UConn recruits better backcourts than we do

[anomander]

Our best seasons we have typically have had 2 guards who can penetrate and be ball handlers.

2013-MCW and Triche
2012-Scoop, Triche, and Waiters
2010- Scoop and Triche
2003- GMac and Edelin
1996- we rode Wallace this is outlier but Sims was solid
1987- Douglas, Monroe, and Triche

This year we had 1 ball handler and guy who could penetrate. Tyler Ennis.

Michael Gbinije is NOT A PG we only have 1 PG on the roster next year. G will be the backup by necessity.

This is exactly why Cooney can't play 38 minutes a game. He is too 1 dimensional (occasionally). We need guards who can create their own shots, or create for others. He would be a perfect 6 man, but is a huge liability if he is having one of his off games.

 

[Millhouse]

That wasn't my point. JB will take smaller guards.

If you're smaller but fast, size is less important.

jb might be reacting in the way I hope. the offense must be driving him crazy too

 

[Alsacs]

This is exactly why Cooney can't play 38 minutes a game. He is too 1 dimensional (occasionally). We need guards who can create their own shots, or create for others. He would be a perfect 6 man, but is a huge liability if he is having one of his off games.

I honestly want nobody playing 38 mpg unless they are Carmelo Anthony or NBA allstar type talents. I would prefer 2 25-30 mpg game guards and 2 10-15 mpg game guards. I wouldn't want bums, but our 2012 team is perfect.
2012 mpg from guards
Scoop Jardine 25.2 mpg Sr.
Dion Waiters 24.1 mpg So.
Brandon Triche 22.5mpg Jr.
Michael Carter-Williams 10.3mpg Fr.

All guys were fresh and we had a great blend of NBA talent mixed with great NCAA role playing talent.

I agree though I think Cooney would be great as a 6th man playing high 20's mpg and changing momentum. Cooney is a heat check guy off the bench who when is hot can take over the game, but when is cold wouldn't be relied upon.

 

[TheCusian]

i didn't say that. you probably think i did but i'm sure you misread that post. i did say your posts are stupid because you keep putting words in people's mouths. you are the worst poster on this board for that reason.

There's only one of us insulting the other personally, so there's that.

 

[TheCusian]

if your two guard can't shoot or dribble, then yes, you can knock a coach for it

i'm acknowledging tradeoffs here. that's the whole point. we choose size over ball handling at the 2 guard. uuuccconnn (avoiding stupid filters) and louisville don't

Can't shoot or dribble. Your words. I think you meant were not as good at ball handling and shooting compared to the two guards UCONN has traditionally had in the past.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Here's the problem I have with the op's point. He claims our four year guards weren't good enough to win it all. Go back and watch the ohio state and michigan games. The main reason we were even in those games was because of Triche. Our lottery picks did not have good games. It can be argued that JB should of out the ball in tricked hands sooner both years, then we might of advanced.

Also it's frustrating that people seem to think guys like g and Cooney are finished products , when they are not. The op did a post a month ago how cooneys stats were all over the map this year and how he wasn't good in the ACC. Shabazz Napier wasn't a finishes product two years ago, in fact is stats in some way were worse than cooneys against major conference opponents. I'm not saying any of our guys compare to uconnn guys, but just because they do not, doesn't mean they won't improve in other areas they are stronger in. Also Cooney was far from the only one dimensional player on our roster. Virtually our entire lineup was this year. Heck cj fair was an all American, but the tournament made it look like deandre Daniels was the better player.

 

[Millhouse]

Can't shoot or dribble. Your words. I think you meant were not as good at ball handling and shooting compared to the two guards UCONN has traditionally had in the past.

you said you can't blame "a coach" for wanting size and elite athleticism. your words. not boeheim. a coach.

i responded to that.

 

[Millhouse]

Here's the problem I have with the op's point. He claims our four year guards weren't good enough to win it all. Go back and watch the ohio state and michigan games. The main reason we were even in those games was because of Triche. Our lottery picks did not have good games. It can be argued that JB should of out the ball in tricked hands sooner both years, then we might of advanced.

