UConn recruits better backcourts than we do

[Millhouse]

richard hamilton/khalid el amin
ben gordon/rashad anderson
kemba walker/jeremy lamb
shabazz napier/ryan boatright

We've been close but we haven't really put it together in the backcourt since 03. often have one but not the other

McCroskey, Wright, Harris off and on at guard

I make excuses for Devendorf, I think he was hurt by the front court more. Flynn/Devendorf should've been better.

We either have not enough guards or too many out of position

We've had great teams but we haven't had pairs of guards as good as uconn. Waiters and MCW were great but the 2nd fiddles weren't quite as good (Triche, Scoop, Cooney)

 

[anglerman]

No way that's accurate or the reason that UCON has won more championships. SU has had excellent players in the backcourt it's been affected by players leaving early for the NBA especially recently. You can't fault the staff for recruiting good players. Believe me im no JB supporter but he has recruited outstanding guards.

 

[Millhouse]

No way that's accurate or the reason that UCON has won more championships. SU has had excellent players in the backcourt it's been affected by players leaving early for the NBA especially recently. You can't fault the staff for recruiting good players. Believe me im no JB supporter but he has recruited outstanding guards.

yes, he's recruited lots of good guards. but we don't seem to put together great backcourts in a season. uconn puts it together for special seasons. uconn has had some clunkers sandwiched in between those 4 national championships (and another final 4)

uconn seems more volatile to me but i'd rather have had their run than our's

3 out of the last 5 years, they stunk. the other 2, they won it all!

 

[RF2044]

Our guards play small--figuratively and literally. Uconn's don't.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Shabazz Napier was not a great player two years ago. Uconn fans hammerred him as bad as we hammered Cooney two years ago. Our backcourt was pretty good last year, mcw just picked the wrong time to have a bad game. That is why we didn't play Louisville. We need to let guys develop. Who's to say Trevor Cooney doesn't lead us to the final four as a senior. That's why i think it's stupid people are burying our players before they have fully developed. And by the way go watch the michigan game. Triche was one of the reasons we had a chance at the end of that game. Lesson to learn here. Don't give up on players when they are underclassmen.

 

[orange_cream]

If Dion and MCW had stayed around Cuse would be competing for a championship. Syracuse recruits players that aren't as good enough as freshman to win a title, but are too good to stick around to be seniors.

 

[Millhouse]

Shabazz Napier was not a great player two years ago. Uconn fans hammerred him as bad as we hammered Cooney two years ago. Our backcourt was pretty good last year, mcw just picked the wrong time to have a bad game. That is why we didn't play Louisville. We need to let guys develop. Who's to say Trevor Cooney doesn't lead us to the final four as a senior. That's why i think it's stupid people are burying our players before they have full developed. And by the way go watch the michigan game. Triche was one of the reasons we had a chance at the end of that game. Lesson to learn here. Don't give up on players when they are underclassmen.

2 years ago napier averaged 13 pts, 6 assists, and shot 35% from three

This year Ennis averaged 13 pts, 6 assist and shot 35% from three

I don't care what Uconn fans think of their players. Uconn fans are idiots.

Boatright is the difference between UConn and Syracuse.

 

[Cusefan0307]

2 years ago napier averaged 13 pts, 6 assists, and shot 35% from three

This year Ennis averaged 13 pts, 6 assist and shot 35% from three

I don't care what Uconn fans think of their players. Uconn fans are idiots.

Boatright is the difference between UConn and Syracuse.

I'm not comparing Napier to Ennis two years ago. I'm comparing Napier to Ennis now. If Ennis stayed as long as Napier he'd be better. Boat right and Napier are upperclassman. Our guards were not experienced. Last year our backcourt was better and that's why we went to the final four. That's why everyone is aggravated. Supposedly Ennis is leaving and we need to start a freshman again, and basically start over. I don't care how talented he is, last night showed that in most nights men will beat kids.

 

[dollarbill44]

Our backcourt last year was very good. JFlynn and Devo was a very good backcourt. Ennis/Jospeh would be a very good tandem. The problem is getting the best guys to stick around for 4 years. Those UConn tandems you cite had guys that stuck around.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not comparing Napier to Ennis two years ago. I'm comparing Napier to Ennis now. If Ennis stayed as long as Napier he'd be better. Boat right and Napier are upperclassman. Our guards were not experienced. Last year our backcourt was better and that's why we went to the final four. That's why everyone is aggravated. Supposedly Ennis is leaving and we need to start a freshman again, and basically start over. I don't care how talented he is, last night showed that in most nights men will beat kids.

my point was that Napier was good two years ago. You said he wasn't. I think Ennis was good this year. I think Napier was good 2 years ago.

