.)

To be more succinct, it seems that Syracuse's gameplan did not take advantage of our strengths; instead, we did exactly what would benefit UConn the most.

 

[Gabjon]

I'll repeat: you thought we had a good X's and O'x strategy last night?

I think we ran the same offensive plays we have run all season. There are things I don't like about the plays we are running or more accurately there are plays that we are not running that I would like to see ran, but I think that is largely do to the limitations of the players not the coaching. For example you need post players to run post plays...

 

[PhatOrange]

Because encouraging/allowing the team that can't shoot to attempt 23 threes is not a recipe for victory.

Because posting up Mssrs. Giffey and Olander is a recipe for victory.

Going into this game, Kevin Ollie's best-case scenario went something like "Hopefully we can mask the deficiencies on our front line, and maybe - just maybe - we can sucker Syracuse into taking 20 or so deep shots, since they only hit 32% of them." And Syracuse obliged.

Maybe maybe not. The stats might be a little deceiving as at least 4 or 5 of those threes came in scramble time. So without the desperation threes we were right on our average of 18 three's per game. And that's gotten us to 20-4.

Fact is our guards couldn't handle F UConns pressure defense so we got lazy and did a lot of chucking.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think we ran the same offensive plays we have run all season. There are things I don't like about the plays we are running or more accurately there are plays that we are not running that I would like to see ran, but I think that is largely do to the limitations of the players not the coaching. For example you need post players to run post plays...

CJ Fair, Jerami Grant, James Southerland, Rakeem Christmas are more than serviceable enough to throw them the ball in the paint against a team without their "best" big.

 

[OttoMets]

I think we ran the same offensive plays we have run all season. There are things I don't like about the plays we are running or more accurately there are plays that we are not running that I would like to see ran, but I think that is largely do to the limitations of the players not the coaching. For example you need post players to run post plays...

This is where some of use have a disconnect. I'm more bullish on Christmas than most, but I'm not sure how anyone could argue he's not at worst a capable post threat. With limited touches, he's demonstrated that he can produce.

There have been two games this year where he's taken more than seven shots: he went 6-8 for 15 against Providence and 6-9 for 12 against Notre Dame. Each of those teams has better bigs than UConn. Rakeem's got good footwork, good hands, range to ~15, is a good finisher with either hand. But we don't want to use him.

 

[jncuse]

Did somebody get lost?

 

[OttoMets]

Maybe maybe not. The stats might be a little deceiving as at least 4 or 5 of those threes came in scramble time. So without the desperation threes we were right on our average of 18 three's per game. And that's gotten us to 20-4.

Fact is our guards couldn't handle F UConns pressure defense so we got lazy and did a lot of chucking.

You're right, I counted 19 attempts before chuck time.

But the goal isn't to meet averages. It's to win, which is usually done by imposing your strength and exploiting the other team's weakness.

Shooting threes - 18, 19, 23 - is surely not our strength. We've been poor at it from the get-go. Further, UConn is unique among our Big East opponents in that their front line is very weak. So if there was ever a game to focus more on operating inside, this was it. But we didn't; we ceded them a huge advantage by not exploiting their disadvantage.

 

[Gabjon]

I just don't think we were (I'm only engaging you because we know you understand the game). Well prepared would have gone something like: "Their bigs are dreadful. Back-screens all day with Southerland, Grant,and Fair cutting to the hoop for layups. Run the high pick and roll with Mike and Christmas until they show they can stop it. Triche and Mike: since no one other than South can shoot worth a lick, do not - do not - take a three unless it is unguarded and within the flow of the offense. Instead, back down their tiny guards. Tire them out, foul them out, shoot over them. If help comes, kick out to Fair or South for uncontested jumpers."

Instead, the preparation seemed to involve the idea that shooting threes is somehow a strength (despite having demonstrated for the first 23 games that we're pretty bad at that), so let's attempt 23 of them. And let's not, by any means, run any designed plays for the best big man on the floor, who happens to play for our team.

(Sorry for the lousy paragraphing - it wasn't a short hypothetical gameplan.)

To be more succinct, it seems that Syracuse's gameplan did not take advantage of our strengths; instead, we did exactly what would benefit UConn the most.

There is a reason why we had 20 offensive rebounds. Our bigs are not good enough to run offense through they are good enough to dominate the glass and put the ball back in, but they didn't do that! Baye had two what I can only describe as backwards layout attempts! So we are taller yes but the skill level is questionable. What I would like to have seen is James and/or CJ getting more post touches with the 5 man on the weak side for rebounding position. But I have that complaint win or lose. Are we out coached when we win?

The strength of this team is the wing James CJ and Grant in any order you want. They need to touch the ball as much as possible, but in college basketball it is hard to win when your guards get dominated like ours did last night.

 

[OttoMets]

There is a reason why we had 20 offensive rebounds. Our bigs are not good enough to run offense through they are good enough to dominate the glass and put the ball back in, but they didn't do that! Baye had two what I can only describe as backwards layout attempts! So we are taller yes but the skill level is questionable. What I would like to have seen is James and/or CJ getting more post touches with the 5 man on the weak side for rebounding position. But I have that complaint win or lose. Are we out coached when we win?

The strength of this team is the wing James CJ and Grant in any order you want. They need to touch the ball as much as possible, but in college basketball it is hard to win when your guards get dominated like ours did last night.

I think so - I've made this point a little too often about our win over Stanford last year - but you raise an interesting question.

What if UConn only makes 5 threes? We win. Would some of us still say Boeheim got outcoached?

 

[OttoMets]

There is a reason why we had 20 offensive rebounds. Our bigs are not good enough to run offense through they are good enough to dominate the glass and put the ball back in, but they didn't do that! Baye had two what I can only describe as backwards layout attempts! So we are taller yes but the skill level is questionable. What I would like to have seen is James and/or CJ getting more post touches with the 5 man on the weak side for rebounding position. But I have that complaint win or lose. Are we out coached when we win?

The strength of this team is the wing James CJ and Grant in any order you want. They need to touch the ball as much as possible, but in college basketball it is hard to win when your guards get dominated like ours did last night.

Anyway, I agree that our strength is on the wing. And execution was a huge problem. Our guards simply got outplayed by two other talented guards.

But Christmas is so clearly an untapped strength. I've watched enough Syracuse basketball to understand that wings come first, second, and third in our offense - if LeRon Ellis and Arinze aren't unleashed and force-fed 20 times a game, Christmas certainly won't be.

However, Christmas has demonstrated that he can do a number of things on the offensive end; he's anything but a liability and I see no reason why we can't incorporate him into the offense. It's true that he's going to suffer when the guards get dominated. He's been ignored for most of the year, though, regardless of how freely our guards are operating.

 

[Gabjon]

CJ Fair, Jerami Grant, James Southerland, Rakeem Christmas are more than serviceable enough to throw them the ball in the paint against a team without their "best" big.

define post game?