Also it's frustrating that people seem to think guys like g and Cooney are finished products , when they are not. The op did a post a month ago how cooneys stats were all over the map this year and how he wasn't good in the ACC. Shabazz Napier wasn't a finishes product two years ago, in fact is stats in some way were worse than cooneys against major conference opponents. I'm not saying any of our guys compare to uconnn guys, but just because they do not, doesn't mean they won't improve in other areas they are stronger in. Also Cooney was far from the only one dimensional player on our roster. Virtually our entire lineup was this year. Heck cj fair was an all American, but the tournament made it look like deandre Daniels was the better player.

oh come on

michigan he was 4 for 9, 11 points with the key play being his iffy charge

ohio state 4 for 10, 15 points

he did have 8 assists against michigan. 1 against OSU. but lets not go too crazy

our big backcourt had trouble making shots both years. 11-30 against OSU, 6-18 against Michigan, 12-32 against Dayton. the year before that scoop faltered

the last game of the year is a loss for all but one tournament team, i get that losing teams make less shots but i don't think triche's 8-19 shooting disproves much

god damnit do those box scores suck to look at - that marquette game, 7 free throws????

 

[Henny & Coke]

Here's the problem I have with the op's point. He claims our four year guards weren't good enough to win it all. Go back and watch the ohio state and michigan games. The main reason we were even in those games was because of Triche. Our lottery picks did not have good games. It can be argued that JB should of out the ball in tricked hands sooner both years, then we might of advanced.

Also it's frustrating that people seem to think guys like g and Cooney are finished products , when they are not. The op did a post a month ago how cooneys stats were all over the map this year and how he wasn't good in the ACC. Shabazz Napier wasn't a finishes product two years ago, in fact is stats in some way were worse than cooneys against major conference opponents. I'm not saying any of our guys compare to uconnn guys, but just because they do not, doesn't mean they won't improve in other areas they are stronger in. Also Cooney was far from the only one dimensional player on our roster. Virtually our entire lineup was this year. Heck cj fair was an all American, but the tournament made it look like deandre Daniels was the better player.

Shouldn't that help make the OP's point though?

That Triche could have a good game vs Michigan, but we still lose, doesn't that suggest he's not good/impactful enough?

If we win the games our lottery picks do well in (like MCW's incredible stat line vs Marquette in Elite 8 leading us to victory, while Triche went 3-10 fgs, 1-5 3pts, for 9 points) & lose the games our lottery picks do not perform well in (like when MCW played poorly against Michigan, even if Triche had a "good game") then doesn't that show the outsized impact our lottery picks have on the outcome of our games?

 

[OttoMets]

Also - a) Flynn is proof that JB will take a smaller PG ...

Boeheim's criteria have changed since 2006.

In fact, Flynn contributed to that change.

Either way, Flynn wouldn't be a Syracuse target in 2014.

 

[Cusefan0307]

oh come on

michigan he was 4 for 9, 11 points with the key play being his iffy charge

ohio state 4 for 10, 15 points

he did have 8 assists against michigan. 1 against OSU. but lets not go too crazy

our big backcourt had trouble making shots both years. 11-30 against OSU, 6-18 against Michigan, 12-32 against Dayton. the year before that scoop faltered

the last game of the year is a loss for all but one tournament team, i get that losing teams make less shots but i don't think triche's 8-19 shooting disproves much

god damnit do those box scores suck to look at - that marquette game, 7 free throws????

I agree with most of your points, just saying that even the most talented guys aren't immune to having bad games at the wrong time and that will cost you. kris Joseph and southerland were just as bad in those losses. Heck most people would of rather had Gary Harris and Keith Appling as their backcourt before uconns at the beginning of the season.

 

[OttoMets]

Reread your post again and reread the quoted part you respond to

our 2 guards are generally big guys who can somewhat shoot or dribble but not both.

most games cooney's not a good shooter. triche wasn't a good shooter. Devo was good and I acknowledged that right from the get go. for the millionth time Blake Griffin killed them

...

I'm not arguing your point, but for accuracy's sake, it was SU's tiny and offensive-minded guards -- not Blake Griffin -- who killed SU that day. The period that compelled Boeheim to switch to the strict guidelines we now lament culminated in that Oklahoma loss.