 

[Alsacs]

You need more 1 than guard who can penetrate. Syracuse had in 2013 with MCW and Triche, 2012 with Scoop, Waiters, Triche, 2011-Scoop, Triche, 2010- Scoop, Triche, 2009- Devendorf, Flynn, 2008-Flynn, Devendorf before he got hurt.

This season we had only 1 ball handler who create his own shot off the dribble Tyler Ennis.
Basically we need 2 Brandon Triche type players.

Last 5 NCs
2014-UConn had Napier and Boatwright
2013- Louisville had Siva and Smith
2012- Kentucky had Teague and Lamb
2011- UConn had Walker and Napier
2010- Duke had Scheyer and Smith

 

[Millhouse]

You need more 1 than guard who can penetrate. Syracuse had in 2013 with MCW and Triche, 2012 with Scoop, Waiters, Triche, 2011-Scoop, Triche, 2010- Scoop, Triche, 2009- Devendorf, Flynn, 2008-Flynn, Devendorf before he got hurt.

This season we had only 1 ball handler who create his own shot off the dribble Tyler Ennis.
Basically we need 2 Brandon Triche type players.

Last 5 NCs
2014-UConn had Napier and Boatwright
2013- Louisville had Siva and Smith
2012- Kentucky had Teague and Lamb
2011- UConn had Walker and Napier
2010- Duke had Scheyer and Smith

i just don't think triche and scoop are in that class. devendorf had his flaws too

 

[Cusefan0307]

my point was that Napier was good two years ago. You said he wasn't. I think Ennis was good this year. I think Napier was good 2 years ago.

Check out his game log from two years ago. His stats were volatile, meaning he was inconsistent. 20 point games mixed in with zero and one point games. His big east season was not good.

 

[Alsacs]

i just don't think triche and scoop are in that class. devendorf had his flaws too

If this team had one of Scoop, Triche, Devendorf this season my god we would have had 4 guards that could play and have more options when 1 guy struggled.
If I were JB I would be recruiting more Scoop/Triche type players because they stay in school 4 years. We need 2 ball handlers. Triche could play PG if needed him to I have no confidence we have 2 PGs on our roster right now. Next season is a rebuilding year. Even if Joseph is as good as Ennis it will just push him to leave early. Joseph is going to play 35 mpg during conference play.

 

[Millhouse]

You need more 1 than guard who can penetrate. Syracuse had in 2013 with MCW and Triche, 2012 with Scoop, Waiters, Triche, 2011-Scoop, Triche, 2010- Scoop, Triche, 2009- Devendorf, Flynn, 2008-Flynn, Devendorf before he got hurt.

This season we had only 1 ball handler who create his own shot off the dribble Tyler Ennis.
Basically we need 2 Brandon Triche type players.

Last 5 NCs
2014-UConn had Napier and Boatwright
2013- Louisville had Siva and Smith
2012- Kentucky had Teague and Lamb
2011- UConn had Walker and Napier
2010- Duke had Scheyer and Smith

walker, boatright, siva, smith are all short guys

when we won it all, we had a short guard who could do it all on offense. (helped to have Carmelo but work with me here)

it's too much about the zone here. the zone works fine, i don't think man to man creates offense on it's own, i think recruiting short guards that are good create offense and the zone precludes that.

i still think josh wright screwed everything up. JB knows he can win with tall guards taking up space in a zone

 

[jncuse]

my point was that Napier was good two years ago. You said he wasn't. I think Ennis was good this year. I think Napier was good 2 years ago.

No he really wasn't. You need to look at more than the stat line. He was the reason the team was was so underwhelming.

Great now on both ends if the floor. His on ball defence was spectacular.

 

[Alsacs]

walker, boatright, siva, smith are all short guys

when we won it all, we had a short guard who could do it all on offense. (helped to have Carmelo but work with me here)

it's too much about the zone here. the zone works fine, i don't think man to man creates offense on it's own, i think recruiting short guards that are good create offense and the zone precludes that.

Yeah I love the zone, but I think what I learned it hurts us sometimes as much as it helps us. Playing zone 100% isn't a good thing IMO because eventually the coaches will figure it out over the course of a season unless we have 6'6" and 6'4" on the top of the zone like last year and it is ridiculously long. I wish we would keep the zone, but also flip the switch occasionally play man to man. What is wrong about playing zone 75% of the time and man to man 25%. Just to switch moment from time to time or whenever it becomes obvious teams are stall balling against the zone.

 

[phil77]

Can't the opposite be argued? We seem to be recruiting the more talented players as our guards are being drafted in the lottery every year? Uconn seems to be recruiting the 3-4 year type player at guard. Our guards don't stay around that long. We seem to be recruiting more NBA talent as they seem to be recruiting more college talent (that stays for 3-4 years). At least that is the recent trend.