Tony Crocker dumped in a ton of points while Flynn and Devendorf wandered out toward the line, hands at their sides. If I recall, Flynn had a decent offensive game while Devendorf was something like 2-for-11 with the usual handful of turnovers. If the guards were going to be inconsistent on the offensive end, the thinking went, then they'd better not take so much off the table on defense.

I think Boeheim took things to an extreme (though I welcomed his changes after that season). One would think that ability to play zone and ability to play like a traditional guard in the half-court aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not arguing your point, but for accuracy's sake, it was SU's tiny and offensive-minded guards -- not Blake Griffin -- who killed SU that day. The period that compelled Boeheim to switch to the strict guidelines we now lament culminated in that Oklahoma loss.

Tony Crocker dumped in a ton of points while Flynn and Devendorf wandered out toward the line, hands at their sides. If I recall, Flynn had a decent offensive game while Devendorf was something like 2-for-11 with the usual handful of turnovers. If the guards were going to be inconsistent on the offensive end, the thinking went, then they'd better not take so much off the table on defense.

I think Boeheim took things to an extreme (though I welcomed his changes after that season). One would think that ability to play zone and ability to play like a traditional guard in the half-court aren't mutually exclusive.

i didn't look it up but i think griffin had 50 pts and 50 rebounds in the first half

 

[OttoMets]

I honestly want nobody playing 38 mpg unless they are Carmelo Anthony or NBA allstar type talents. I would prefer 2 25-30 mpg game guards and 2 10-15 mpg game guards. I wouldn't want bums, but our 2012 team is perfect.
2012 mpg from guards
Scoop Jardine 25.2 mpg Sr.
Dion Waiters 24.1 mpg So.
Brandon Triche 22.5mpg Jr.
Michael Carter-Williams 10.3mpg Fr.

All guys were fresh and we had a great blend of NBA talent mixed with great NCAA role playing talent.

I agree though I think Cooney would be great as a 6th man playing high 20's mpg and changing momentum. Cooney is a heat check guy off the bench who when is hot can take over the game, but when is cold wouldn't be relied upon.

Agree, except I think the shooter should start - tougher to catch a hot streak coming in off the bench.

27 minutes per guard (unless Sherman Douglas or Pearl Washington is the guard in question), start Cooney, substitute liberally. We saw how successful this could be during a 30-1 start in 2012, then we got away from it.

 

[OttoMets]

i didn't look it up but i think griffin had 50 pts and 50 rebounds in the first half

I think he had a huge game, but I remember a lot of the scoring coming after they built a quick lead on Crocker's open threes.

I know the Oklahoma strategy (like most teams' star-defense strategy) was to let Griffin "get his" but hold the other Sooners in check. Our guards came up small and we lost because of it.

 

[Millhouse]

I think he had a huge game, but I remember a lot of the scoring coming after they built a quick lead on Crocker's open threes.

I know the Oklahoma strategy (like most teams' star-defense strategy) was to let Griffin "get his" but hold the other Sooners in check. Our guards came up small and we lost because of it.

good memory - 3-12

guards really chucked it that game. 16-40 and that's with flynn going 9-16

 

[TheCusian]

i didn't say that. you probably think i did but i'm sure you misread that post. i did say your posts are stupid because you keep putting words in people's mouths. you are the worst poster on this board for that reason.

Hey Millhouse. Been thinking about this all day (that and the fact nobody stood up for me). I'm done here - I don't need the insults. Maybe I am the worst poster here.

I've been a Syracuse fan since I was 7. I'll be one till I'm 80. I appreciate Rocco, Anomander, countless others. Maybe I'll lurk a little to check in.

Go Cuse.

 

[swish7]

richard hamilton/khalid el amin
ben gordon/rashad anderson
kemba walker/jeremy lamb
shabazz napier/ryan boatright

We've been close but we haven't really put it together in the backcourt since 03. often have one but not the other

I said it multiple times after the game. UConn was basically us, but with two Ennises

 

[Pat Kelly]

2 years ago napier averaged 13 pts, 6 assists, and shot 35% from three

This year Ennis averaged 13 pts, 6 assist and shot 35% from three

I don't care what Uconn fans think of their players. Uconn fans are idiots.

Boatright is the difference between UConn and Syracuse.

His shooting percentage was worse than Ennis and Cooney and this is after losing one of the best guards in the country. They had a reason to be frustrated.