 

[Alsacs]

Can't the opposite be argued? We seem to be recruiting the more talented players as our guards are being drafted in the lottery every year? Uconn seems to be recruiting the 3-4 year type player at guard. Our guards don't stay around that long. We seem to be recruiting more NBA talent as they seem to be recruiting more college talent (that stays for 3-4 years). At least that is the recent trend.

UConn had Kemba Walker and Jeremy Lamb leave early after their 2011. Kemba was a lottery pick, and Lamb was a late lottery/mid teens first round pick.
2012 Andre Drummond left UConn after 1 year. They get talent that leaves.

The get the max out of their talent for the most part. SU underachieves in getting the most out of its talent. MCW got us to a Final Four which was great, but not all the way.

We waste our bench scholarships for the future instead of developing them to help during the season. 2012 is honestly the only season I remember the rotation going down a legit 10 deep and MCW was the 10th guy.

 

[dasher]

richard hamilton/khalid el amin
ben gordon/rashad anderson
kemba walker/jeremy lamb
shabazz napier/ryan boatright

We've been close but we haven't really put it together in the backcourt since 03. often have one but not the other

McCroskey, Wright, Harris off and on at guard

I make excuses for Devendorf, I think he was hurt by the front court more. Flynn/Devendorf should've been better.

We either have not enough guards or too many out of position

We've had great teams but we haven't had pairs of guards as good as uconn. Waiters and MCW were great but the 2nd fiddles weren't quite as good (Triche, Scoop, Cooney)

They don't. The problem for us is that our guys have been too good and left us early. Flynn, MCW, Waiters all left after their soph years. Waiters would be a sr on this team. Now, ennis leaves after his frosh year.

 

[dasher]

UConn had Kemba Walker and Jeremy Lamb leave early after their 2011.

The get the max out of their talent for the most part. SU underachieves.

We waste our bench scholarships for the future instead of developing them to help during the season. 2012 is honestly the only season I remember the rotation going down a legit 10 deep and MCW was the 10th guy.

what year was Kemba? He was a soph. Our great guys don't get that far.

 

[Millhouse]

They don't. The problem for us is that our guys have been too good and left us early. Flynn, MCW, Waiters all left after their soph years. Waiters would be a sr on this team. Now, ennis leaves after his frosh year.

i tried to make this thread about backcourts and not just one guard. flynn and devendorf were good. sometimes you get slaughtered by blake griffin. i don't think this is the only explanation for everything.

waiters and MCW are 6'4 and 6'6. you can't expect good guards to stick around when they're that big

so if we want good guards that stick around, we should go after shorter guards. which hurts the zone which WAIT WHAT WE CAN'T HAVE THAT

 

[phil77]

UConn had Kemba Walker and Jeremy Lamb leave early after their 2011.

The get the max out of their talent for the most part. SU underachieves.

We waste our bench scholarships for the future instead of developing them to help during the season. 2012 is honestly the only season I remember the rotation going down a legit 10 deep and MCW was the 10th guy.

Our guard rotation this year could have been MCW, Waiters and Ennis. A lot different than Ennis, Cooney and G.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If this team had one of Scoop, Triche, Devendorf this season my god we would have had 4 guards that could play and have more options when 1 guy struggled.
If I were JB I would be recruiting more Scoop/Triche type players because they stay in school 4 years. We need 2 ball handlers. Triche could play PG if needed him to I have no confidence we have 2 PGs on our roster right now. Next season is a rebuilding year. Even if Joseph is as good as Ennis it will just push him to leave early. Joseph is going to play 35 mpg during conference play.

Couldn't agree more with you. Its awesome to get the uber talented guys, but at the same point we just need solid guys as well. Maybe Gbinije can work into someone like Triche. He seems to be the guy that most fits that profile on the current roster.

As for next year, well nobody picked Uconn at the beginning of this year. Rebuilding year or not all we need to do is make the tourney. If anything this year showed, the talk about seeding is a waste of time. I'm fine with a 22-9 regular season if we can get hot late.

 

[Alsacs]

Kemba was a Junior. He played in 2009 6 OT game. Lamb was a Sophomore.

Dion Waiters was a Sophomore and MCW was a Sophomore. If MCW didn't go to prep school he might have stayed an extra year, but because he was 21 years old he had to leave to get his NBA clock started to get a 2nd contract in his mid-20s. Wes Johnson had to leave because of his age as well. Flynn left because his NBA stock would never be higher.

Melo and MCW were the only early entries that got Syracuse to the promised land and last year if we had another guard we might have been able to win a NC. This year and last year we only played 3 guards and small margins for error if one our guys had an off day.